Anyone talked to Joe Lately!

[pubus]

yuppi!!! :bounce: \

wonder if there will be any new topics after this

[relaxman]

Finally no more Joe drama in RWG...

Good lord.......Won't be long til somebody else finds

something else to complain about.

[Craytonic]

A few less noobs who want the "perfect sub" getting billed $500, $40 of which goes to "blow the dial off" and possibly never getting their watch back is in the same league for me as not having those $800 fake sub sites listed here.

[Richard Tracy]

A few less noobs who want the "perfect sub" getting billed $500, $40 of which goes to "blow the dial off" and possibly never getting their watch back is in the same league for me as not having those $800 fake sub sites listed here.

Ditto,... however we see now how a few people can't see past their own experiences, to the big picture.

Just like the story of The Three blind men, that I was telling my daughter last week...

[nonskeder]

yuppi!!! :bounce: \

wonder if there will be any new topics after this

Probably not!! To risky for those who still care and are worried about being banned themselves. What ever you do "Dont post a positive experience " You will be outed for not getting it. The get a rope, will be shot at dawn, public hanging will get you in the end. WHAT A FORUM!! It is OK to have a opinion as long as it is against Joe. God help those who try and show a different side to this circus.

WARNING: Steping up to the plate is dangerous to your health, dont try this at home, consult you doctor before using, side effects such as banning could occur, blurred vision ect. Oh well batter up.

[pubus]

man, since i got here (previous rwg i mean) there have always been the same story with him, so no offence, but that is actually my mind about it

[jraines87]

WARNING: Steping up to the plate is dangerous to your health, dont try this at home, consult you doctor before using, side effects such as banning could occur, blurred vision ect. Oh well batter up.

Why are you conserned about posting a positive experience?

I've posted my positive experience with Joe several times. It's just getting too old to continue posting on this subject. Some bad, some good... Let the members decide for themselves.

[woody]

Probably not!! To risky for those who still care and are worried about being banned themselves. What ever you do "Dont post a positive experience " You will be outed for not getting it. The get a rope, will be shot at dawn, public hanging will get you in the end. WHAT A FORUM!! It is OK to have a opinion as long as it is against Joe. God help those who try and show a different side to this circus.

WARNING: Steping up to the plate is dangerous to your health, dont try this at home, consult you doctor before using, side effects such as banning could occur, blurred vision ect. Oh well batter up.

No one is saying not to praise Joe for his good work, but if you have dissatisfied members, and the topics keep popping back up, that is an alarming trend. For you, there may not have been a problem, but I think other people are trying to say, it's kind of like sending watches through customs, there are risks involved. At the very beginning, I was going to have my watch modded by Joe, but as I kept reading, I saw the risks that are involved, and decided to not do it. I think after all, if there is a 70 to 30 percent chance of having extended delay, and I think that is being very generous, then you just need to ask yourself, if it is all worth it. And as mods of the forum, they are to look out for the best interests, and govern if needed. From a probablity issue, it's just not good odds when you are sending watches in for work, just my 2 cents.

[Richard Tracy]

I think some people are twisting the issues....

We were trying to finally put a cover on some holes that many didn't know about,

while others were digging more, right along with the subject in question.

The assertations were not that Joe is 100% bad,.. no one said that,.. we only pointed out

the risks involved in doing business with him.

Arguing that we were crucifying the Jesus of mods was counterproductive, off point,

and serves as always to give enough benefit of the doubt, for the cycle to continue,

so six months from now, we have to start this ugly business all over again....

not knowing how many people who never post, got burned in the interim.

The risk is there, and to say otherwise is like going to Vegas, winning the slots and

arguing that it's a sound investment and we are stoning an innocent machine...

[Admin]

Probably not!! To risky for those who still care and are worried about being banned themselves. What ever you do "Dont post a positive experience " You will be outed for not getting it. The get a rope, will be shot at dawn, public hanging will get you in the end. WHAT A FORUM!! It is OK to have a opinion as long as it is against Joe. God help those who try and show a different side to this circus.

WARNING: Steping up to the plate is dangerous to your health, dont try this at home, consult you doctor before using, side effects such as banning could occur, blurred vision ect. Oh well batter up.

Why should people be afraid of posting their experiences? Nobody has never been banned from this forum for sharing their experiences, good or bad. Joe posted the full name of one of the moderators and this is not allowed and was the reason for his ban. We have rules here and we expect them to be followed and Joe is perfectly aware of this:

[5]- NEVER use the REAL name or any other info that can reveal the real identity of other members. If you feel like posting

your full real name, please do so, but unless you have a written permission to post somebody elses name, DON'T!

I don't think anybody has ever said that Joe was all bad. We all know people have good and bad experiences. But there is a pattern here that new members should be aware of and that was the point of my post.

No one is saying not to praise Joe for his good work, but if you have dissatisfied members, and the topics keep popping back up, that is an alarming trend. For you, there may not have been a problem, but I think other people are trying to say, it's kind of like sending watches through customs, there are risks involved. At the very beginning, I was going to have my watch modded by Joe, but as I kept reading, I saw the risks that are involved, and decided to not do it. I think after all, if there is a 70 to 30 percent chance of having extended delay, and I think that is being very generous, then you just need to ask yourself, if it is all worth it. And as mods of the forum, they are to look out for the best interests, and govern if needed. From a probablity issue, it's just not good odds when you are sending watches in for work, just my 2 cents.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with that post, Eddie. Nobody has ever denied the fact that Joe did some good work, but fact that there is a big chance that Joe will get sick while he has your watch and it will take him a long time to return it has been proven over and over again by several members and this is what I think it is important for people to concider if they decide to send a watch to him.

WTH!!! It took me 4 good and strong redbull vodkas to read this topic (im getting drunk)!!!

All i can say (i know the most of you dont give a flaying s**t about what i have to say) but here goes!!!

It's simple, THE most off you guy's are CRAZY!!! And for the rest of you, you are INSANE!!!

//robi

Robi, it's not a good idea to post while drunk. I thought you had learned your lesson

The risk is there, and to say otherwise is like going to Vegas, winning the slots and

arguing that it's a sound investment and we are stoning an innocent machine...

hehe...funny comaprison, but none the less true.

[KB]

Done tomaso, been there done that. Bellive me i will log out when the time is right!!! Now im just saloon drunk and thats ok... Hope your enyouing the nice weather don, it's nice when spring is in the air!!!

//robi

Besides robi you should know I'm neither crazy nor insane.

I'm Nucking Fut's!!!

Ken

[jake48]

WOW - 11 pages - I am sure glad I get to read this stuff at work and get paid for it!

For what it is worth I see it in real simple terms -

1. Joe definitely does some outstanding work

2. Some people are happy with Joes work/some are not

3. If you send your watch to Joe it may/may not take long time

4. The odds are in your favour that you will not get ripped off

As far as all the other somewhat child like rants -

1. Denisegold can not be Joe (grammer is far too exceedingly proper for it to be Joe)

2. Azmindreader - By far the most intelligent, concise and level headed post in the lot - I envy your style.

As far as me..

I am just some one who considers himself to be a friend of Joe, as well as a friend to many others on this web site, becuase I have been lucky enough to share the one thing we ALL have in common and that is our passion for watches.

Anyways, see ya all around!

[Admin]

Good post, Jake. Thanks for sharing

[Richard Tracy]

Yes Jake we all have love in watches in common,

however before you bag and zip this whole affair,..

There

[woody]

RT, what you said, reminded me of that another member screwed Arthur over on the 1680 deal, then make good of it later by taking care of the issue. But the simple fact, from square one, is that it should have never happened in the first place......

[jake48]

Yes Jake we all have love in watches in common,

however before you bag and zip this whole affair,..

There

[Richard Tracy]

RT - I think your points have all been clearly made in the previous 11 pages - not to say I agree with all of them, but I am not the type to get into back & forths (that's how I keep my post count low) on the net when it is obvious most people will do and say want they want any how.

I know it's never that simple, but for the most part, every one around here seems like intelligent adults who are quite capable of making up thier owns minds pretty quick and it get's a little wierd when people start trying to make it personal with a gazillion posts saying essentialy the same thing, either for or against a specific thought. I just chalk it up to passion (OK, maybe a little naive) and move along.

Anyways, you are still ALL my friends - OK, maybe one or two aren't (JK)

What's weird is biased summarizations that basically clear Joe

of any wrongdoings, save a few long turn-a-round times, when he was clearly

ripping people off.

Simple ? Yes it is, to anyone that knows the difference between fighting for an

underdog or mangy dog.

To do the latter affects the whole community with mange, your ...'friends'.

As for repeating myself,.. I would love nothing better than to see this thread die..

If my points, or if Two Tone's or even Admin's and numerous others, were made

clear, as you say, your post would, along with Az's or Denise's would not exist

in this thread, and maybe, just maybe, Joe would still be here.

Let it die,.. every time it's dragged up again.. Joe's corpse is dug up and more

stink from his deeds permeate the air...

[azmindreader]

Richard,

Since your altrustic mission here on RWG is to "inform the members" I feel the need to express a couple of points:

1. TwoTone's refund from Joe was not a result of being "called out" but quite to the contrary was a proactive refund by Joe at the time of initial delivery. This was gathered from TT's own initial post. It is also apparent that TT has mis-represented the actual price paid for the mods in question -- no offense TT as I can image the exact price from several years back could be forgotten but Joe seems very willing to post what the actual fees were -- but the point remains that Joe was crucified for something that may have been mis-represented. I find it understandable that he could have gotten angry in that situation.

2. I have seen mention of several watches finding residence in NC for quite a period of time However, I have yet to see where a watch has become a year-long NC resident that wasn't there for very special mod work and with the notification that such work would take considerable time. I could certainly be wrong -- all I know is what is mentioned in the posts. For everyone's edification -- my "full package" 1680 sub mods were performed and watch delivered within 3 weeks.

3. Richard -- I have to believe that you were pulling those numbers out of a place where flying monkeys usually flee as an example. Let me pose this question... What if 5% of Joe's customer's were unhappy in some regard with his pricing, time to completion, or craftsmanship? What if it was even 10% ... there are many respected companies that have customer satisfaction numbers lower than that! Judging by those posting issues with Joe, I would put forth that guess-timate as reasonable. The squeaky wheel usually gets the grease as they say -- especially if there is a mob of zealous "protectors" ready to oil the squeak People can react in crazy ways -- believe me I see it everyday! I have a feeling that there are a few people that perpetuate these anti-Joe ravings simply because they have the perception that the work they willingly and knowingly chose to pay Joe to perform did not make their fake watch be the wrist grail they had convinced themselves it would. It is easy to see how their ego could have been damaged and how it could be much easier and more comfortable to blame Joe than to accept the realization that their expectations were likley unrealistic. As an illustration -- I personally think that EL is the most fantastic seller on RWG -- he has never let me down and I would recommend him to anyone! Yet I see posts where others are unhappy with his communication, quality, etc. -- now EL doesn't make a spectacle of himself like Joe does (thanks EL) responding to complaints so publically -- but what if the RWG gang decided to jump EL because "back in the day" one of the mods or favored children of the board had to wait longer than expected for a watch to arrive. Or what if the watch had a seagull instead of an ETA that was discovered two years later. Or what if the watch had a mineral instead of saphire crystal as advertised! Would they demand that no one ever buy from that seller again! And heaven forbid if someone posted that they had received an excellent watch from the seller -- would we deride them -- question their identify as real -- make others believe that they were sleeping with the seller, etc, etc. (in other words do what has been done to those posting a favorable response about Joe).

4. IMO, Joe got banned because he wanted to get banned -- it was Joe's way of making his point (right or wrong) -- he knew what he was doing and would get banned -- it furthered his point since TT posted his information in a similar manner with no recourse -- it was Joe's way of making a statement and in fact martyring himself (in his own mind) in the process. You see Richard -- you and Joe are very similar in how you react and respond to situations (grammar skills aside of course) and that is why there is such disdain and butting of heads -- not because you are so opposite you can't co-exist -- but rather because you are so similar in how you respond even though your particular mindset and personal beliefs on the facts of the issues differ. I know you are shaking your head in disbelief and your teeth are grating against each other -- sorry Just like Joe, you need to have the last word, feel so strongly about your convictions that you can't see the other side of the situation, make judgments and decisions that at times defy logic in the view of an outside observer, have difficulty controlling your emotions, gain considerable self-esteem from your work quality and reputation, are very sensitive to personal criticism .... I could go on .......

5. Who said friends can't profit from friends? That is absurd. My financial advisor is a friend, my doctor is a friend -- they also certainly profit from my patronage. One of my best friends own a company that I generate VERY considerable income from each year -- providing a service they request and value very highly.

[Richard Tracy]

Az, the fact that you came into this thread long before TT's story came to light,

doing so because of a Joe did a few watches for you, makes your agenda as

clear as crystal to anyone with an objective mind,..

All this sweeping up afterwards is not going to change that fact, nor are

your number shuffling attempts, or your professional 'opinion'

that Joe left the board on his own accord, verses his own cord.

Goes to show you that you can't teach mind reading in school...

As for profiting from Friends,... maybe that's my own value system,..

but I stand by it, and call myself smart enough not to confuse dealers

and modders as 'friends'.. as Friendship is much more that trading

replicas for profit,...

[azmindreader]

Richard -- the fact that you came into this thread BEFORE I did -- and the fact that you haven't had any work done with Joe (to my knowledge) may make your AGENDA in this even more clear

BTW -- I rendered no "professional" opinion on Joe's motives -- just MHO. If I were to render a professional opinion, I would no doubt be called out for taking too long, charging too much, not providing the services listed, not treating the supreme board comanders with proper respect, etc. etc. -- there are alot of people around here who are good at flinging those excuses around

[V]

I don't understand what must be done for people to understand and see the clear picture of this debate..

Gather all the bad experiences (POSTED and not posted by fear) by Joe and put them in a thread?

Having a full image and a percentage will clear anything?

Sorry to be arrogant on this but we, and by 'we' I mean people who are on the boards for years have read and followed the story many times.

Newer members like denise or any denise with just 1-2 positive experiences as opinions with joe just don't matter to me.

It's like the famous Paul's crazy sale.. Not many people here will understand about it and I am sure Paul (WOMART) would probably have treated new members well..

But please have some respect to older members, mods and the admin.. We know something MORE than you do.

[jake48]

Richard,

Since your altrustic mission here on RWG is to "inform the members" I feel the need to express a couple of points: ...

OK - Now I am reeeeeeally envious of your writing style- you sir, should run for President.

I have often been told I am lucky to have the talent of writing clear, concise and to the point.

When compared to you, I am the writing equivalent to the kid who bangs on a guitar with no formal lessons, but in his mind he is playing like Andr

Edited May 2, 2007 by jake48

[Richard Tracy]

Richard -- the fact that you came into this thread BEFORE I did -- and the fact that you haven't had any work done with Joe (to my knowledge) may make your AGENDA in this even more clear

You call that an intelligent statement ?

You don't have to get burned to know that fire is hot,..Az.

I tend to study a bit, by using the available information on the boards,

before , I throw my money away, but hey, that's just me.

However in this case, years of being there, gave me what I needed to know..

Jake, good job egging your Az hero on... you really picked a winner,.. someone who has made

zero contributions on this board, who's first post was to try to sell a watch without following the board

rules then to argue about it using his profession in a sorry attempt to intimate.

V,... Thanks,.. seems however that you can't teach common sense to some, who put

their own need to be right, misplaced loyalties, or hero syndrome, over the need for our

members, especially the new and uninitiated, to be better safe, than sorry.

[jake48]

Jake, good job egging your Az hero on... you really picked a winner,.. someone who has made

zero contributions on this board, who's first post was to try to sell a watch without following the board

rules then to argue about it using his profession in a sorry attempt to intimate.

Yeah, I admit what I wrote has a little A$$ ki$$ sound to it, but you have to admit, Az is one heck of a writer.

You don't write that bad either RT and truthfully I am not trying to "egg" anyone on. No one on the net ever really needs any help in that department, trust me.

This is usually where my common sense meter kicks in and I bow out...

Feel free to PM me if you want to rant on, no sense making this thing longer and more drawn out then it needs to be.

Good luck my friend.

[Pugwash]

Yeah, I admit what I wrote has a little A$$ ki$$ sound to it, but you have to admit, Az is one heck of a writer.

If all it takes is concise and erudite use of the English language to win you over, then I can present a well hypothesised inferral that would necessitate the proximity of a thesaurus. Would that it were the case that a grasp of language be all that were needed to end this discussion, Joe's pugilistic approach to meting out phrases as short, incoherent infant-speak, as like a teen thumbing a Nokia's much put upon interface, should put that matter to rest.