Usil Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Me too. Keeping posts with pictures and sale price is a great idea. I saw a real estate web site that tracked housing sale prices over the past 15 years. It was intersting but depressing - if I had bought a nice house in Normandy in 1990 it would have cost me 35,000 Euro (equivlent) and today the same houose would cost me 350,000 Euro. Usil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 I agree there have been some watches that seemed over priced but there have also been reasonably priced examples. This is true of any other commodity or service in a free market. I'm sort of a movement freak, and would be willing to pay additional for a movement that was properly serviced. These movements for the most part are not properly lubed or timed and having the piece of mind that I have a reliable & accurate time keeper, is worth the price of admission. I just wanted to illustrate that what may be important to some may not be so important to another. With regard to pricing, there is a ton of info here and TRC, if one cares to search. It is also easy to check the various dealer sites and make price comparisons. If after all this one remains unsure, they can always ask. The existing resource options should be more than sifficient to get a handle on values. As to maintaining old sales info available to the public eye, I'm not sure it's useful plus who knows who roams these forums. IMO, pricing is a moving target and depends on factors such as convinience, extras, modifications performed & who performed them, seller reputation, rarity of the watch/movement and methods of pmt accepted. For newbs, relax, take your time and learn a bit before jumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 100% agreed to never never delete sales that ended. It's precious information for all of us. That is called a record of an illegal transaction - THey should ALL be deleted for all of our benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenacious_b Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 I think anyone is welcome to pay what they want for something for sell, and sell something they have for whatever someone is willing to pay. I would personally be happy to pay a premium for a watch with servicing, waterproofing and mods, simply because I am willing to pay for the convenience of buying the finished product and having it on my wrist and not having to ship it here and there and risk shipping or customs loss, and not having to wait to get my watch back. Think what you will, but if someone is willing to buy something at a price THEY deem fair, then it really doesn't matter what anyone outside that transaction thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 That is called a record of an illegal transaction - THey should ALL be deleted for all of our benefit Illegal? Why? Illegal is something that is done out of established laws, and free market I don't think is illegal. A different thing is that we may advise newbies that some item is overprices, but even in that case, it will overpriced form your personal view. You may not give importance to have a watch with a serviced movement because you know how to do do it or have access to some one that can do it, or you don't, so service is a plus you would pay. Please, don't try to be so protectionist... market regulates itself easily without any need of external help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 I think anyone is welcome to pay what they want for something for sell, and sell something they have for whatever someone is willing to pay. I would personally be happy to pay a premium for a watch with servicing, waterproofing and mods, simply because I am willing to pay for the convenience of buying the finished product and having it on my wrist and not having to ship it here and there and risk shipping or customs loss, and not having to wait to get my watch back. Think what you will, but if someone is willing to buy something at a price THEY deem fair, then it really doesn't matter what anyone outside that transaction thinks. Well said ten... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Illegal? Why? Illegal is something that is done out of established laws, and free market I don't think is illegal. Selling counterfeit goods is illegal. I don't see how you could have missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 market regulates itself easily without any need of external help. No, it doesn't. There is no working example of a free market that has ever shown that. The whole point of this forum is to apply external help on trades. We're here to help people from getting scammed. IdealWatches gets customers. Fraudsters get customers, with reps sold as gens on eBay. We all stand together to stop this from happening, right? It's what we do. Conning and suckering isn't 'free market forces'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 I think anyone is welcome to pay what they want for something for sell, and sell something they have for whatever someone is willing to pay. I would personally be happy to pay a premium for a watch with servicing, waterproofing and mods, simply because I am willing to pay for the convenience of buying the finished product and having it on my wrist and not having to ship it here and there and risk shipping or customs loss, and not having to wait to get my watch back. Think what you will, but if someone is willing to buy something at a price THEY deem fair, then it really doesn't matter what anyone outside that transaction thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Sometimes its fair; for example if someone buys from the same country they are basically getting the watch without the risk and most likely next day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 I see from time to time some members that sell a USED watch for more $$$ ...and we can find the same watch easy at low price brand new with out a single scratch!!!....for example: I personaly seviced my Gen watches many many times..and i have spent many many $$$ on them..if i will sell them i can not ask more money for the services or something else....i have to ask a fair price for the watch that i will sell! What do you people have to say?? Regards. Grg I think sellers should ask whatever a buyer is willing to pay. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 What do you people have to say?? Regards. Grg What I have to say is that a used watch is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. If a watch for sale has desirable modifications to the buyer, then of course it makes sense that he will pay more for it than the new version. It saves him the hassle of having to mod the watch himself or pay someone else to perform the mods. And in most cases the modded watches are being sold for less than the original owner spent on the watch and mods, so it's a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 I think sellers should ask whatever a buyer is willing to pay. I'd like to modify that slightly: Sellers should ask whatever an informed buyer is willing to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 I'd like to modify that slightly: Sellers should ask whatever an informed buyer is willing to pay. I think it was fine as originally stated. Buyer beware. Plain and simple. It isn't the responsibility of the seller to make sure he has an informed buyer. Quite the opposite. And here in the US, anyhow, we pride ourselves on our property rights - the right you have to offer your property up for sale subject to conditions set by *you*. Besides, any buyer who spends even a modicum of time reading this forum will be hard pressed to be taken for a fool on the watch sales subforum anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Maybe admin could add a sticky to the sales thread advising newbs to do some research before "pulling the trigger" I do not think the moderators should be regulating sales between members... that's a slippery slope to me. who is to say how much added value servicing or modifying add to a price. Let's not restrict the workings of our little marketplace. If the real or perceived value doen't cut it for you, move on. Maybe to others it is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 No, it doesn't. There is no working example of a free market that has ever shown that. Conning and suckering isn't 'free market forces'. That may be true, but the examples of markets that have been crushed under the weight of over regulation are for more prevelant than the othe way around. If there is a lot of 'conning and suckering' between members on this board that is unfortunate... it is also unfortunate that we do not hear about it in the member review section. Free exchange of information is vital to the workings of a marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 If there is a lot of 'conning and suckering' between members on this board that is unfortunate... it is also unfortunate that we do not hear about it in the member review section. If someone is conned, they don't usually know immediately. That's the point. One problem I came across when trying to sell my watches here recently (to pay for my Steelfish) was that I had absolutely no barometer against which to price two of my three watches. It's all well and good saying I can sell it for what someone is willing to pay, but this forum doesn't have an auction system. I don't know if I let them go too cheap or if I was overpriced. When you're talking of all this free market stuff, you're talking about markets where one seller is selling the same commodity over and over again until he finds the price the market is willing to bear. When one seller has one watch, how can he find the stable point? How can I know what the fair market value is for a replica that no-one stocks any more? Besides, we have a regulated market here. You have to display a price and you need to be a member to do so. This is not a free market and you need to follow the rules to take part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 When one seller has one watch, how can he find the stable point? How can I know what the fair market value is for a replica that no-one stocks any more? By way of example, a member semi-recently sold a no-longer-produced Breitling Seawolf Ti on the forum. I think it had a genuine dial, but could be mistaken. Anyhow, he had it priced at original price when new + cost of gen dial + moderate markup due to demand. Call his asking price X. If his asking price had been too high, then he'd have gotten nothing but "I'll give you X*0.8" or "I'll give you X*0.9", etc. Then if those were his only two offers he may have sold it for the latter offer. However, instead, he received numerous offers at asking price and eventually offers well above his asking price, and the watch ended up selling for X + X*0.4 as I recall. As long as you're providing accurate descriptions of the watch, then go ahead and get what you can for it. And no matter what price you initially ask for an item, if there is sufficient interest in it, you will get offers for it. If you haven't committed fraud, then whatever price you get for a watch is between you and the buyer. Personally, I'm not terribly concerned about buyers who (A) haven't taken the time to research the item or the seller, ( have been conned as a result of their own carelessness, and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 This is ridiculous, Suppose that you take your car to the dealer for service, the car does not worth more money just because has been service. nobody in his right mind will think that the car is worth more because has been service. I will not even pay the same price as new. Is like trying to sell a Genuine used Rolex for the price of a new one. why buy used when you can buy the same one new. Just my personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 why buy used when you can buy the same one new. Just my personal opinion. Because "new" in replicas can mean "unfinished". A serviced 7750 is worth more than an unserviced 7750. To further your car analogy, would you pay more for a completed kit car than the parts alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansenshukai Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 To me is a simple matter of common sense. The watch being serviced is not a selling point for me. Neither is the waterproofing. For one thing, I can't be sure about that even after I receive the watch (except for - maybe - the waterproofing). Then again, I have not had a single one of my reps have a problem with waterproofing with average use (not SCUBA diving, but like swimming in the pool). Servicing of a watch is something that must be done at some time or another, if one expects their watch to last. Same as that of a car. Like someone pointed out earlier, if I take my car to be serviced by the most expensive and capable mechanic in the country, I cannot expect to charge this forward to the buyer; it is something the buyer buys into if he wants to, I guess. However, if I modify my car and throw in an additional $4000 USD in audio/video and another $1200 in rims, then, I can charge this forward as these are parts that are additional to the car - and they are tangible. If someone is selling a rep watch that has genuine parts, for instance, then I think it is reasonable that this person will charge that forward. I recently traded a watch with someone who communicated to me that the rep had been serviced and had a better crytal put in. He also told me that it was waterproofed. Well, the crystal seal was improperly set and the rep leaked while in the shower. Then, the rotor came loose and it sounded like a baby rattle. Luckily, I traded that to a buddy who wanted it for some project. I pointed out the flaws and he found that the crown guards appealed to him, so he went for it. To be fair, the original owner promised to pay for it to be "serviced" again by one of our resident rep experts. This guy got a Swiss 7750 movement watch from me that had never been "serviced", or waterproof tested. He never had issues with it. So, I ask myself, where is the value in buying something that has a claim attached that you can't tangibly proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 2p's worth... Recently I sold my TAG Link Chrono. I sold it for exactly what I paid Neil for it (plus postage). The decision to put it up for sale was fairly spur of the moment. I advertised the watch as serviced, and the history of the watch from purchase, through ironing out QC problems, to its chrono failure and subsequent repair is VERY well documented in this forum. IMO this is why it sold within hours of it going up for sale. On the same day I purchased a TAG Carrera with SS strap - the price was low for the model. Very good pictures showed it was in perfect condition. The seller was even including a rubber strap. The seller was UK based so I negotiated a small discount on the total cost as the price had been advertised as including postage worldwide. The member selling it was someone I didn't recognise, but he had been a member for about 6 months with a low post count. I took a chance on the fact that two of the links in the bracelet were temporarily unusable as the pins had been broken, but this worked ok as I didn't need them to size it. Two very good deals but each done because of their specific merits. Often I'd consider paying a member as much for a watch as I'd pay a dealer for the raw piece as a decent member will have taken care of QC issues etc. I think generalising is unhelpful. If someone says a watch is serviced treat it as rubbish unless you can verify the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 I think generalising is unhelpful. If someone says a watch is serviced treat it as rubbish unless you can verify the info. I agree. Oh, and treat it as rubbish even if it's a dealer saying it's been serviced, unless they can give you some sort of proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Here's one thing I don't get. I know that a lot of guys pay a premium on their watches for the level of attention they get from the dealer, fast response to emails, answering all their questions and so on. Fair enough. But if they sell that watch, the new buyer isn't getting that - so why should it be more than the new price from other dealers? You might say, well it's in the country, no customs issues and so on. But it would still be in the country with no customs issues if they'd bought it at the less expensive price to begin with. Does that make sense? And one other thing - yes price is a seller's prerogative, of course it is. But I also notice that there is strong feeling that questioning the price in sales threads is verboten. We've seen some dismal early version PO's up for sale at way more than the latest versions new. Folk then get narky when anyone points that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 But I also notice that there is strong feeling that questioning the price in sales threads is verboten. We've seen some dismal early version PO's up for sale at way more than the latest versions new. Folk then get narky when anyone points that out. Should it be allowed? I mean it does seem like bad form to question prices, but couldn't this be described as "market forces"? The Free Market model touted by so many should allow for someone posting on your thread with the same watch for a cheaper price. Where should the line be drawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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