chubbchubb Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 This thread seems to have turned from an issue with price fixing, to an issue with the BR-01, are we not flogging a dead horse with that one? I don't think so Richard... this is just an example in the truth-lies-trust saga everybody knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Really guys... the profanity should stop, no need to goto that level, it's just not a good look I'm glad Andrew has been part of this discussion, it would be better to come clean so we can get back to what we're here for. Andrew, I know it's a hard business you're in, but that's the path you've chosen and we are your customers... Treat us with honesty and respect and we will return the sentiment. When I order a watch, I want what I pay for... If I order an eta movement, I want that and am happy to pay for that (as I have in the past) If the said watch comes with something other than what I ordered, I don't want the watch... No trustie, no watchy... Pure and simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 This thread seems to have turned from an issue with price fixing, to an issue with the BR-01, are we not flogging a dead horse with that one? I agree, the cartel conspiracy price fixing charge, that seemed to be the more serious sinister accusation, has fallen by the wayside. Is this still a valid point or did Andrew deflate the accusation by saying there is no cartel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 What about the superlume.....which wasn't very 'super'...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega1 Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 This thread seems to have turned from an issue with price fixing, to an issue with the BR-01, are we not flogging a dead horse with that one? I agree. I had thought that the BR-01 issue was more then adequately covered by the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I would like to apologise for losing my temper and the use of profanities, HOWEVER, Andrew has avoided responding to the fact we are calling him out on his lies, and has chosen only to respond to the issues he feels he can defend, layout, time, expense etc. When these have never been called into question, it is your integrity as a dealer and moreover a human being that has been called out. We have all trusted you and Josh etc. for a long time, and you guys have now abused that trust TOO OFTEN with all your lies, Sapphire Crystal, Light AR, Now this movement crap.... This has proven to eb the straw that broke the camels back and lets be fair you have been warned, and you have ignored us, you have been given more than enough chances to prove yourself and not not screw over the members, but one again you have failed and chosen to seek profit by deception. That is your perogative, however you must live with the consequences. I would also like to state that my hat is off to trusty for having the stones to reply here, as he is taking the brunt of the stick, when in reality there are another 3 dealers who deserve to be getting it just as much as him, however he is the only one who has had the balls to reply, just not about the actual issue at hand. Lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I agree, the cartel conspiracy price fixing charge, that seemed to be the more serious sinister accusation, has fallen by the wayside. Is this still a valid point or did Andrew deflate the accusation by saying there is no cartel? I reiterate... There is one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I would like to apologise for losing my temper and the use of profanities, HOWEVER, Andrew has avoided responding to the fact we are calling him out on his lies, and has chosen only to respond to the issues he feels he can defend, layout, time, expense etc. When these have never been called into question, it is your integrity as a dealer and moreover a human being that has been called out. We have all trusted you and Josh etc. for a long time, and you guys have now abused that trust TOO OFTEN with all your lies, Sapphire Crystal, Light AR, Now this movement crap.... This has proven to eb the straw that broke the camels back and lets be fair you have been warned, and you have ignored us, you have been given more than enough chances to prove yourself and not not screw over the members, but one again you have failed and chosen to seek profit by deception. That is your perogative, however you must live with the consequences. I would also like to state that my hat is off to trusty for having the stones to reply here, as he is taking the brunt of the stick, when in reality there are another 3 dealers who deserve to be getting it just as much as him, however he is the only one who has had the balls to reply, just not about the actual issue at hand. Lying. AMEN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I would like to apologise for losing my temper and the use of profanities, HOWEVER, Andrew has avoided responding to the fact we are calling him out on his lies, and has chosen only to respond to the issues he feels he can defend, layout, time, expense etc. When these have never been called into question, it is your integrity as a dealer and moreover a human being that has been called out. We have all trusted you and Josh etc. for a long time, and you guys have now abused that trust TOO OFTEN with all your lies, Sapphire Crystal, Light AR, Now this movement crap.... This has proven to eb the straw that broke the camels back and lets be fair you have been warned, and you have ignored us, you have been given more than enough chances to prove yourself and not not screw over the members, but one again you have failed and chosen to seek profit by deception. That is your perogative, however you must live with the consequences. I would also like to state that my hat is off to trusty for having the stones to reply here, as he is taking the brunt of the stick, when in reality there are another 3 dealers who deserve to be getting it just as much as him, however he is the only one who has had the balls to reply, just not about the actual issue at hand. Lying. I think ongoing diligence about the misrepresentations is a good thing but I agree with some of the recent posts that much of this, movement issues, lume AR etc, was covered passionately in the LWL thread. What about customer complaints and the issue of collusion to inflate prices????? Are these still issues that warrant discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 What about customer complaints and the issue of collusion to inflate prices????? Are these still issues that warrant discussion? Definitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Price fixing is happening, we have 4 dealers trying to corner the market with coming together to form a cartel, however we can only respond to what Trusty is saying, and he attempted to deflate it by saying it doesn't exist. This simply isn't true, there are lots of the smaller dealers who are being almost cut out by the bigger players trying to monopolise the trade. We are in a period in which we have seen many new dealers on the boards etc. this is a threat to the bottom lie of the "cartel" especially if they outgoings they refer to are true, they need to try and protect their business they are doing this by trying to control who can deal in what and at what price. At RWI we saw a few new dealers, some of whom had issues etc. however it is the Cartel that are lobbying for their removal, not the members, they are excertong control over who ca do what by pressuring the powers at be to remove new dealers, that threaten them. Josh in paricular has been trying to throw his weight around and make sure he is having a say in what is going on, this is NOT acceptable we are meant to be impartial, and we need to regain that stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratedzeus Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 4 Dealer Cartel Puretime Andrew Josh AND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltic Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 It all boils down to trust. We trust the dealers to sell us a watch with movements/AR/sapphire etc as they are described to us. Imagine buying a BMW advertised with a 3.0 turbo diesel and not knowing anything about cars trusting the seller that it has that engine. Time for its service and the mechanic says its actually a 125cc engine from a moped! We need to believe the dealers or this whole business goes [censored] over [censored]. Choose your dealer not the watch is bloody critical, again well done Edge for starting this discussion and looking at the post count in the short space of time shows how important this is to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Sorry, but the little white lies thread did cover it, but we kinda just accepted it and moved on..... WHY??? ....Do You Like Dealing With People Who Are Lying To You??? I Don't, and I for one wont stand for it, as this community is not about me or what I can live with, but what every new member sees, this is a forum designed to protect members from the lies and "misrepresentation", so why are we blindly accepting it? 4 Dealer Cartel Puretime Andrew Josh AND? King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Price fixing is happening, we have 4 dealers trying to corner the market with coming together to form a cartel, however we can only respond to what Trusty is saying, and he attempted to deflate it by saying it doesn't exist. This simply isn't true, there are lots of the smaller dealers who are being almost cut out by the bigger players trying to monopolise the trade. We are in a period in which we have seen many new dealers on the boards etc. this is a threat to the bottom lie of the "cartel" especially if they outgoings they refer to are true, they need to try and protect their business they are doing this by trying to control who can deal in what and at what price. At RWI we saw a few new dealers, some of whom had issues etc. however it is the Cartel that are lobbying for their removal, not the members, they are excertong control over who ca do what by pressuring the powers at be to remove new dealers, that threaten them. Josh in paricular has been trying to throw his weight around and make sure he is having a say in what is going on, this is NOT acceptable we are meant to be impartial, and we need to regain that stance. How are they monopolizing the trade? Don't monopolies usually squash the smaller guys by sacrificing profit to underprice the little businessman? Can you give us some specifics on what is going on? Does it go deeper than the big guys hogging visibility on the various boards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Certain aspects, of this conversation are nothing but anti-productive ... We should look to salvage what we can for the board.. We can all see the 'dishonest mistake' that a few dealers made when caught in a situation where would have lost business either way. The question is, now that their error has been exposed, what are we going to do about it ? And if we allow,.what, if anything can the dealers in question do in the future to not only make up for this, but to regain our trust ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I will not go to your level with the kind of offensive language Guys .. dun be a Pug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega1 Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 How are they monopolizing the trade? Don't monopolies usually squash the smaller guys by sacrificing profit to underprice the little businessman? Can you give us some specifics on what is going on? Does it go deeper than the big guys hogging visibility on the various boards? Exactly my thoughts. Right now I can only assume (which I hate doing), that the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 56 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users) I'm off to the member trade section to see if I can bag a bargain while everyones in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 We can all see the 'dishonest mistake' that a few dealers made when caught in a situation where would have lost business either way. These haven't been mistakes, they have been deliberate, sorry but its true. The Knowingly lied to customers, so it's no mistake it is deceipt, pure and simple. What are we going to do about it/ That is why this thread is here, to get answers and come to a COLLECTIVE decision. I'll put it to you that there have been numerous LIES and that we would not have accepted even half of this froma new dealer so why should we accept it from these guys?? Thats why we should vote wit our feet, and stop buying from them until they can prove to be who they were in the beginning, reliable and trustworthy dealers who cared about us, and delivering quality, not lying to protect profit margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Guys .. dun be a Pug :bangin: Pug, Dun Be Puggy... :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 At RWI we saw a few new dealers, some of whom had issues etc. however it is the Cartel that are lobbying for their removal, not the members, they are excertong control over who ca do what by pressuring the powers at be to remove new dealers, that threaten them. Josh in paricular has been trying to throw his weight around and make sure he is having a say in what is going on, this is NOT acceptable we are meant to be impartial, and we need to regain that stance. ..and when one of our more respected members raised similar issues, he was promptly banned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 How are they monopolizing the trade? Don't monopolies usually squash the smaller guys by sacrificing profit to underprice the little businessman? Or monopolising the stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 ..and when one of our more respected members raised similar issues, he was promptly banned... ... repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Since I've chosen to play the Devil's Advocate, I might as well continue: Concerning the Cartel: when some of the smaller dealers complain of the 'big dealers' buying up the movements or otherwise monopolizing the stock, could they be referring to the big scam-site dealers? The dealers here who sell the same (or better) pieces for a fourth or a fifth less than Replika Haus etc. must constitute a real threat - particularly given the traffic this site is generating. If I were in their place, I'd look to knock our dealers out of the picture - or at least make it a lot tougher to access product. Are some of 'our' dealers doing the same? Or is it blowback from dealers outside of the forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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