508-Fanatic Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 1955 Rolex GMT was $240. Inflation adjustment is $1 then = roughly $9 today... so the watch would cost $2160 USD. Now, adjust for increases in labor, technology and materials surely we cannot justify a nearly 4x increase without it largely being market driven demand. The same it would seem is happening with our reps, at a much quicker pace, no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 One of the reasons they can get away with selling at the prices that they do is that people pay so they produce.people have got used to paying ridiculous prices for luxury goods so in tern the makers of these luxury goods can raise their prices incrementally every year or various times throughout the year.if you're going to tell me that a stainless steel Rolex submariner is worth $8000 I have some swamp land in the Mohave Desert that I'd like to sell you.as I mentioned before in other posts we are paying for marketing, brand name and prestige. There is no doubt that Rolex is a quality product but in the same breath they are not worth their asking price. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 When you are dealing with luxury brands, the old algorithms of price based on cost of manufacturing and value go out the window. The luxury brands have their own cost/price ideas, and it probably has no basis in reality. This applies not just to watches but all luxury items.. Why can you buy a really nice high quality leather handbag at a good mall store for say 100.00 USD and a comparable LV bag is over 1000.00 USD? Is it really worth 10X? Of course not., but women fall all over themselves to purchase them. Same with watches. The 8k Rolex is not a great deal using the conventional cost/price algorithm., but we all know that isn't the case. Sometimes I believe that the marketing arms of the luxury brands companies set the prices based on what " The rich suckers out there " will pay for them. Their philosophy seems to indicate that if we price and item high enough, convince the public by marketing tactics that this is and exclusive item, and you have to buy this item to be part of the "in" crowd, it will sell like hot cakes. Another idea is to preserve the exclusivity of items, they need to price them high enough that "the great unwashed" masses can't afford to buy them. God Forbid that a society maven sees every cleaning lady or secretary toting a purse exactly like hers!! Now, we just couldn't have that could we darling!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Pretty sure you've seen this 1964 ad... $195 for a sub and yet serious argumentation was necessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 The underwater watch You could buy for about $39.95 back in 1969 was the Seiko 5 Sports, they cost 3-4 times as much nowadays:) http://www.thewatchsite.com/files/Catalogs/1969%20Seiko%20Sport%20Diver%20Catalog.pdf The yen exchange rate was 360Y per 1 USD That would put the Rol. without improvements but produced with new machinery within the $1000 range in comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I've heard it said the Submariner is the world's most expensive $500 watch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I've heard it said the Submariner is the world's most expensive $500 watch.+1 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
508-Fanatic Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 It's amazing - I am surprised by the value in the rep's to be honest given the absurd inflation in the prices. PS: Somebody buy the crap I'm selling in parts lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulza Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 This is exactly one of the reasons I love reps so much. The true value of these high end brands are closer to the rep price then the gen price. The price is artificially inflated ( just like the oil price was - controlled by cartels and monopolies) As nice as a gen is it's just not worth the price. Agree with beachcomber that it is supply and demand - this world is gone crazy. I hope reps get better and better. If you get e super rep with a good movement that can last years and years - that is very satisfying to me. The high prices of gens makes the brands seem somewhat pretentious which is a pity because they are good quality and have great design and history. In some respects wearing a good rep feels way better to me than wearing a gen ( I am probably in the minority here but it gives me a real kick) I also feels rocks to tell someone if they ask. Long live reps! +1 on Panarai153 comments too! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 In some respects wearing a good rep feels way better to me than wearing a gen ( I am probably in the minority here but it gives me a real kick) +1 on Panarai153 comments too! My 5513 brings me much more pleasure to wear than any other gen I have owned, partly becuase my last gen was a Red Sub and it really bothererd me to wear a watch that was worth more than my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resistor Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 My 5513 brings me much more pleasure to wear than any other gen I have owned, partly becuase my last gen was a Red Sub and it really bothererd me to wear a watch that was worth more than my car. Yeah, the amount of money sunk into just one gen watch used to (and still does, to an extent) bother me tremendously. I started out in the watch world with "affordable" gen watches then moved slowly to higher value pieces (some Breitlings, Omegas, etc) and just could not be comfortable with wearing and potentially damaging a $3000 watch. Sold most of the gens and bought cheaper watches and reps. Still have quite a few gens but I enjoy a $300 rep just as much, and probably even more since I don't worry about them so much. The mid-range watch industry has gone mad and been successful to date, but I think a market correction is not too far away for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I just found one of the pics I took of my Red just before I sold it. Oh, what a beauty, I was totally blown away by this watch, but I was so worried something would happen to it whenever I wore it our, now what good is that? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoneyBags Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) When you are dealing with luxury brands, the old algorithms of price based on cost of manufacturing and value go out the window. The luxury brands have their own cost/price ideas, and it probably has no basis in reality. This applies not just to watches but all luxury items.. Why can you buy a really nice high quality leather handbag at a good mall store for say 100.00 USD and a comparable LV bag is over 1000.00 USD? Is it really worth 10X? Of course not., but women fall all over themselves to purchase them. Same with watches. The 8k Rolex is not a great deal using the conventional cost/price algorithm., but we all know that isn't the case. Sometimes I believe that the marketing arms of the luxury brands companies set the prices based on what " The rich suckers out there " will pay for them. Their philosophy seems to indicate that if we price and item high enough, convince the public by marketing tactics that this is and exclusive item, and you have to buy this item to be part of the "in" crowd, it will sell like hot cakes. Another idea is to preserve the exclusivity of items, they need to price them high enough that "the great unwashed" masses can't afford to buy them. God Forbid that a society maven sees every cleaning lady or secretary toting a purse exactly like hers!! Now, we just couldn't have that could we darling!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And at the same time make those who want the brand name pay $400 for what could be junk inside. $7000 is too much money for you to spend on a the real thing but you want to promote the name nevertheless..You are still promoting a brand whose "value" you don't believe in. how is that logical? Why bother payiing so much for the name and Crown? The Submariner is the most expensive $500 watch for a reason. It does not cost that much to wear. In many case the SUB brings back more than paid for if kept for five years or longer and purchased slightly used from a TD.. When you are done with it . its like currency. Buy for $6000 sell for $5500, easily In scrap value the watch is worth $30.....TRUE value is what other people will PAY for it. and that is a whole other world that is on the "other" side of this world Edited February 3, 2015 by MoneyBags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoneyBags Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) I just found one of the pics I took of my Red just before I sold it. Oh, what a beauty, I was totally blown away by this watch, but I was so worried something would happen to it whenever I wore it our, now what good is that? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Should have kept that beauty if it's indeed a gen........ People are paying BIG money for RED Subs in any condition. $12k and going up... You cannot do much to a Rolex that cannot be repaired. I would not sorry about wearing one in any environment. They are made for that. But I would have put that beauty in a safe deposit box. It's value is increasing a lot. Edited February 3, 2015 by MoneyBags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 This is exactly one of the reasons I love reps so much. The true value of these high end brands are closer to the rep price then the gen price. The price is artificially inflated ( just like the oil price was - controlled by cartels and monopolies) As nice as a gen is it's just not worth the price. Agree with beachcomber that it is supply and demand - this world is gone crazy. I hope reps get better and better. If you get e super rep with a good movement that can last years and years - that is very satisfying to me. The high prices of gens makes the brands seem somewhat pretentious which is a pity because they are good quality and have great design and history. In some respects wearing a good rep feels way better to me than wearing a gen ( I am probably in the minority here but it gives me a real kick) I also feels rocks to tell someone if they ask. Long live reps! +1 on Panarai153 comments too! +1 I find myself entrenched deeper and deeper in the rep game, and covertly selling off my gens one at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoneyBags Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) +1 I find myself entrenched deeper and deeper in the rep game, and covertly selling off my gens one at a time. Legend, How much would the reps have to rise in price before you don't think they are worth it? $1000? $1500 There is a point where people will pause to send $$$ to China for a watch that may work for one year or ten years and have no intrinsic value at all, and have a few minor flaws. Now what if many of the rep businesses are shut down? A few escape and charge much higher prices,,,,,,, Whats a rep worth then? The pricing model is likely to bubble the rep game well before gens. There will always be peole who can afford the going rate for a gen. Always and as economies get better more high end stuff will sell. People are paying up to and more than 1/4 million for Gen Swiss hand made watches. $7000 is slumming in that area. Rolex will ALWAYS be there and there will always have people who will pay $6,7.8 9 10,000 for the least of them because that is exactly the history of the brand. Up up up go the prices and they raise all boats on the used side..... they sell every watch they make. ,No bubble there. But i am seeing some very high prices for Reps where some people who are trying to save money may pause before sending that $500 out there. A used five year old Rolex SUB at $5000 can be sold easily for $4300...So one is wearing a GEN for $700... a real Gen for $700 all in........Rolex..... It's like money in the bank. Scrap value is nothing.....MARKET VALUE is there in spades. The right Rolex watch can be worn for less than a great Gen!! Beqachcomber sold a SUB that is increasing in value exponentially...... The Red Submariners are in high demand for collectors..$15K and more Edited February 3, 2015 by MoneyBags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Precisely Mr Moneybags (pun fully intended) I am cashing in on my gens now, keeping the cash in the bank, and playing with reps which cost me substantially less. I never regarded my gens as "money on the wrist" and I bought them because I liked them. My collection went beyond $600k in value at one point and it has been going down since. I am contented to play with reps, and trade them off on a much smaller scale compared with trading my gen watches. Somehow I find it a lot more fun here. Having said that, I would agree that what you posted is logical and theoretically sound, if the worth of watches are measured in terms of pure monetary value. I collect watches as a hobby, from very low cost ones to some costing beyond $100k. I enjoy the rep game, imperfect as they are, and there are some gens in my collection I would not sell. A watch is something I enjoy wearing and glancing at on the wrist. It's highly personal and never for flaunting to another person. I guess there are just some experiences in life which cannot be justified by monetary value alone. Sent from Mars using tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbybbuser Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Agree with the statement above. Many of my friends are buying gen because they make a "profit" out of it. But actually the profit is lesser than what you would have gotten from bank deposit interest. Everybody is hoping their gen will be valuable like newman's daytona. Which is too far fetched IMHO. I would buy one or two gen though. Just because I love the model a lot and I can't find a decent rep for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoneyBags Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Agree with the statement above. Many of my friends are buying gen because they make a "profit" out of it. But actually the profit is lesser than what you would have gotten from bank deposit interest. Everybody is hoping their gen will be valuable like newman's daytona. Which is too far fetched IMHO. I would buy one or two gen though. Just because I love the model a lot and I can't find a decent rep for it. What bank is paying more than .25% short term interest. You buy a 2013/2014 Gen Rolex SUB today for $6000 from a TD on TRF. in five years you will get $6500 minimum . far more than any bank is paying in interest. PLUS you had the benefit of wearing the real thing. This works with Rolex SS Submariners and Daytonas. Not so much with precious metal watches. I bought a SUB for $6100 a couple months ago and was recently offered $5000 wholesale for it.I didnt sell it. I was just curious how much the watch REALLY cost me and when Rolex raises their prices as they do every year........My watch is raised with all boats. That is why I will never understand someone who has $7K to blow on a watch buying a $500 rep with flaws and has no value at all except to maybe another rep wearer who will want it for $200. Becasue it is the most faked watch in the world I would rather be one of the few with the GEN One may not MAKE money on a Rolex But they are wearing it for chump change if they can afford to park $6K awhile You could buy a TT Submariner 8 years ago for $6000 or less. What will that watch sell for today? Pateks, Pans, ADs I would get a rep if I wanted them. I would never spend that kind of money for a watch that would be much harder to move. Plus I don't see the value in a $45K watch Edited February 3, 2015 by MoneyBags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbybbuser Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Bank deposit over here is 8 percent per annum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoneyBags Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 One of the reasons they can get away with selling at the prices that they do is that people pay so they produce.people have got used to paying ridiculous prices for luxury goods so in tern the makers of these luxury goods can raise their prices incrementally every year or various times throughout the year.if you're going to tell me that a stainless steel Rolex submariner is worth $8000 I have some swamp land in the Mohave Desert that I'd like to sell you.as I mentioned before in other posts we are paying for marketing, brand name and prestige. There is no doubt that Rolex is a quality product but in the same breath they are not worth their asking price. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Market Value does not equal intrinsic value or scrap value....There is a lot of swamp land being sold and fake swamp land as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoneyBags Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Bank deposit over here is 8 percent per annum That is not a good thing in this global economic environment........Teen you are getting bit by major inflation....the value of money is down so the interest rate has to rise.Even more reason to buy something tangible. The value of your money is decreasing as interest rises. Economics 101. Edited February 3, 2015 by MoneyBags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Sent from outer space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 What bank is paying more than .25% short term interest. You buy a 2013/2014 Gen Rolex SUB today for $6000 from a TD on TRF. in five years you will get $6500 minimum . far more than any bank is ... Synchrony, CiT, GE and Ing are paying 1% on simple savings, and the national average right now is .6%, so, MOST banks are paying more than .25% Mr. MoneyBags. Then again, no savings account ever keeps up with inflation, and your account of making $500 on a $6000 watch is falling behind almost as quickly as stuffing cash in matress. Fortunately for most watches with real collector value appreciate far quicker than inflation, and your assumptions are incorrect. It just takes knowledge of the market and correct anticipation of the trends. Anyone buying up cheap vintage Tudor watches 10 years ago will have seen their average price go from under $600 to over $6000, with some examples well over $12,000. Buying new Rolex is not a real investment at it's inflated price unless you are going to keep it for 40 years, and people still think they are cool then. Seems you have still have trouble with reps, trouble with knowing what is actually happening around you, trouble using simple quotes, and trouble fitting in. How are those used Rolex, tired Vette, and tiny sized Harley D "investments" doing by the way? I'm sure your nephew will enjoy selling them, or running them into the ground when you are gone. Try not to be as condescending and insulting as your previous incarnation and you may get to stick around a little longer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Sent from outer space Yes. And apropos, as I believe Ken used to sell SMALL CHANGE purses made of genuine FROG skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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