Nebakanezzar Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 You dont seem to get it do you what we are asking the dealers to do is just tell US the truth, if it is mineral glass then call it that, if it is Saphire then we all know it is synthetic because that is what it is, and if it is a chiss/swinesa ETA then it is an ETA on the other hand if it is an asian movement running at 28800 then we will be happy if it is advertised as that. If ford advertised a V8 but you got a V6 you would be Pi**ed wouldent you, unless when you read between the lines you half expect to get a V6 when it is advertised as a V8? please show me where a dealer has labeled a movement as swiss ETA and it has turned out to be asian copy? all the dealers label asian copies as asian ETA or Asian swiss ETA copy, or something of the like with Asian clearly in it...there have been only 1 or 2 insidences of this not being the case, and those the dealers said they were miss informed and made things right. I have not scene a issue where a rep listed as having a saphire crystal (Saphire, not "synthetic" saphire, or "ultimate" saphire or "prefect" saphire...simply Saphire) not being saphire...angin the one exception to this being the domed crystals, and agin the dealers were miss informed, not lying.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvt Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 >>>please show me where a dealer has labeled a movement as swiss ETA and it has turned out to be asian copy?<<< It is COMMONLY done all the time sadly. As I mentioned the old facotry Bond SMP was widley advertised as having a genuine swiss ETA 2892. Now I could see labeling it that even if it was, in fact, made in an Asian ETA facotry. But what was delivered was a pure copy, nothing at all "ETA" about it. It was decpetion and lies, pure and simple. Same can be said for various Unitas movements, often if not always labeled as Swiss or "genuine" when again there is nothing genuione about them, they are simply copies. The loist goes on when you start looking at the details, things like "genuine AR" when in fact there is no AR, Saphire versus mineral and all of that... all commonly lied about. I have no problem with a watch having an asian movement or what have you, I just want to know what I am buying. If you tell me a watch has a genuine ETA 2892 and then give me s watch with a "seagull" copy in it you have lied to me just as much as telling me you were selling me a gen Rolex and then sending a fake. it is exactly the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I wrote ETA not Swiss ETA, and i am refering to text like this Asia Copy Eta 2824-2 Automatic movement, Steel Movement Holder, Antimagnetic cover, 28800bph I doupt that not one part of this movement bears any resembelance to a 2824 wether made in china or on the moon and have a look here so is that an ETA 2892???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) I wrote ETA not Swiss ETA, and i am refering to text like this Asia Copy Eta 2824-2 Automatic movement, Steel Movement Holder, Antimagnetic cover, 28800bph I doupt that not one part of this movement bears any resembelance to a 2824 wether made in china or on the moon and have a look here so is that an ETA 2892???????? I wasent around back in the day of that SMP..although from what I read, I thought it was a prized rep? As far as this new "Asia Copy Eta 2824-2 Automatic movement" it has Asian in it...once you see Asian....you are on your own...Asian means "buyer beware". why would you even consideri buying a "Asia Copy Eta 2824-2 Automatic movement"? because you are a cheap ass! and cheap asses generaly get what they pay for... you buy it to save a few $$, when you could get a well known good one for a few $$ more, you are on your own...and what you get you get...dont come back crying to me... that is the reality of this hobby. Edited January 20, 2007 by Nebakanezzar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 that is the reality of this hobby. ...and what about that 2892 on Wo-Mart? Are you quietly ignoring it in the hope that it'll go away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 ...and what about that 2892 on Wo-Mart? Are you quietly ignoring it in the hope that it'll go away? link please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 why would you even consideri buying a "Asia Copy Eta 2824-2 Automatic movement"? because you are a cheap ass! I think personal insults are going a bit too far, what doyou know about me, however this is about watches not me, i think that a lot of people here have bought copys of ETA knowing ly and had them work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leonado Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 And then there is a male dealer who goes by a woman's name all the while claiming that he is unluckyyy (not luckyyy).... just a collector not really a dealer Boggles the mind L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 link please Read what we are writing and you will find it Also i dont think that Pug started tis post for a pi**ing match between me and you on topic or not but to highlight a problem. we have shown you examples of what we mean and if youlook you will find lots more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 link please http://www.wo-mart.com/product_info.php?cP...products_id=427 This was in FXRandy's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I think personal insults are going a bit too far, what doyou know about me, however this is about watches not me, i think that a lot of people here have bought copys of ETA knowing ly and had them work well. not an insult, and i apologize if you took offense. I, infact am quite interested in this watch (because I am a cheap ass)...I am just not going to be the first "sucker" to get it...but if I was to be the first one to get it, and it was a dud, I would have no one else to blame but myself because it is clearly labeled as an Asian movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighDef Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Yes, but I also have the blind ignorance to think I can make a difference. We let them do this and it is getting worse. Beginmariner? That's no ETA movement, yet the mail from Josh said "Due to the current serious shortage of swiss movt, I have called in 100pcs of Swiss Eta 2836-2 complete watches to salvage the swiss 2836-2 new movt to cope with my daily demands of my sales in daydate and datejust. The left behind swiss cases with sapphire crystal, i have install with Asian Eta 2813, 21600bph movt and is now offering these at special free shipping price of USD 108/-" ETA-2813? wtf? How many noobs bought these thinking they were getting a slow-beat ETA? Yes, I bought 2 of this so called "Asian ETA 2813" from Josh, actually it is the Chinese made DG 2813-S2 and 28,800bph. As much as I aggree with yuo Pugs, but do you really think that dealers will change thier website info just for us members. We are only a few when compared to the outside customer of our dealers. The best thing to do here is to help each other pointing out misrepesentations by dealers of thier watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 DO NOT ALLOW THIS THREAD TO BECOME PERSONAL! TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I do infact, because there are infact different types/grades of bottled water all labeld as water...some is spring water, some is distiled water, some has additives ect. yes, but they are all water. there is no issue around truth in advertising, and there is no intent to mislead. but this is not the real world. the reality of this world is, this is an underground criminal activity..dealing with people of a different culture who speak a different language... thats my point exactly Pug, here on this forum, you need to understand that Asian in the discription of a movement means not swiss. I am sure he does... but not everyone does. I mean just look at the questions that arose from asian eta 28-- ... when i first read it i asked myself wtf is that? but common Pug and fess up, you see asian in the dicription of a movement on a $150 chinese rep... from what I have read here, we arent even sure the true Swiss ETA reps are truly Swiss ETA. the reason being the movement has to be put together in switzerland to be a true Swiss ETA, and it is thought these movements are put together in china...(please correct me if I am wrong on this) this one gets me too, which goes to the point i.e. truth in advertisising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 25 Members: fxrandy, kenberg, TwoTone, retep, HighDef, eddhead, gr81, gwalsh, robertk, elprimerozen, alligoat, hambone, gioarmani, In Absentia, sjako, SportsterRider, mintaka, BONDEN, Nebakanezzar, Usil, zing, leonado, nonskeder, tvt, gibi Pug you got a lot of people interested in this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Ok, this is my last post. Along with being a cheap ass, I am also a lazy ass (bad combination ) so I am going to assume you feel this wo-mart watch has a Asian movement (I am not informed enough to tell). My point is this, you guys are complaining about our trusted dealer “lying” to us. I say they don’t lie at all. 90% of the time we get that they advertise. If you see a watch labeled Asian ETA movement that is half the price as the one labeled Swiss ETA, and you expect anything other than a lesser quality movement, you are fooling yourself. The other 10%, well [censored] happens, and they generally make it right. I am not sure I would lump Paul in with our “trusted” dealers. It is well known the quality of Paul’s watches is generally not as good as those offered by Andrew or josh or Angus or Eddie or TTK or PT, so why do people buy from Paul? Because he sells a lower priced product. If you choose to buy from Paul and get a dud, it is your own damn fault! Rule of thumb, If the description of a movement says Asian in it, it means buyer beware. If you see a crystal advertised as anything other than Sapphire, it aint gonna be sapphire…but to be doubly sure, always ask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I love this thread. A long time ago i figured out that the advertising was BS. I didn't care since I was buying forgeries. I solved the dilemna by adding the following on everything advertised: "like". for example: like saphire, like eta, etc. . I am much less anal about the movement, with some exceptions. As long as the movement works I'm a happy camper. As neil pointed out, to me 1:1 means size....period. 1:1 should only be referred to for dimensions. I applaud you guys who want perfection in advertising. If you can accomplish it here, it will be the model for the rest of the world....and I don't mean the rep world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Ok, this is my last post. Along with being a cheap ass, I am also a lazy ass (bad combination ) so I am going to assume you feel this wo-mart watch has a Asian movement (I am not informed enough to tell). See we can even help you out by stopping you being fooled by that bad adverising of a 2892, by the way i have one and it works like a dream, i would be happy if all our watches had seagul ST18s in them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 all in all i think are Reps very good watches for price let´s think about what we can get for $200-$250 if we can´t buy Reps from Asia... look in Europe or in USA or elsewhere what watches you can get for this money Festina or Armani with quarz movement? and mechanical? price for a simple ETA 2824 watches begins at $300... and looks :yucky: price for unitas 6497/98 watches begins at $400 (with standard movement - none decorated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 all in all i think are Reps very good watches for price You are missing the point. What pugs is saying is that we are being lied to about what we are actually buying. And i`m agreeing with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 You are missing the point. What pugs is saying is that we are being lied to about what we are actually buying. And i`m agreeing with him. i am not interested what the dealers say i am only interested what i see and what i know we are all have the knowledge to knows what we buy... important is that we get good watches for price. i am also agree with Pug and know what he means. But what will we do? If you buy a $200 watch and it hasn´t genuine eta 2892 but a seagul 2892. What will you do? Will you ask the seller: "He you get me a fu**g [censored] watch for my money?" He will ask: "Ok! Go in germany to your jewelery and look if you can find a genuine ETA 2892 watch."... ETA 2892 watches begins at $1.000 i know the problematic of terms like "genuine" "swiss made" "sapphire" "solid 14k" "tripple wrapped" etc etc etc but please don´t forget, that this watches also with none swiss made movement, none sapphire, none solid 14k, none tripple wrapped also a good watch for the price... for a European or a US buyer of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) I absolutely agree Pug, and I am glad someone has said it who is not in a position to be noob bashed or some other rediculous method of slander that oddly seems unpleasantly common on forums the world over... I see lots of rationalizations as to how bad other markets are, how we really know what they are saying, how it doesn't even really matter... I don't agree with any of that... It's all a slippery slope that ends up in Ebay sales marketing reps as gens and =sites that sell 100% accurate 31 jewel Italian reps at $2000 a pop. I also agree we are here to protect ourselves and keep this game honest (honor amongst thieves). If we don't do that, we are what replica center says we are (and disconcertingly close to what replicacenter is). What does it matter as long as the hands go round? It matters... it matters to the tune of hundreds of dollars... if it doesn't really matter, how about our dealers price all their watches at the lowest common denomiator, the asian 21j... how does that strike? After all it doesn't matter, and you can't honestly charge more for things that don't matter right? That's a scam right? That's not what we support right? We all know all the details? Really? We don't have threads by experienced, veteran members asking questions about these issues? Missleading isn't missleading if it's possible to research the truth behind it? I am sorry that doesn't hold water and nitrous passes the laugh test better... Hell if we have to send one to The Zigmeister to find out the truth, that says something right there. I agree there is a line to be crossed between marketing (ultimate, best, noobmariner) and straight up lying (Lemania, Sythetic Saphire, Solid Gold). Someone brought up infomercials and creative advertsising... they always have fine print or disclaimers... some dealers at least have the disclaimer at the bottom of the page that "water resistant" doesn't really mean squat and is not warranted in any way. If dealers wanted to put asterisks next to ETA, Saphire, Gold and at the bottom of the page follow up with "well not really" then at least I could give them that. Let's not forget we are not the only ones that shop those pages... and before anyone says we only need to protect ourselves take a gander at the ebay scam section and explain to me exactly which members of which forum we are protecting there... It's worse elsewhere? You could be more ripped off? Ok... tell you what, I will rape you in the a** and then tell you about how at least I gave you a reach around, but in some places you don't even get that. We friends? I don't think so. Other places are not our "Trusted Dealers" and so not in any way what we are talking about. If all I have to do to be acceptable is find someone worse than I am, then I am putting way too much effort into life. No honor amongst thieves? Anyone who says that please put your hand up high when you offer a watch in the member sale section... then count how many seconds it takes for someone hot little finger to hit "Chargeback" in their paypal account. Can we make a difference? Can we influence our dealers being such a small portion of the market? I don't know. But there is an old saying about being part of the problem and part of the solution and while I don't think for second my vote will swing a presidential ellection, you sure don't see me sitting on my butt come voting night. And think about it long and hard... our dealers put an awful lot of effort and time into the forum and forum members all things considered for a group that doesn't make a difference... in sheer numbers I can believe we don't account for much more than a drop in the bucket, but in terms of higher end rep sale (which, just like in the gen world is where more profit is) I think we are a decently loud voice... I seem to recall stories of Paul swearing off rep forums and saying he didn't need em... then somehow comming back... if the forums decide part of being a "trusted" dealer means that people can "trust" what you say to be the truth, then I think indeed we might well have leverage. Pug I thank you for saying what needs to be said and I hope it will make some difference. I personally have been pretty lucky overall and gotten mostly watches that are really what I thoght they would be (and I mean thought without having to research a buttload to decipher a term that already has an established meaning as something else) but the more weird terms get thrown around the less comfortable I feel and the more devalued I see places like rep forums being... Remember... slippery sloaps get steep fast... the best way is to not set foot on one in the first place... Edited January 21, 2007 by Devedander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 but this is not the real world. the reality of this world is, this is an underground criminal activity..dealing with people of a different culture who speak a different language... But spending the same money Again we justify we must accept lies because this is an illegal business... com'n! most dealers selling in this forum perfectly know this demand from a long time a go. They also know the level of knowledge many people have here. What do you mean? because of language issues they advertise an Asian ETA like an ETA (swiss), or they claim for selling "solid gold"...? ha, ha They don't care (that's the real true) and many of us justify them (for whatever reason). I fully support demanding dealers for a honest and truly advertising policy in these forums... not so difficult (and if difficult is not our problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Exactly... you try selling some oregano as weed or try selling some ground up tylenol as cocaine and see how far "whatever, it's an illegal business" gets you then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chronomat123 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Good call, Pug. Also-- Josh and Andrew use the term "light AR" (light antireflective coating) in describing some watch crystals. [censored]! There's no such thing as light AR. They claim the replica Breitling Bentley has light AR. I had one-- it has NO AR, that's what kind of AR it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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