A/6538 “Burford” dial

[madasboot]

The vintage dials always fascinated me and since there is a gap in sourcing accurate dials for our projects I finally decided to produce them myself, first researching and then re-designing them including the different kind of fonts and the subtle variations of logos.

This “burford” is just the first of a batch of accurate variations of sub dials (no date) I am currently making.

It is in its final shape, lacquer finished and also lumed by myself with resin lume suspension as done before the luminovas and such.

I will update new pictures as other versions are produced.

For now, enjoy this one and later some more as I will be using this dial myself for my 6538 milsub.

And finally, for me, this is a goodbye to yukis and riyis and ill spent dollars in stuff that could (but its not) perfect

Edited March 26, 2022 by madasboot
Incomplete

[madasboot]

A quick one before assembly:

et voila…

[Nanuq]

Wow, huge respect.

[madasboot]

1 minute ago, Nanuq said:

Wow, huge respect.

Thank you Bob! 
at some point I got fed up with the same sources and same mistakes so I decided to do it myself…

save some dolla, learn a lot and have some very decent results… plus i brought with me something from an old watchsmith in Ho Chi Minh which is a resinous substance with suspended old lume powder which is a blast

and here is the regular dial…

much easier to lume

[oldtools]

Wow! Beautiful!

[alligoat]

Beautiful dial! I ran across this discussion from VRF

(18) The Early Rolex Military Submariners. - Vintage Rolex Forum (tapatalk.com)

 

[madasboot]

37 minutes ago, alligoat said:

Beautiful dial! I ran across this discussion from VRF

(18) The Early Rolex Military Submariners. - Vintage Rolex Forum (tapatalk.com)

 

Thank you!

and thanks for the link as well. Awesome read!

M.

[madasboot]

and here it is 

[oldtools]

Very nice!  More pictures, please

[madasboot]

20 minutes ago, oldtools said:

Very nice!  More pictures, please

Thank you sir!

I am now on the gilted dials…

[Nanuq]

Very very nice. Congratulations! We’ve had many discussions over the years about the bezel construction on an a/6538. Some say they were 100% “German silver” and others say they were 2 pieces, made of stainless lower and German silver upper. I’m not sure that was ever resolved. Mike Wood has some pretty compelling pictures.

https://rwg.cc/topic/182962-ref-a6538-6540/

[madasboot]

Thanks B.

Mine is not so a so-accurate-homage.

bezel is brass (heavily oxidized now) and I have two Adrian’s brevet crowns and even the correct tap but i am not good enough  with metal works (yet) to redrill and re-tap the tube hole in the case.

And where I live I cannot find anyone to do the job for me

M.

[Nanuq]

Oh, not to diminish your efforts in any way, your result is fantastic!! Knowing your attention to detail, I figured you’re like me, get the piece to a “finished v1.0” state then wear it, all the while thinking of what comes with v2.0

I’ve thought of taking Adrian’s crown and scribing lines on the inner surface to mimic the “steel folded over brass” look. That wouldn’t require retapping and it’s really the only thing that makes it look unlike the original.

[madasboot]

5 hours ago, Nanuq said:

I figured you’re like me, get the piece to a “finished v1.0” state then wear it, all the while thinking of what comes with v2.0

We are here since day one

[automatico]

"...I have two Adrian’s brevet crowns and even the correct tap but i am not good enough with metal works (yet) to redrill and re-tap the tube hole in the case.

And where I live I cannot find anyone to do the job for me."

 

Having the correct tap is one third of the battle.

My last case tube drill/tap job was drilling and tapping a JMB '1016' case from 5.3mm case tube size threads to standard 6.0mm size threads.  Standard 6.0mm and 7.0mm (twin/triplock) case tube threads are 3.0mm diameter by .35mm pitch and take a 2.5mm drill bit.  I do not have specs on 8mm case tubes. 

 

The next third is drilling the hole in the case to the right size before tapping it.  Look up the metric or number size drill bit to use for the tap size you have and buy a few bits.  Carbide is best but high speed steel (aka HSS) bits will work if you keep them lubed while drilling.  Since the case tube hole is already drilled in the case before you re-drill the hole, the new hole will almost always be straight.  I underlined almost because things can go wrong.

I use a small milling machine with a homemade bracket to hold the case while drilling spring bar and case tube holes to size but a small low cost table mount type drill press will work just fine.  My small drill press was $49USD on sale and I use it for all kinds of small jobs.  The small milling machine is not necessary but since I have it, I use it and besides, it is inside where it is warm in the winter and the drill press is out in the garage.

 

The last third is very critical because the tap has to be started straight in the hole or it can get in a bind and break or not cut good threads...this is usually the hardest part of the whole operation.  

 

So...what to do?

After you locate the proper drill bits, practice drill a few holes in a spare steel watch case, piece of steel strap metal etc about 3mm or 4mm thick and tap the threads to get a feel for it.  This will demonstrate how easy it is to start a tap out of true and how to keep it straight.  I will admit it is not easy but after a few practice runs you will be able to tell if the tap is starting straight or not by the force needed to turn it to cut the threads.  Keep the tap lubricated and blow or flush the metal chips out every half turn or so.  I flush the chips out with WD 40 etc in a spray can.  After the hole is most of the way tapped you can remove the tap and clean the threads and tap before finishing it up but if you remove the tap before it cuts a few good threads, it will be hard to get it started.  Very hard sometimes.

 

Tips:

I use a pin vise to start the tap because it is easier to 'eyeball' the trueness of a pin vice than a T handle tap wrench.  Once the threads are started you can change over to a T handle if you want to.

 

After you drill the case tube hole you can 'cheat' when starting the tap if you mount the tap in the drill chuck and lower it very lightly into the case and turn it by hand (power off) to get it started straight.  This only works if you have a precision case mounting set-up and a good drill press with no slop in the drill's spindle bearings etc.  Do not try this at first on a case, try it on scrap metal etc.

Practice, practice, practice with a little patience added is the key.

 

Good luck!  

 

 

 

 

 

[altesporsche]

On 3/31/2022 at 11:41 PM, madasboot said:

and here it is 

Absolutely stunning ! Nice work !!

[madasboot]

2 hours ago, altesporsche said:

Absolutely stunning ! Nice work !!

Thank you!

do let me know if you want to try it:)

I had built a few spares

best

M.

[paneristi360]

Looks great! i’m a big fan of vintage watches


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[madasboot]

On 4/3/2022 at 11:18 PM, automatico said:

"...I have two Adrian’s brevet crowns and even the correct tap but i am not good enough with metal works (yet) to redrill and re-tap the tube hole in the case.

And where I live I cannot find anyone to do the job for me."

 

Having the correct tap is one third of the battle.

My last case tube drill/tap job was drilling and tapping a JMB '1016' case from 5.3mm case tube size threads to standard 6.0mm size threads.  Standard 6.0mm and 7.0mm (twin/triplock) case tube threads are 3.0mm diameter by .35mm pitch and take a 2.5mm drill bit.  I do not have specs on 8mm case tubes. 

 

The next third is drilling the hole in the case to the right size before tapping it.  Look up the metric or number size drill bit to use for the tap size you have and buy a few bits.  Carbide is best but high speed steel (aka HSS) bits will work if you keep them lubed while drilling.  Since the case tube hole is already drilled in the case before you re-drill the hole, the new hole will almost always be straight.  I underlined almost because things can go wrong.

I use a small milling machine with a homemade bracket to hold the case while drilling spring bar and case tube holes to size but a small low cost table mount type drill press will work just fine.  My small drill press was $49USD on sale and I use it for all kinds of small jobs.  The small milling machine is not necessary but since I have it, I use it and besides, it is inside where it is warm in the winter and the drill press is out in the garage.

 

The last third is very critical because the tap has to be started straight in the hole or it can get in a bind and break or not cut good threads...this is usually the hardest part of the whole operation.  

 

So...what to do?

After you locate the proper drill bits, practice drill a few holes in a spare steel watch case, piece of steel strap metal etc about 3mm or 4mm thick and tap the threads to get a feel for it.  This will demonstrate how easy it is to start a tap out of true and how to keep it straight.  I will admit it is not easy but after a few practice runs you will be able to tell if the tap is starting straight or not by the force needed to turn it to cut the threads.  Keep the tap lubricated and blow or flush the metal chips out every half turn or so.  I flush the chips out with WD 40 etc in a spray can.  After the hole is most of the way tapped you can remove the tap and clean the threads and tap before finishing it up but if you remove the tap before it cuts a few good threads, it will be hard to get it started.  Very hard sometimes.

 

Tips:

I use a pin vise to start the tap because it is easier to 'eyeball' the trueness of a pin vice than a T handle tap wrench.  Once the threads are started you can change over to a T handle if you want to.

 

After you drill the case tube hole you can 'cheat' when starting the tap if you mount the tap in the drill chuck and lower it very lightly into the case and turn it by hand (power off) to get it started straight.  This only works if you have a precision case mounting set-up and a good drill press with no slop in the drill's spindle bearings etc.  Do not try this at first on a case, try it on scrap metal etc.

Practice, practice, practice with a little patience added is the key.

 

Good luck!  

 

 

 

 

 

Hi R.

precisely my case… Adrian sent me two of those beauties and some months later I got stem adapters and then found out that I had all except drills and taps.

Followed your suggestion with practice but metal (or holes) are not my element…

will persist though:)

that will be the cherry on top.

for now I am finishing some gilt dials

all my best

Marco

28 minutes ago, paneristi360 said:

Looks great! i’m a big fan of vintage watches


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thank you!

here is my latest, built from scratch

[manodeoro]

A quick one before assembly:

et voila…

just WOW !!! you did a great job ...
Mine says hello ... I built it 2017 if I remember well
home made Burford dial, fixed bars and 2 parts steel/german silver bezel ... a long journey ...
it's been a box queen's for some years but now I've seen yours my wrist ask for it ...

[altesporsche]

7 hours ago, madasboot said:

Thank you!

do let me know if you want to try it:)

I had built a few spares

best

M.

I’ll have to snatch one of those up. I’ll shoot you a mesg when I get home in a few days. 😎

[Ray Po]

Hello, what size is the dial?

[madasboot]

19 minutes ago, Ray Po said:

Hello, what size is the dial?

Hi. Done in a 28.5 base plate

[Ray Po]

Can it be done in a 27mm

[madasboot]

It can be done in 27mm but I don’t have base plates qwith 27mm. Must be customized