zetterdawg Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Look on RWI for a steelfish price post. It's in the loony bin now. In that thread, Josh, Andrew and Angus all proudly exclaimed they'd fixed the price and had made sure no other dealers would get that watch. I'd copy/paste the text, but I can't seem to connect to RWI for some reason. hahaha that was my thread: steelfish price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie7s Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I too, second Smalls in saying that even though Im new to the boards, I feel a slight twinge in the air with regards to some dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 And this statement is really all I needed to hear because I really think it should have dawned on you by now that nobody here wants you to "put as ETA 2892" when IT IS NOT AN ETA 2892!!! Nobody here cares what they call it in China. I find it mind boggling that you wouldn't understand this. Therefore I have to conclude that you do understand this, but you don't care and you do it to sell watches. the other issue is (if memory serves) that originally it was not advertised as a eta 2892 CLONE... just an ETA 2892. In other words, I do not remeber the word 'CLONE' being included in the original description Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 hahaha that was my thread: steelfish price Yes, it was. Can you paste the posts they said they were blocking other dealers and fixing the prices so Olivia can see we're not just making this stuff up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivia Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) Look on RWI for a steelfish price post. It's in the loony bin now. In that thread, Josh, Andrew and Angus all proudly exclaimed they'd fixed the price and had made sure no other dealers would get that watch. I'd copy/paste the text, but I can't seem to connect to RWI for some reason. There is a Super Ocean thread where Puretime and Josh post about it and appears to only be available from them and perhaps Andrew.The RWI thread is 13 pages long, so maybe I missed something. But as I read Puretime's post, what he says seems quite reasonable to me. Did these dealers approach the suppliers with this project with the specifications and contract for a certain number of units? If I did that, I don't think I would want it available to other dealers either. Are we really saying that if 3 or 4 dealers pool resources and contract for a new Rep and construct an agreement with the supplier that it would only be available to them, that this is a cartel and price fixing is by default? I don't think I would view it that way. Edited March 27, 2007 by olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 So, there is a cartel including andrew, josh, angus, and king. And they are trying to cut out the smaller dealers...fix prices, etc. Almost everyone seems to believe it. After reading through all of the posts in this thread I find NO credible evidence for such a claim. ( Don't consider the email evidence....in its currrent form.)Evidence may exist, but you won't find it in this thread,so far. Now the B&R issue is another problem and evidence certainly exists for that. Ok, I am done reading the 13 pages so far. I apologize for coming to the party so late. I am still at work, so I have to read when I have some downtime at work, and it must have taken me an hour or two at least to finish all 13 pages. Olivia, there are evidence. Now I may have remembered it wrong, but in the little white lies thread, I think I remember either Trusty or Josh had said that the steelfish is not circulating elsewhere, and the price WILL NOT be changed. That sounds like price fixing to me. I have dealt with both Trusty and Angus, and I will say that my experience is good with both of them. but I also know this, if I had bought that B&R (at some point I did thought about buying one), only to find out it's some cheap Chinese movements inside, I'd be furious, and demand to have my money back right away. Several posters have touched on this; the movement bear no resemblance to ETA 2892, so why even put the name Asian ETA 2892. That is pretty bad. I know by putting ETA, you gain credibility, the dealer knows this, the customers know this. If you put Asian 21J movement, versus Asian ETA 2892, I bet the sales numbers will be quite different. I do want to know Edge, in your situation, what happens when you confronted Andrew or Josh about this, did you get your money back? Because I would want that to happen, and it is best for us to come up with some policy to make sure that this does not happen again. False advertising is not good. Don't even get me to think about the paypal thing. I never could have imagined that this could happen. I literally pray that this is all just false too. Because if it is true, it will be tremendously sad that someone would stoop that low to gain market share. Now, let's talk about happy things.........where is Chad, let's go on and talk about light AR and crooked day/date wheel on the pilot chrono.....hope you're not offended Chad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxus Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Well since were on page 13 in less than 24 horus this must be a big problem. But maybe some of us are taking this vendetta a bit too far, lets not forget this is not Walmart (as much as we may beleive things are turning into such) this is an underground hobby and as such it will inherently posses underground marketing structures, they may not satisfy all and some of the most pleased customers can have their black day eventually and all hell can break lose. I say make a formal request for an explenation and a civil exhange of ideas. But at certain parts of this thread I can almost hear the pitchforks torches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Well since were on page 13 in less than 24 horus this must be a big problem. But maybe some of us are taking this vendetta a bit too far, lets not forget this is not Walmart (as much as we may beleive things are turning into such) this is an underground hobby and as such it will inherently posses underground marketing structures, they may not satisfy all and some of the most pleased customers can have their black day eventually and all hell can break lose. I say make a formal request for an explenation and a civil exhange of ideas. But at certain parts of this thread I can almost hear the pitchforks torches. With all due respect. THere is just more history here than your aware of. It goes back over the last few years and our relationships with these dealers. There was a much more calm civil thread a few weeks ago and yet the out and out fraud relating to movements still goes on. If we don't stand up - you, me, and the other newbs will be defrauded at some point. I am easily responsible for 20-30 watches being purchased from josh. thats around 6 grand. in fake watches. I expect that my dealer will not blatently lie about the product. - raise the prices, but don't lie about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Yes, it was. Can you paste the posts they said they were blocking other dealers and fixing the prices so Olivia can see we're not just making this stuff up? Consider it done, Amigo. http://www.replica-watch.info/forum/viewto...p=138054#138054 Well.. this Breitling SuperOcean is worth every single cent of your USD308. Where can you find a watch that is waterproofed to 1000m as claimed by Maker?? For your information, this price will always REMAIN at USD308. Swiss ETA 2824-2 movement is getting real scarce and even the Maker has to buy them in lots to keep. If you dont have connections with some Makers, you cannot even get a Swiss ETA 2836 cheaply. Like Josh say...there are ONLY 4 dealers offering this and they are all the same specs. Every dealer has a different way of calling it. I call my wife... DEAR.... Joshua call his wife..Darling...and the others.. I dont know. LOL... Dont be a pug... =P Get the Asia ETA 2813 version if you want to save some money..anyway it's 21J (28,800bph) Cheers Andrew http://www.replica-watch.info/forum/viewto...p=138896#138896 The last dealer of the four is KING. =) Andrew First post was dated Feb 7 07, Post two dated Feb 8 07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 With all due respect. THere is just more history here than your aware of. It goes back over the last few years and our relationships with these dealers. There was a much more calm civil thread a few weeks ago and yet the out and out fraud relating to movements still goes on. If we don't stand up - you, me, and the other newbs will be defrauded at some point. I am easily responsible for 20-30 watches being purchased from josh. thats around 6 grand. in fake watches. I expect that my dealer will not blatently lie about the product. - raise the prices, but don't lie about it I suspect the strategy is much the same as in the previous thread, on the part of the accused....stay low and wait till it blows over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona4me Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 This the one? Guys .. dun be a Pug Only 4 dealers have this watch... Slight difference in decriptions...and you guys think maybe there is 4 different versions ? noticed the simialrity in prices ? there is only 2 versions.. Swiss and Asian version...from one maker. Someone pugtent the word "super" so I have no choice but to decribe the lume of the watch as "Outstanding" Lume.. Any relume modder in the house doing "oustanding" lume for USD 90 ? Please tell me....I do not want to step on their tail again..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxse Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) okay just finished reading. GUYS there is JUST ONE THING I DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!! WHY DON'T THE ADMINS OF THIS BOARD JUST BAN THESE DEALERS OR SUSPEND THEIR ACCOUNTS????? This board is here to prevent exactly what these dealers are doing right? So isn't it in our best interest not to advertise these dealers?? I have bought from other dealers and have not had a single problem, Ruby, Sash, and others at RWI and have not had a single problem and the product and service was excellent. In addition the only time I had a problem was when I bought someting from Josh... Anyway, why dont we just get rid of these dealers??? It would be a lot easier then to give advice to others to boycott them. Just get rid of them... At least until they get their act together. *EDIT* I also think thats why they aren't really responding or answering the issues raised here and blabbing off about things not asked... They are waiting for this to blow over. But if we close down their section I am pretty sure they will start to care very quickly. Edited March 27, 2007 by maxse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I agree, but perhaps we should put up a poll? Good idea. I think its time to get this straightened out! Maybe something like this? What should the offending dealers punishment be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxse Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Good idea. I think its time to get this straightened out! Maybe something like this? What should the offending dealers punishment be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie7s Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Here is another post that reads like some shady stuff is going on... http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&...st&p=223843 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Great thread. Actually prefer reading this to getting any work done. Actually, this is nothing new, just the circumstances have changed. A couple of years ago Paul was excoriated for his crazy sale that turned into a nightmare for buyers. people said "Ban Him". He wasn't banned but lost a lot of business for awhile and stopped posting on the forums. Everybody said "stick with Joshua and Andrew.....they do it right". Then it was TTK's turn. He was excoriated for his attitude and lack of communication and timely delivery. He wasn't banned, but I'm sure it affected his business for awhile. Everybody said "stick with Joshua and Andrew.....they do it right". Now it's Josh and Andrew being excoriated for lying about movements (and as an offshoot forming a cartel by getting manufacturers to make enhanced reps). Now everybody says "stick with other sellers including TTK and Paul....They do it right". Why can't dealers of forgeries be perfect? "As the world turns" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 A quote from Trusty The fact is that the movement is indeed an ETA 2892 clone which is the best version in market. There are 6 companies in China manufcaturing ETA 2892 clones and Joshua and I bought the best one to install in the watch. It is the SLIMMEST and also beats at 28,800bph. You can input all these in the thread. I dont want to reply in the thread because of 2 things: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) I dont realy cear price is ok i buy not ok i dont buy easy. I see what you all see some dealers working toghter and i dont buy from them,i see one that i hope has not join this force of evil but i have my thoughts,hope i em wrong. My buy's goes mostly to my main man Edddddddie Edited March 28, 2007 by Dani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivia Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) Here is another post that reads like some shady stuff is going on... http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&...st&p=223843 After reading the thread in the link above, it does appear (from Andrew)that Andrew and Josh are colluding on price and perhaps even communicating regarding member purchases...at least those that price check between the two. Don' know about King . Nothing really wrong with that as far as I can tell. That is the way they choose to run their business, and we as buyers can take action accordingly. But we probably would not know about it without this Forum. Sometimes you can try to be too smart and it backfires on you. Edit: I only buy from River and Silix. Edited March 28, 2007 by olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warburg Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 If the four dealers who comprise the cartel are price fixing, wouldn't their prices have to be appreciably higher than the listed dealers who apparently are not involved? I've compared prices on two watches, and I find no such pattern. Yesterday I ordered one on these watches from a cartel dealer. His price was a little higher than some of the approved dealers and a little lower than others, but I've had good experiences with him, and that was the main reason for my choice of dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 From Tim at RWI... Just a small post...for the time being...I am watching and reading everything that is going on...And want to state that I'm open for sugestions..And willing to work with RWG..On a solution.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Good idea,.. however they would need to then go through an initiation period to test them. Some members will either get a deal or get ripped,.. remember Sichaun ? I think we need to promote the honest dealers we already know,.. however have them clean up, or upgrade their methods,.. as we will have power to funnel more business like never before... or take it away. You are correct, some of them certainly will not pan out and out and people will get ripped; but people got ripped by our "trusty" dealers on the B&R as well - lots of people. Also, price control in the aggregate costs. I took a chance on sash and have been very, very happy. Everyone can afford to try a new guy on occasion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Physher007 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I've been sitting here waiting for some sort of response from any of the dealers involved. Is it that you don't care or that you don't take this seriously? Either way. Is there anyone who believes this to be an over-reaction on the part of the members here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sony Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 If the four dealers who comprise the cartel are price fixing, wouldn't their prices have to be appreciably higher than the listed dealers who apparently are not involved? I've compared prices on two watches, and I find no such pattern. Yesterday I ordered one on these watches from a cartel dealer. His price was a little higher than some of the approved dealers and a little lower than others, but I've had good experiences with him, and that was the main reason for my choice of dealers. Two reasons you don't see the price fixing effect clearly and immediately. 1. Price has already been fixed and averaged. 2. It usually applies to NEW & HOT releases, such as Breit Chrono Evo, Steelfish, PAM 092, etc... No one else can carry them unless they also set the price high enough.... Why is price fixing bad? We already know the answer. They can manipulate the price as if it's a monopoly. But the WORST THING is that we pay $$$$ and get LIED to and SCAMMED to. If the 4 gangs want to fix the price, fine. At least they will have to deliver WHAT WE ORDERED, but they didn't. Anyway, I just don't buy from them (Andrew, Angus, Joshua, King). And it's not even funny how they keep their silence for so long as if they are ignoring the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Physher007 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 The reason they "fix" the price is to protect their profits. If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to ask $300+ for a crappy asian movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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