Pix Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 The thing I just can not understand is why can invicta croton ...etc. make a quality watch and sell it for $100.00 with a lifetime warr(croton) and a $700.00 rep is a piece of [censored]? I'll try : why are fake passports more expensive than genuine ones ? I wondered the same about a brand I like to buy from time to time on the bay : Trias. Under 100 dollars you get 2 years warranty. Our choice... But I don't agree either on these inflating prices, for the simple reason I can't afford them... And so do probably many. Of course, when we're answering polls where everyone's supposed to earn between 75 and 150 K per year, dealers use their brain and are confident in selling those high prices. An other proof of where boastfullness is leading ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 It's taken me this long to chip in, but here goes. Super reps my [censored]. They are simply better than average reps at ever inflating prices. The supremely accurate rep is not a new phenomenon (despite the impression of the last six months). What is so unusual now is for a rep to be so spot on first time and to appear from one source only, which allows for premium pricing on release. Cartel, anyone?!?! I'm of the opinion that the 'early adopters' can pay what the bloomin' hell they like. Market forces will drive the prices down as the more shrewd buyer waits. Oh, and with regards to that premium pricing, Silix are now undercutting the cartel on a Ferrari PAM by $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Certainly sympathetic to that point of view. But look at the bright side - you can still buy many of the original reps that got you excited for the same or less than for what they were previously offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 It's taken me this long to chip in, but here goes. Super reps my [censored]. They are simply better than average reps at ever inflating prices. The supremely accurate rep is not a new phenomenon (despite the impression of the last six months). What is so unusual now is for a rep to be so spot on first time and to appear from one source only, which allows for premium pricing on release. Cartel, anyone?!?! I'm of the opinion that the 'early adopters' can pay what the bloomin' hell they like. Market forces will drive the prices down as the more shrewd buyer waits. Oh, and with regards to that premium pricing, Silix are now undercutting the cartel on a Ferrari PAM by $50. I have to agree. I used to be of the opinion that super reps were the 2nd coming. However, looking back, some of the reps we have seen in the past, such as the SMP Chrono, IWC Gst, Tag Heuer Link Chrono, UPO etc..... are just as good. The main differences are; They come from a different factory that doesn't offer double AR, We don't have any input on them, They don't receive the hype. Now these new reps are very good, don't get me wrong, however I think they are in the same category as the previous gens of great replicas, such as the aforementioned. They are 'super' reps, but they are not 'super reps' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 They come from a different factory that doesn't offer double AR, We are still all so tied-up on this AR thing. So much so that people jump to criticise a rep automatically for not having it without actually checking that the genuine watch has it. Also, double-sided AR is not new. My Breitling Seawolf Ti (18 month vintage) has it, as did the Chrono Avengers of the time... As I said, we are not seeing anything new, just some rep makers getting their acts together a little quicker. The marketing strategy has changed and they are no longer going for the 'double dip' of releasing a flawed rep at a reasonable price that some will jump on, and then improving it bringing the rest on board and getting the original adopters to buy the 'next generation. Now they release the 'ultimate' version straight away and inflate the price, and the same initial band of people jump on but hand over three times the cash as before. Later adopters get the same thing at the proper market price once the novelty wears off a little. Silix pricing of the Ferrari PAM actually undercuts their own typical A7750 prices from about a year ago, so it just goes to show cartel pricing is all about greed - not improvements in spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 yes this is true, I have seen a few posts about the SMPs not having AR, however neither does the gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 High end reps have existed for quite a while. That hasn't changed. What has changed in the last 18 months is far more professionalization in the rep industry. Factories have upgraded their equipment to include better CNC equipment. Factories and/or large dealers are now regularly investing the upfront money to buy the gen, taking comments from dealers and trying to get it as good as possible the first time. With the larger runs necessary for more complex watches even the factories do not want to be stuck with somethig they can't sell. I will always be thankful to Honpo for being the first to recognize that their market (Japan) would pay $1,000 for a really good rep. I used to resort to having a Japanese speaking member write for me to source their product. Now it is largely available thru others and their is plenty of great product they don't have. From an industry perspective, second generation reps now have more subtle improvements rather than having to redo a completely wrong dial or wrong case size. That perfect SMP, Fiddy or whatever only came about after numerous generations of relatively simple watches. To get an HBB with all its parts or Cousteau with solid rotating inner bezel and correct pushers (aesthetically and functionally) in one shot is years ahead of where the industry was 2 years ago. Wait until we see those 8 day movements later in the year. Now all they have to do is improve QC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Wait until we see those 8 day movements later in the year. Wow! Is it a guess, or a rumor, or reliable news, kruzer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Wow! Is it a guess, or a rumor, or reliable news, kruzer? I'd rate it as a very educated guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo_till Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 As The Zigmeister said, the Asian 7750 is a very good movement once you get it serviced.. Then it will work as long as the Swiss 7750, because there is no reason why it shouldn't. So what's the deal? Why are you guys so against this movement in the super reps? You just have to get it serviced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWR Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 What I don't get is why people are convinced that these watches are so expensive. It's just a couple of dealers (ahem) raising their prices. Steelfish, 330 shipped or so from Josh or Andrew, 300 shipped (with both bracelet AND strap) from King. New Chopard MM GMT Chrono, $340 or something not including shipping from Josh or Andrew, $278 from Ruby. The new red Ferrari is like $330 from Josh and Andrew too, and it's not that much from other dealers. I understand the $300 for a rep with great AR. but the fact of the matter is that $300+ for the red ferrari chrono is retarded when it's available for a LOT less from other dealers. Josh and Andrew aren't the only dealers around. Eddie's always been expensive with the first-run new models... you just have to poke around a little to find the deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brook0 Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 $330.00 + $200.00 = $530.00 + shipping costs $600.00 ridiculous. Sell the watch without movement for $100.00 and we can install our own movement? They maybe could use better screwdowns that work! Buy a donor watch and you have something worth while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo1nah2a Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I'd rate it as a very educated guess. 8day? Single release of a caliber that will have 8days PR? Or maybe the average of three releases :an iwc auto 7 day, an angelus manual 8 day, and triple barrel panerai 10 day? Hey, a man can dream, right? Any other educated guesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 8day? Single release of a caliber that will have 8days PR? Or looks like the 8-day. Come on, these are replicas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo1nah2a Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Or looks like the 8-day. Come on, these are replicas. I know this is out of proportion, but the asian6497 seem to have a better PR than the swiss counterpart. Ok, this is in a well known caliber, and very less demanding in tollerences than the ones required for the top tier calibers. But, I have a feeling that we will see a real 8day. There are pocket watches made over 100 years old that do 8days. And if it wasn't for the panerai frenzy, we could get an angelus sf240 for something like 200e before restoring. I can't believe that manufacturing one angelus copy, in the light of "Factories have upgraded their equipment to include better CNC equipment", is impossible. (7 day autos and triple barrels are out of the question for me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 But, I have a feeling that we will see a real 8day. I'll take that bet. $10? I'll accept iTunes vouchers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo1nah2a Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I'll take that bet. $10? I'll accept iTunes vouchers ... What are the odds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I can't believe that manufacturing one angelus copy ... is impossible. (7 day autos and triple barrels are out of the question for me) Same thoughts here. And even just replying the outer plates and look of an 8 day movement would sell like crazy, I would bet. I have a couple brown dials here that are just waiting for something that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I am with Pug. The rep movement will most likely have the correct bridges but not full double barrel movement. You can dream though. The Chinese now make a tourbillon that is more reliable than the Swiss. Hope springs eternal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo1nah2a Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I am with Pug. The rep movement will most likely have the correct bridges but not full double barrel movement. You can dream though. The Chinese now make a tourbillon that is more reliable than the Swiss. Hope springs eternal. Just like many of us, I am more interested in the function than the form of the calibers.If they are planing to change the bridges of a 6497 to make it look like an A SF240 or JLC8day (sounds like like Shaq on high heels, noway..), then I am not interested. If they are going to release a completely new caliber, then it is easier to copy an existing one. The problem here is that (unlike the correted bridges 6497) this long autonomy caliber can't find its place in more than a couple of models.. This is why it might be less profitable and riksier for them. I see more profit in replicating a 7753 or a valgranges a07.211. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brook0 Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 OK, got the YM from Bklm and it is a super rep! $110.00 shipped. IMHO this is what the rep buisness should be all about! If it is a fake lets make it a FAKE and as cheap as possible, that is why we are here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 I prefer to think of it as "homage". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsea Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 (edited) Actually I think the cost of the gen is incredibly relevant. When people say I am not going to buy a $400 Asian rep of the Cousteau but a gen instead which gen are you referring to? Are you planning on outlaying $7,000 for the gen or are you going to buy a $1,000 gen which bears no resemblance to the watch you originally wanted? both ways are OK for me... either keeping $7000 for gen cousteau or giving $1500 to another cheap gen. I have both reps and gens. $300 is my limit for a replica. excluding modifications. I'll never give a grand or more for a real Asian 8 days movement watch. (I mean if they ever make it) because it is replica. don't get me wrong. I love my replicas... but after all they are just replicas... I am very happy with my Cousteau as it functioned perfectly out of the box. Problem is this buddy (at least for me) it is not a real IWC Cousteau! I'd give $200-250 to this watch with an Asian movement. and maybe $100 for modifications. but $700 is enormous for me... It is not about money. It is about point of view. For ex. I can give $3500 to a gen panerai 111... but I'll never give $1200 to a gen panerai movement alone to fit my rep Panerai. Edited June 18, 2007 by deepsea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lcdr2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 http://www.ttwristwatch.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1671&zenid=d8bc57b00d90d797cfad0f2ebb2f1138 Is this the latest example of the creeping 'super' rep inflation? Maybe these guys are testing the waters, seeing just how far they can push the edge of the cost envelope. After seeing all the gushing over the Steelfish and the Cousteau I guess I'd try the same tactic. As for me, I'll pick up one or two more pieces I've had my eye on, then I'm going to be strictly a spectator 'til this goes back to being an affordable hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Is this the latest example of the creeping 'super' rep inflation? Trying to recoup the costs of the seconds-at-3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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