A couple good '1016' project threads...

[automatico]

Here are a couple '1016' project threads from the past.  They may be of interest to anyone starting out on a '1016' project.  There are quite a few more if you search them out.  lhooq participated in some good ones.

The first one from January 2008 has lost the pics but there is some good info on it:

 

https://rwg.cc/topic/66391-a-few-pics-of-my-very-first-vintage-franken-project/?hl=%2B1016

 

btw, the 'Jimmythree' poster at the end of the thread is me.

"And to another member, who I will not name at this time.  He can come forward if he choses to.  He did an outstanding job with the case, bezel and crystal fitting."  This was me too (brag, brag).  I was 'Jimmythree' back then before I had to change my name after a server meltdown.

 

 

This thread is not very old and still has very good pictures:

 

https://rwg.cc/topic/167880-the-built-of-my-franken-rolex-explorer-i-ref-1016/#comment-1397861

 

 

 

 

[tomhorn]

My build is linked below in my signature. 1016's are a great first build project for people (along with DJ's). A lot of different ways to do them, from cheap to expensive. 

[alligoat]

Here's one that I did back 6-7 years ago. It was a pretty easy build and not expensive- as I recall it ran around $500.

started with a 1600 DJ case from Sheartime- $132

jmb bezel and a service T22

Dial from LHOOQ- relumed by goins

600 crown- gen, less than $50

Clark hands- good lume

swiss eta that I'd picked up for $80 back in the day when they were cheap (2007 or so)

Mary's 7836 bracelet

It's WR and glows well at night. Two thing I like in a rep build!

I realize the 2824 is a fast beat but I just think of it as an upgrade. Never drilled the lugholes- too close for comfort! The minute hand is a tad short, but it's close enough for me.

There's probably a movement ring in there also- the #2 ring from raffles possibly or one I had lying around.

[automatico]

"My build is linked below in my signature."

 

A lot of good info.  I should have snagged one of those dials.

 

 

 

"Here's one that I did back 6-7 years ago."

 

Looks good!  Nice dial too. 

Looks a lot like the one I finished a few weeks ago.  Mine has a JMB case, average dial, and same bracelet.

 

 

 

"Never drilled the lugholes - too close for comfort!"

 

This is a problem with a lot of these projects.  Genuine 16xx cases do not have much metal on the lug tips, JMB cases might have a little more.  I have seen pictures of genuine 1016 watches with holes pretty close to the lug tops too, probably polished too much.

 

 

 

"...as I recall it ran around $500."

 

Mine ended up about the same price:

Dial from 'Stilty'...$60 more or less iirc (been a while, about 10 years).

JMB case...can not remember exactly so I'll make it $200. 

Combo 2824/2846 movement...$100 more or less.

Mary 7836 folded bracelet...$65 iirc.

Spring bars, gaskets etc...$15.

ST hands...around $15.

Replica crown...$10.

Case spacer...$5

Aggravation…$100.  

 

 

Btw, how much were the JMB cases 3 years ago?

[JSebWC]

This thread needs more 1016



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[Drummania]

Jmb case
Vietnam tropical dial
ETA 2840 no date low beat movement


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Cartel 1016 with Clark crystal


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[Lo']

Hi all, been away from this great forum for too long therefore here I am back again.

First of all thanks a lot for sharing extensive knowledge on this post. Since I am currently waiting for a cheap 1016 build to reach my door (A2824, Yuki dial and hands, reshaped 16200 case, Clark T21), I'd like to gather your thoughts on the following:

1) Yuki dial: It's the matte dial with white lume version, I'd like to have relumed and "vintagized". Who would you confide the task to?

2) Yuki hands: Not the worst I've seen but not perfect either. Back in the day I had found TC's hands to be very good with the exception of the minute hand not being quite long enough. Did anyone succeed in finding something better?

3) Case is not a problem since I have a JMB V2 with custom markings and, alternatively, an old 16200 which had been reshaped to exact measurements by Akira, using LH's gen 1016 as a reference.

4) Movement: I'd like to swap the chinese clone with something more reliable. I can't remember for the love of me what's the position of Yuki dial's feet is. I'd hate to have to resort to glueing it to the movement so, any info on that will be welcome.

Thanks in advance, feels good to be back

 

L. 

 

[automatico]

First off...my advice is not worth much, if anything.

 

Yuki dial...be very careful having it 'vintagized'...this is when many good dials go bad.  The 1016 dial is a hard one to 'relume' because it has markers and numbers.  Numbers are hard to do. 

I have a Yuki '1016' dial and it has rolex 1530/1570 dial feet but two versions of Eta '1016' dials are shown on the Yuki website.  Rolex 1530/70 feet are at 30 and 57 minutes.

 

Yuki hands...I have used them with pretty good luck.  Some of the 'gen spec' examples had to be broached to fit.  I use ST hands a lot but I am not very particular and what suits me may not pass inspection for others.

 

Your case choices are fine imho.

 

Movement...I used a swisseta 2824/2846 'combo' movement in my JMB '1016' and it worked out all right.  Had to go with the slimmer 2824 plate set because the case was made for a 2824 and I used 2846 running gear for a slower beat rate.  A hassle for sure but it fits the case and runs Ok.

The 2846 is basically a lower grade movement and they are subject to running errors but they work better than Asian clones imho.  Everyday wear is fine but if you rapidly spin it around in a tight circle (with dial up or down) to 'spin wind' it, the movement may gain a few seconds.  Most movements are prone to gain a bit when this is done but lower grade movements gain more.  I have a cheapo '5513' with a Seagull ST16 and I can spin it around for a couple minutes and it may gain 5 or 6 seconds.  Many lower grade movements will gain time when they are getting low on mainspring reserve too.

 

Q...Why spin the watch around to wind it?  Why not just manually wind it?

A...Because I can 'spin wind' the watch without unscrewing the delicate replica crown.  'Delicate' = subpar threads/gasket on crown.  I rethreaded the JMB case and installed an older style ST 6mm case tube but used a replica crown and these crowns usually only have a few dozen 'ons' and 'offs' in 'em.  The spring and hex clutch in the crown tube are not very reliable either and they often go bad.  

[tomhorn]

6 hours ago, Lo' said:

Hi all, been away from this great forum for too long therefore here I am back again.

First of all thanks a lot for sharing extensive knowledge on this post. Since I am currently waiting for a cheap 1016 build to reach my door (A2824, Yuki dial and hands, reshaped 16200 case, Clark T21), I'd like to gather your thoughts on the following:

1) Yuki dial: It's the matte dial with white lume version, I'd like to have relumed and "vintagized". Who would you confide the task to?

2) Yuki hands: Not the worst I've seen but not perfect either. Back in the day I had found TC's hands to be very good with the exception of the minute hand not being quite long enough. Did anyone succeed in finding something better?

3) Case is not a problem since I have a JMB V2 with custom markings and, alternatively, an old 16200 which had been reshaped to exact measurements by Akira, using LH's gen 1016 as a reference.

4) Movement: I'd like to swap the chinese clone with something more reliable. I can't remember for the love of me what's the position of Yuki dial's feet is. I'd hate to have to resort to glueing it to the movement so, any info on that will be welcome.

Thanks in advance, feels good to be back

 

L. 

 

1) PBdad did my 1016 dial and Cwazy did my 5514. Unfortunately, both of them are long gone. Only other person I have used for lume was Vac, who did my 3717. 

2) I went with the TC hands. I had a set of Clarks to use originally, but got tipped off to the TC hands and swapped at the last minute. In one of your posts on the subject from 2015, you landed on the Helenarou hands as a viable option.

3) Not sure there is a question here. I always thought the gen 160xx cases were better that the 162xx cases for a 1016, but if you've had the latter re-shaped, then I would use it myself.

4) If you go with the 16200, then you could use the SH3135, or ETA 2824/Selita SW200 (granted, incorrect beat rates though). I think JMB was also recommending the Felsa 4000 as an alternative in his case, but you'd be gluing the dial to the movement. IIRC, mymanmatt said the ETA 2789 would fit in the JMB case. You can get the Yuki dial with ETA feet. Unfortunately, the 2846 I used won't work for you.

 

Good luck!

[HaydenM]

I'll throw mine in the ring

Was a great first watch build and they were very popular when I built mine. Nowadays people are lucky enough to be able to pick one up second hand if they decide against a build,

[Lo']

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:34 PM, automatico said:

First off...my advice is not worth much, if anything.

 

 Rolex 1530/70 feet are at 30 and 57 minutes.

Yuki hands...I have used them with pretty good luck.  Some of the 'gen spec' examples had to be broached to fit.  I use ST hands a lot but I am not very particular and what suits me may not pass inspection for others.

Movement...I used a swisseta 2824/2846 'combo' movement in my JMB '1016' and it worked out all right.  Had to go with the slimmer 2824 plate set because the case was made for a 2824 and I used 2846 running gear for a slower beat rate.  A hassle for sure but it fits the case and runs Ok.

The 2846 is basically a lower grade movement and they are subject to running errors but they work better than Asian clones imho.  Everyday wear is fine but if you rapidly spin it around in a tight circle (with dial up or down) to 'spin wind' it, the movement may gain a few seconds.  Most movements are prone to gain a bit when this is done but lower grade movements gain more.  I have a cheapo '5513' with a Seagull ST16 and I can spin it around for a couple minutes and it may gain 5 or 6 seconds.  Many lower grade movements will gain time when they are getting low on mainspring reserve too.

Thanks a lot for the highlights on this. Very useful. Those hands will have to do for the moment. I was hoping that something better would have been popping up since the last time I checked back in 2015.

Quote

Q...Why spin the watch around to wind it?  Why not just manually wind it?

A...Because I can 'spin wind' the watch without unscrewing the delicate replica crown.  'Delicate' = subpar threads/gasket on crown.  I rethreaded the JMB case and installed an older style ST 6mm case tube but used a replica crown and these crowns usually only have a few dozen 'ons' and 'offs' in 'em.  The spring and hex clutch in the crown tube are not very reliable either and they often go bad.  

This too is a very useful piece of advice I'll have to take in consideration. Thanks a lot.

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:45 PM, tomhorn said:

1) PBdad did my 1016 dial and Cwazy did my 5514. Unfortunately, both of them are long gone. Only other person I have used for lume was Vac, who did my 3717. 

2) I went with the TC hands. I had a set of Clarks to use originally, but got tipped off to the TC hands and swapped at the last minute. In one of your posts on the subject from 2015, you landed on the Helenarou hands as a viable option.

3) Not sure there is a question here. I always thought the gen 160xx cases were better that the 162xx cases for a 1016, but if you've had the latter re-shaped, then I would use it myself.

4) If you go with the 16200, then you could use the SH3135, or ETA 2824/Selita SW200 (granted, incorrect beat rates though). I think JMB was also recommending the Felsa 4000 as an alternative in his case, but you'd be gluing the dial to the movement. IIRC, mymanmatt said the ETA 2789 would fit in the JMB case. You can get the Yuki dial with ETA feet. Unfortunately, the 2846 I used won't work for you.

 

Good luck!

1) Therefore what you're basically telling me is that there actually is no good modder on RWG? This is not good...

2) Yes, thanks for digging that up for me Tom. Helena's hand looked a tad better than the others but TC's also were quite good. As per my previous reply to Automatico I was hoping that in the meantime something new would have emerged from the murky waters of the replicas world; apparently not.

3) I should check my old threads on here because I'm not sure whether my case was based on a 160xx rather than a 162xx.

4) Thanks for the pointers. I'll check what case was used for my first build and revert accordingly.

-edit-

So after looking around for a bit here's what I have found in an old post: "...After a long brainstorming session with both LHOOQ and Akira I chose to go 'franken' and was lucky enough to immediately find a (mint!) 16200 case..." So this is definitely a reshaped 12xx case.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Lo'

[tomhorn]

1 hour ago, Lo' said:

1) Therefore what you're basically telling me is that there actually is no good modder on RWG? This is not good...

Well, Cwazy was on RWI ...  

I've heard that misiekped does lume here in the US although I haven't used him personally for lume. Have used him for movement service and builds, and he's great. However, since I notice you are across the pond, I'd go with Domi based on the reviews I've seen of his work.

[Lo']

 Hello again, sorry for the late and, as such, uninteresting reply but things have been kinda hectic back here as of lately, due to my son's graduation from high school, work, burocracy and whatnot...

Back on track. The watch finally arrived. The case is not half bad once I have replaced the bezel with one of JMB's (correct shape and height), the caseback with a (correctly) flat one and the T21 with a gen Superdome from my "box-o'-stuff". 

The dial is Yuki's standard with a decent lume. The triangle is a bit small although coherent with those which can be found on rail dialed 1016s, therefore not a real teller. The coronet is not terrible, the SCOC font is a tad off but not a big issue, at least in my eye.

I don't like Yuki's hand very much, especially the second one which appears too short and almost truncated. I have checked it against Helena's and the latter are definitely better. The real issue here is that my watchmaker's skillz are sub-par, I have tried replacing hands or recasing a movement before and it ended in tears every time. I will try to get in touch with Domi and see if he manages to take the job...

[automatico]

Looks good! 

 

Just now looked at my JMB '1016'...the minute hand almost touches the minute markers and the second hand covers about .5mm of the marker.

The minute markers are a hair shorter than yours.

The hands are from ST.

 

Most of the aftmkt mercedes hands are made for 5512/13/1680 with 26 or 26.5mm dials so they might be a bit short on 1016 projects.  I have a set of nos 1016 tritium hands somewhere but do not want to hunt them out right now to measure them (no telling where they are).  They may have sent submariner hands anyway (early to mid 1990s).

 

I wore the '1016' for a few weeks after I got it together but parked it and have not worn it since.  It seemed to run Ok considering that the 'combo' movement was made up using parts from two different beat rate movements. 

First it had a regular clasp hollow mid link replica '78360', then a 'Mary 7836'.  One good thing about these watches is you can go from 'early vintage' to 'late vintage' just by changing bracelet types.  I'll probably go with the '78360' next time around because the '7836' is on an F-stein '5512.'  I changed the connecting link on the '7836' (the mid link that connects to the spring bars) to the proper rounded type to make it look a little better, it came with 'figure 8' connecting links.

I like straps too but hot humid weather is rough on leather.  Never cared much for NATO type straps.  The case has no 'lug notes' so a bracelet is probably the better choice.

 

Lug notes? 

[Lo']

3 hours ago, automatico said:

Looks good! 

 

Just now looked at my JMB '1016'...the minute hand almost touches the minute markers and the second hand covers about .5mm of the marker.

The minute markers are a hair shorter than yours.

The hands are from ST.

 

Most of the aftmkt mercedes hands are made for 5512/13/1680 with 26 or 26.5mm dials so they might be a bit short on 1016 projects.  I have a set of nos 1016 tritium hands somewhere but do not want to hunt them out right now to measure them (no telling where they are).  They may have sent submariner hands anyway (early to mid 1990s).

 

I wore the '1016' for a few weeks after I got it together but parked it and have not worn it since.  It seemed to run Ok considering that the 'combo' movement was made up using parts from two different beat rate movements. 

First it had a regular clasp hollow mid link replica '78360', then a 'Mary 7836'.  One good thing about these watches is you can go from 'early vintage' to 'late vintage' just by changing bracelet types.  I'll probably go with the '78360' next time around because the '7836' is on an F-stein '5512.'  I changed the connecting link on the '7836' (the mid link that connects to the spring bars) to the proper rounded type to make it look a little better, it came with 'figure 8' connecting links.

I like straps too but hot humid weather is rough on leather.  Never cared much for NATO type straps.  The case has no 'lug notes' so a bracelet is probably the better choice.

 

Lug notes? 

Lug notes?

It might be just me but I find the 1016-nato strap combo awful. Straps are ok but bracelet is definitely much better, especially in summer.

[Lo']

Small update: I got in touch with SSteel. The 1016 is going away within the end of the current week to undergo a complete overhaul. Will open a new thread on this to show off the outcome of a new project I look forward to.


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[thecloudhopper]

A few pictures of mine.

Currently looking for some more inspiration and Gen parts as I am not 100 percent happy with it yet.






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[Lo']

Nice piece you’ve got there. What irks me a bit (just an uneducated guess), however is the gilt that has been used on all the dial markings except the “Space Dweller” bit. To my (very limited) knowledge there are no gilt-dialed SDs, much less bi-colored ones.That said the triangle shape and height look good, fonts do not seem off (at least in my eye), numbers and indices are ok. A couple of shots of both sides would help getting an idea of the lugs shape and of the bezel and caseback shape and height.
As far as I know the best bezel out there is Jmb’s. This part alone can drastically change the watch’s overall look thus making it more coherent with gen. Caseback is quite important too as those in gen pieces are very flat and almost flush with the middle case.
Another fundamental part is the crystal: vintage ones (50s to 60s) generally will require a Superdome, while more recent pieces (from 70s forward) will require a flatter crystal (T21 if memory serves).
Hands: TCs are amongst the best Mercedes sets According to me, Helenarou’s also are quite good, unless you can source gen that is.
Finer details would concern movement which should be low-beat on older pieces and hacking on models replicating pieces from the 1970s onward.
This is more or less what I know (or believe I know) about this fascinating watch. For more-in-depth infos (and much more accurate than mine), you could use the search function on here and look for any 1016-related post from my good friend LHOOQ and BLUE, which are the two ops I deem the most knowledgeable on the argument, bar none.
Hth, enjoy this great place and its friendly people.


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Edited August 1, 2018 by Lo'
this=thus...

[thecloudhopper]

Thank you for the response.  The information you provided is very much appreciated.  I will definitely get some more pictures up when I return home.  I pretty much look at any and all posts regarding the 1016 so that I can gather more and more information to hopefully achieve a build I am happy with.  

 

From what I can remember,

case: JMB v2

dial: Whoppy dial

 

Any recommendations on a decent rep band?

[Lo']

Thank you for the response.  The information you provided is very much appreciated.  I will definitely get some more pictures up when I return home.  I pretty much look at any and all posts regarding the 1016 so that I can gather more and more information to hopefully achieve a build I am happy with.  
 
From what I can remember,
case: JMB v2
dial: Whoppy dial
 

You’re welcome GH.
Dials-wise, and again if memory serves, the best out there are (or used to be when I still was in the know on such things): gen, Whoopy, Ingod44, Ndt, Yuki and so on. Mbk’s stuff used to be pretty lousy, Trusty’s looked great in pics but would be quite deceiving in real. Of course there also was Phong but he was pretty hard to deal with and insanely overpriced, with no guarantee whatsoever that one would ultimately get something worth the money he’d shelled. Helena being more centered on Submariners did not at the time offer a 1016 dial... can’t remember any other modded/td worth mentioning right now.
Jmb’s V2 is very good, I still have one stashed somewhere which I kept because back then J would offer custom engravings. Mine therefore bears a correct “1016” on one side and a relevant serial number, matching the production year on the inside of the caseback, on the other. Then again Jmb’s caseback is flat as gen. I think that a gen service dial on a Jmb case would definitely be a great combo.
I wonder whether Rolojack is still active on the forums, his were some of the most gorgeous 101x and 55xx builds I have ever seen... indistinguishable from gen, at least per the pictures I saw.

[thecloudhopper]

I will look up some of the Rolojack builds.  I am intrigued.  

 

Best,

Leon

 

[JSebWC]

JMB + YUKI


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[thecloudhopper]

Love that this thread is seeing some action.




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[Lo']

JMB + YUKI


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Yay!!


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[lhooq]

Hi, everyone.  Lo' emailed me about this thread, so I just wanted to jump in and say hello.  I wish I could post a few photos of my old pieces, but unfortunately I still haven't gotten my picture-hosting situation sorted out!  Rest assured, I still have all of them.  Never gonna give them up.

 

I did make a revision to one of the builds--specifically, the one that used a Datejust 16203 case, genuine dial, and Tudor Sub hands.  Why?  Here's the interesting bit: A few months ago, I had the pleasure of meeting jmb.  I had a business trip to Dallas, and I'd always wanted to meet all of my Texan friends from this forum.  Unfortunately, the timing with alligoat didn't work out, but jmb was kind enough to invite me for a home-cooked meal (brisket!) and a tour of his incredibly interesting workshop.  I had a great time and learned a lot, too.  Let me tell you: When you order a case from jmb, he's not just pushing a couple of buttons.  It gets very involved and fiddly, but the CNC engraving process was a thrill to see in motion.  

 

So in addition to the food and the conversation, I also got a fresh, new, engraved jmb case as a gift.  And that's where I transplanted the innards of Build #3.  

 

(Hmm.  This should really be the part where I show the pretty pictures.  Please send suggestions for services that will anonymously host a couple of pics.  No adult sites, please.)

 

Long story short: jmb really is the only game in town for a proper 1016 lookalike that won't break the bank.  Plus, the man is a gent.  I look forward to my next trip to Dallas.  

Edited August 6, 2018 by lhooq