Stephane Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Hi All, As some of you may know, I'm feeling bad about the persons "suck*ng knowledge" without financial contribution. Is it wrong to be a Noob? NOOOOOOO Everybody is a noob compared to someone else! Is it wrong to be apprentice? NOOOOOOO Everybody has got to learn sometimes! Is it wrong to stay apprentice for more than a couple or weeks? YEAAAAA But that is my very own opinion only. So, I want to post again and again about places that deserve some support. Don't you think this place deserve support? So, my first question to you guys, the long term apprentices, the very very old apprentices is: are you so short in money that you cannot even afford 30$ for a yearly VIP membership? My second question is: if you can afford buying reps (or even gens), how come you cannot send 30$ to the Admin of this place? Come on, stop suck*ng and start to contribute! Cheers Stephane The messages express the views of the author of the message, NOT the views of RWGs admin. The RWG admin will remove any objectionable messages immediately upon being contacted concerning objectionable material. We reserve the right to delete any message for any reason. All information found on this website is to be used for educational purposes only, and cannot be used to conduct illegal activites of any sort. By reading the material on this website, you agree to assume full responsibility for any actions and consequences from the use, misuse or abuse of any of the information found on this website. You agree to hold this website, it's owners, operators and agents harmless from any lawsuit or legal actions as a result of your actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Come on, stop suck*ng and start to contribute! Wait, am I missing something, or has this situation changed (checked just this instant)? "The upgrade system is currently anavailable while we are implementing a new payment provider. Thanks for your patience" At the moment our hands are tied, I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Mmm...Stephane, I think we're stuck Basically I agree with you, what are 30 dollars compared to the money spent in our expensive hobby ? But vbarrett is right too, eh eh... May I add the philosophical thingie : "we're all ignorants, but we do not ignore the same thing..." :cc_chinese: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted June 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 May I add the philosophical thingie : "we're all ignorants, but we do not ignore the same thing..." :cc_chinese: Joli Pix. But, the upgrade system is not down for months, or is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 I ignored that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 May I add the philosophical thingie : "we're all ignorants, but we do not ignore the same thing..." :cc_chinese: Heh, great quote. Me, I'm just concerned that people are disrespected, or even bullied if they are not paying members. I recently mentioned that in the happily defunct SF Pride thread, where I was shocked to have the VIP status thrown in my face. I said it was the equivalent of a rich guy going up to a homeless person, and telling them they are worthless in society, because you contribute, and they don't. (Well, I said something about being smelly, but basically that's what I meant) What with the upgrade system being down, this whole VIP status thingie is really annoying, elitist, and leaves a bad taste in my mouth if there are some here who think they are better than others. That's not cool IRL, and it shouldn't be cool here. Anyway, off to enjoy me day. Ciao all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Yeah.. enough with the whole nagging people to pay.. however good your motives and argumentations are. There's been a few incidents lately. Let people do it on their own accord, with a friendly reminder from the admin now and then. Including behaviour is more likely to get people to feel 'at home' here, and thus want to contribute, both financially and knowledgewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Lets hope RWG get the payment thingy going again...I've tried to contribute myself but to no avail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 vbarrett, I almost agree with you. We don't need medals on our chests, so the VIP Elite Superwow Member status is not absolutely the best thing to throw at someone's face. Doing so would be a lack of intelligence. Which is more important is the background of the thing : support financially the place that allows us to share all these fantastic things on our hobby. Not a question of Rich or Poor, of Robin Hood or Don Quixotte, just support, nothing else. I would never use neither my posts amount nor my VIP status or whatever to show who I am. Just using my brain for this. But again, I think Stephane's right : we owe the boards something. And 30 dollars is finally not a lot. Mmm... it seems I'm going in a discussion which is usually not my field (moral things), but, hey, it's important ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted July 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Ok Guys, no offense to anybody. My goal is to push the financial contribution, nothing else. Pix is right: VIP doens't make anybody "better" or "more repected". Neither does the post count. We all learn everyday in this hobby like in real life. My intention in this thread is to say: throw 30$ to help the board, that's it. But, of course, if some guys prefer to save 30$, that's fine. Every opinion is repectable. In this case they should not be allowed to sniff all the valuable informations from here after a certain "free trial period". That's all I meant. Cheers Stephane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppen Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Yeah.. enough with the whole nagging people to pay.. however good your motives and argumentations are. There's been a few incidents lately. Let people do it on their own accord, with a friendly reminder from the admin now and then. Including behaviour is more likely to get people to feel 'at home' here, and thus want to contribute, both financially and knowledgewise. totally agree, people should do it of their own volition, this constant cajoling people to pay, is not only distasteful, but not your (Stephane's) place at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elprimerozen Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 I made VIP just to have all the infos i need!And to support the forum.... thanks to VIP membership i have trade goods and parts...and bought some new toys....simple as that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 totally agree, people should do it of their own volition, this constant cajoling people to pay, is not only distasteful, but not your (Stephane's) place at all. I totally agree there. Stephane, you're a good guy, but seriously, you have no business whatsoever cajoling people to pay. As mentioned, it is distastefull, makes you sound like a jerk for doing it, and certainly makes you lose respect. To be clear, I have no intention of ever subscribing to this forum. I contribute to the forum by sharing information with others, just as others shared information with me, and, when I get my 2531.80 SMP back, I will be writing a comparitive review for everyone's benefit. I know you mean well, but seriously, it does not come across as anything other than harassing people for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 To be clear, I have no intention of ever subscribing to this forum. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Why? Because I have no intention in giving financial support to a forum which still allows the Cartel Dealers a place, enabling them to 'shoot fish in a barrel', so I make my contributions to the community by helping and advising others where I can. Also, I don't think the ability to read the VIP forum, sell things (which I don't want to sell) or edit my posts is worth $30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Personally I didn't subscribe to the forum to get access to said areas. I contributed because it costs alot to keep this place running, and I aswell contribute information to this forum, but without money, I would not be able to do so, or learn from others posts. For the sake of $30 per year (0.08 dollars a day) I can make a tiny contribution to help this place running. For me it is not about getting access to areas, it is to ensure that a forum as great as this keeps running so I can continue to contribute information, and continue to learn from information contributed by others like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Oh, I hate myself for entering so seriously in the discussion, I have always tried to stick to sharing my hobby exclusively. But... Teejay, I respect your point of view, basically I respect all points of views when expressed in a gentle manner (the way you did). But as far as the support to the Cartel dealers is concerned, without going into blaming them or not, I feel that the less supportive board to them is RWG : the collector's section is only accesible to VIP members, and there is no list of supported dealers, as we have it on RWI or the newest Repgeek boards. Don't misundersand what I'm writing, I share my time there too (basically, the more, the better !). Just, I don't have the feeling that RWG is letting dealers hunt for naive customers (BTW, we're more or less all aware of what is expensive and what isn't) Let's all agree that noone should be harassed/blamed if he does not financially contribute, as long as he contributes in sharing pics, knowledge, time. But noone should forget that it's risky, money and time consuming to run a rep board (although I don't know the details, but I am convinced of it, as I've been actively involved in other boards during 3 years). May I suggest to stick to the general idea of Stephane (financial contribution is most important but not compulsory), and forget about the way things might have been expressed by some of us, not turning the thread into pros and cons of VIP membership. I find this useless, sad and it just makes my day worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Personally I didn't subscribe to the forum to get access to said areas. I contributed because it costs alot to keep this place running, and I aswell contribute information to this forum, but without money, I would not be able to do so, or learn from others posts. For the sake of $30 per year (0.08 dollars a day) I can make a tiny contribution to help this place running. For me it is not about getting access to areas, it is to ensure that a forum as great as this keeps running so I can continue to contribute information, and continue to learn from information contributed by others like yourself. It's not the amount that concerns me, it is the principle. Edge pointed out the Cartel's behaviour, yet people still not only tollerate them, but virtually worship them, and the admins allows them to continue to attract business via the forum. There is no way I am prepared to give financial assistance to a forum which continues to tollerate proven liars. There is a distinction here between 'the forum', as a commercial entity, and 'the community', of people who post on it. Given my experience with Silix, I am going to stick with the CQout dealers who I know I can trust, because I have personally dealt with them. I'm not bothered about 'Super Reps', so what do I need the 'trusted collectors' for? As I say, this is about principle, not cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Oh, I hate myself for entering so seriously in the discussion, I have always tried to stick to sharing my hobby exclusively. But... Teejay, I respect your point of view, basically I respect all points of views when expressed in a gentle manner (the way you did). But as far as the support to the Cartel dealers is concerned, without going into blaming them or not, I feel that the less supportive board to them is RWG : the collector's section is only accesible to VIP members, and there is no list of supported dealers, as we have it on RWI or the newest Repgeek boards. Don't misundersand what I'm writing, I share my time there too (basically, the more, the better !). Just, I don't have the feeling that RWG is letting dealers hunt for naive customers (BTW, we're more or less all aware of what is expensive and what isn't) And I totally appreciate what you're saying. Sure, the collector's section might not be accessible to VIP members, but the collectors are still discussed and praised on open forum. As I just pointed out (apologies for missing your post) the behaviour of Cartel Dealers has been established and proven, yet people are still prepared to do business with them. Which is fine, it's totally up to an individual who someone does or does not do business with. But, I don't think they should be so openly praised, when there has been irrefuteable evidence of 'dishonesty' on their part. As for Repgeek, note how one of the dealers offered a 'members special'? Note how it is actually a watch that hardly anyone discusses, rather than something popular, like the APROO, BB or even just an SMP. That 'gesture', strikes me as nothing more than a blatant attempt to offload a lot of unpopular stock, by making it look like a goodwill gesture. Another forum I moderate on has an active filter (like the cuss filter) but it has had certain people's names added. Personally, I think that should be the case here too. If people want to show folks a watch they purchassed, then no problem, but any discussion of dealer names, should remain totally private and off forum, so newcomers who might no know of certain collectors reputations will be unlikely to 'pull the trigger', and wind up getting ripped off. Look at my ongoing recent experience with Silix. I only went with them because they were the only person who sells the watch. Were it not for that reason, I would have stuck with my own trusted dealer, and, given the problems the watch came with, I really wish I hadn't bothered buying It is reasons like this, which is why I will not subscribe, and, as people mentioned above, heckling people to pay to subscribe, or made to feel any less a member of the community because of that, are simply distastefull and inappropriate. That's my feeling on the matter at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 It's not the amount that concerns me, it is the principle. Edge pointed out the Cartel's behaviour, yet people still not only tollerate them, but virtually worship them, and the admins allows them to continue to attract business via the forum. There is no way I am prepared to give financial assistance to a forum which continues to tollerate proven liars. There is a distinction here between 'the forum', as a commercial entity, and 'the community', of people who post on it. Given my experience with Silix, I am going to stick with the CQout dealers who I know I can trust, because I have personally dealt with them. I'm not bothered about 'Super Reps', so what do I need the 'trusted collectors' for? As I say, this is about principle, not cost. Im not sure I completely understand your point here. What I am about to post isn't intended to come across argunmentative, but purely a healthy good spirited discussion Is it that due to the VIP membership, it gives access to the section of collectors and therefore, due to your view famous four (which is completely justified I might add) it is furthering their business? If that is what you mean, I understand that. However, Im on the other side of the fence, and contribute because without money, this forum will go down the plughole. Although there was some controversy, and this topic should not turn into a debate on the integrity of our collectors, as this has been done too much in the past, could it not be hypocrytical to say you don't support the board due to their support of the collectors, but are still willing to post and get information from it for free? I can completely understand why you would stick with Silix, he is a great collector. However, In order for this forum to survive, and for noobs to have access to such dealers, it is vital that contributions are given to the board, so that it can be maintained? I also fully understand that this should not be preached, and people should not be forcd into such membership, this forum is not run in a dictatorship styled fashion, and I think it's good that it allows access to a great deal of info for free. For me the VIP membership isn't about status, getting access to info, getting access to collectors, it is about the preservation of the future of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 TJ : Understood From my side, when showing my latest aquisitions (very important part in that hobby as far as I'm concerned, if not the most important), it's difficult not to say where it comes from. I know that the question will be raised if I don't mention the dealer's name. I have since the recent events on RWG2 learnt not to link directly to any website, but still, if I'm satisfied with a deal, I feel it's fair to say it. Not only for the dealer, but before all for the readers that come after me and may want to have a similar experience. The same way I expect dissatisfied members to express their opinion on the same dealers. It just makes us stronger. It seems we're turning into a Cartel / non Cartel dealers discussion : to be honest, I disagree on their recent pring policy (check my thread about the Asian SFSO from Ruby), but my worst experiences were not with them. They have now become my last choice (if I can source a watch elsewhere, I do it), but they remain possible suppliers, because except their price (and the usual "little? white lies" which seem to be a common behaviour everywhere), I find nice things in their range, and still affordable ones. To make it clear, and not acting as a shill for them, I came to this conclusion after having delt with PC, TT, Silix, Ruby, River, Sashwatch, and with Narikaa to some extent (pens only). I also know who I will never deal with Yes, some dealers never ever answered my inquiries (which are always done in a convenient and gentle way) : I blame them much more than the ones being "too kind" with me, because I don't feel anyone makes me a favour when selling me a rep, just they do business, where I'm the customer and they're the vendor. Even if that's an illegal business, relationship should be the same : there's one seller and one buyer. How far I went from Stephane's thread. Maybe that therapy was necessary for me, as I rarely express "political" issues. Oh, and I agree, the special price for the Chopard might be overstock, but on the other hand, I have only seen satisfied owners of the Asian version. We should not forget that what is a hobby for all of us is nothing but business for our esteemed collectors. They won't discount a top seller item. So, if I don't agree on all what they do, I understand at least. May I end with what is most important for me... I would never had made such a good bargain without the existence of this very board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Im not sure I completely understand your point here. What I am about to post isn't intended to come across argunmentative, but purely a healthy good spirited discussion Is it that due to the VIP membership, it gives access to the section of collectors and therefore, due to your view famous four (which is completely justified I might add) it is furthering their business? If that is what you mean, I understand that. However, Im on the other side of the fence, and contribute because without money, this forum will go down the plughole. Although there was some controversy, and this topic should not turn into a debate on the integrity of our collectors, as this has been done too much in the past, could it not be hypocrytical to say you don't support the board due to their support of the collectors, but are still willing to post and get information from it for free? I can completely understand why you would stick with Silix, he is a great collector. However, In order for this forum to survive, and for noobs to have access to such dealers, it is vital that contributions are given to the board, so that it can be maintained? I also fully understand that this should not be preached, and people should not be forcd into such membership, this forum is not run in a dictatorship styled fashion, and I think it's good that it allows access to a great deal of info for free. For me the VIP membership isn't about status, getting access to info, getting access to collectors, it is about the preservation of the future of this forum. Yes, that was what I meant I agree, it should not become a debate about collector's honesty, I was merely explaining that I personally did not want to contribute money to support a forum which allows said collectors to 'shoot fish in the barrel'. I think you misunderstood my point, I am not at all happy with the deal I got from Silix. The point I was making, was that if the watch I wanted was available via other dealers, I would have gone to them. This is the only time I have used a 'forum collector', and it is also the only time I have been shipped a watch which was mechanically faulty, in a manner any visual inspection by said collector would have revealed. I wish I never bought the watch from Silix, and wish I had stuck with my own trusted dealers. I am hoping Silix will send me the replacement parts necessary for me to fix my watch, because the alternative suggestions that I either ship it back for repair (at my expence) or have a replacement shipped out (at my expence) are simply unnacceptable... Indeed, VIP status isn't something which should be preached, but, as pointed out by other posters above, it is, and that is simply distasteful behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Absolutely. To break down a few points TJ : Understood From my side, when showing my latest aquisitions (very important part in that hobby as far as I'm concerned, if not the most important), it's difficult not to say where it comes from. I know that the question will be raised if I don't mention the dealer's name. I have since the recent events on RWG2 learnt not to link directly to any website, but still, if I'm satisfied with a deal, I feel it's fair to say it. Not only for the dealer, but before all for the readers that come after me and may want to have a similar experience. The same way I expect dissatisfied members to express their opinion on the same dealers. It just makes us stronger. Personally, I strive now to only detail the watch, and the deal itself, and simply offer to pass on the dealer's name privately to interested parties. While I agree, people should definitely express opinions when dissatisfied with dealers, I feel it needs to be done in a balanced way, such as in the dealer review forum. Sadly, that is restricted to VIP members, so I find that somewhat counter-productive... It seems we're turning into a Cartel / non Cartel dealers discussion : to be honest, I disagree on their recent pring policy (check my thread about the Asian SFSO from Ruby), but my worst experiences were not with them. They have now become my last choice (if I can source a watch elsewhere, I do it), but they remain possible suppliers, because except their price (and the usual "little? white lies" which seem to be a common behaviour everywhere), I find nice things in their range, and still affordable ones. To make it clear, and not acting as a shill for them, I came to this conclusion after having delt with PC, TT, Silix, Ruby, River, Sashwatch, and with Narikaa to some extent (pens only). I also know who I will never deal with Yes, some dealers never ever answered my inquiries (which are always done in a convenient and gentle way) : I blame them much more than the ones being "too kind" with me, because I don't feel anyone makes me a favour when selling me a rep, just they do business, where I'm the customer and they're the vendor. Even if that's an illegal business, relationship should be the same : there's one seller and one buyer. That's cool, I totally understand your point of view there. I just find it interesting that I have had excellent deals with dealers who are not even discussed on these forums, and who are regarded pretty low in the pecking order, but when I actually do business with one of the 'trusted collectors', I wind up with an express delivery not being shipped out for 7 days after payment, and then wind up with a watch with a dying movement... Sure, my 'other dealer' watches might not be running, but that's because I killed them with my tinkering, 'out of the box', they were fine... Oh, and I agree, the special price for the Chopard might be overstock, but on the other hand, I have only seen satisfied owners of the Asian version. We should not forget that what is a hobby for all of us is nothing but business for our esteemed collectors. They won't discount a top seller item. So, if I don't agree on all what they do, I understand at least. Might be overstock? Oh I agree, it is a business for them, and no, perhaps a top selling item like the APROO or BB might not be discounted, but look at the humble 2531.80. The community's oft overlooked favorite. Early versions of this watch had 3 markers. The most recent versions (available via the Cartel and Silix) have been sent missing the marker, and if someone then complained, they would be sent a replacement dial. Why the sudden backslide in quality? What if the buyer had not complained? I bet they wouldn't get sent the replacement dial as well... But I'm getting off point... The SMP (particularly the flawed version) would be no problem to discount as a "member's special". Sure, the Chopard might be a nice watch which it's buyers were happy with, the point I was making though, was that in general, it is not a particularly popular watch, compared to some other watches, and that was what made me scheptical of it as a 'goodwill gesture' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 I was merely explaining that I personally did not want to contribute money to support a forum which allows said collectors to 'shoot fish in the barrel'. That doesn't make any sense. The forum helps to protect buyers from out-and-out scam artists, you can't do that and have a free for all. There is a free for all for rep watches - it's called Google. I don't think you can have it both ways either. It's your prerogative not to pay, but you can't not pay and get humpty with the folk that pay for it all too. There have been many recruitment drives before, to remind folk that it costs money to run the joint. Nothing wrong with Stephane's post in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppen Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Nothing wrong with Stephane's post in my eyes. This has not been the first instance of Stephane on his crusade, there have been posts where a new member will ask a question, it will be answered by the experts here, then Stephane will jump down the guys throat about contributing, before the member has even been here a few weeks, this is wrong in my opinion, and as i have stated before, simply not his place. It appears to me that he is caught up in 'rep fever' now and this over-zealousness of his, is innocent, but it shouldnt be condoned I'm sure his photo's and reviews are enjoyed by the community and are as of a result of his enthusiasm, but this unfortunate bi-product of his enthusiasm should be curbed, because it's really lacking in taste. Just my 0.02 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts