Jawo Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I went on trustytime's new site and noticed a couple of simularity to perfectclones. The first is the "88" in both website names. the second is that trustytime is now molasses slow like Joshua's. I ran a dos command at the prompt to do a trace of the websites. They both end up at the same server and same homepage origin. This leads me to believe that they have merged their operations. Is this coincidental or are they the same people? Try this yourself.... type tracert (website) for both addys. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 What are your thoughts? Hey, Jawo. Here is a thread on 4 August (also punchy and contentious!) where the group discussed exactly what you ask. That's my post specifically, where I mentioned similarities between both gentlemen, and not just their websites. However, the upshot from me at least is that they are different people, because as I said, it's incredible that Andrew does what he does as one man. If you were to tell me he is doing the work of two, that would be miraculous. At least, IMHO. http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&...st&p=294273 http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&...st&p=294281 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawo Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hey, Jawo. Here is a thread on 4 August (also punchy and contentious!) where the group discussed exactly what you ask. That's my post specifically, where I mentioned similarities between both gentlemen, and not just their websites. However, the upshot from me at least is that they are different people, because as I said, it's incredible that Andrew does what he does as one man. If you were to tell me he is doing the work of two, that would be miraculous. At least, IMHO. http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&...st&p=294273 I know they are 2 different people. At least I think so. They are still both my favorite dealers. They have given me remarkable service and I know they work incredibly hard. I am almost hoping they are working together so I can get better deals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I know they are 2 different people. At least I think so. They are still both my favorite dealers. They have given me remarkable service and I know they work incredibly hard. I am almost hoping they are working together so I can get better deals I think there is a dynamic at work here that worries people. If this topic becomes contentious again, perhaps it's more reasonable that it should, than more personal confrontations we've seen today because it does affect ALL of us more directly. I think most people will agree that monopolies are not good for free-market business. That's the number one problem people have with this "merger", if indeed it is one. But perhaps they are simply formalising a business partnership they have had all along. If that's the case, it's not a concern, but an irritant based on perception. The other allegations, of parts replacing, price gouging/rigging, are more worrisome. If someone can come up with a detailed factual list of such occurences, that would be one thing. Otherwise, it's just hearsay which could even be explained as a misunderstanding (and apparently, has). Slippery business this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hey, Jawo. Here is a thread on 4 August (also punchy and contentious!) where the group discussed exactly what you ask. That's my post specifically, where I mentioned similarities between both gentlemen, and not just their websites. However, the upshot from me at least is that they are different people, because as I said, it's incredible that Andrew does what he does as one man. If you were to tell me he is doing the work of two, that would be miraculous. At least, IMHO. http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&...st&p=294273 FYI ... they have not "merged" ... what it is .... Joshua and Andrew are very good friends and as such combine on projects with different makers .. joshua being the senior of the two ... meaning he has cultivated many contacts and helps other dealers with his contacts.. in other words he does not compete in the predatory way that companies do in this age... predatory companies are common these day's It is no secret that this is true ... because of certain dealers commitments to the makers they are able to create change for the better in the Rep industry .. Joshua and Andrew are two such dealers .. ie. the attempt at better fonts and cyclops... I am sharing this so that there are no conspiracy theories ... they both have provided exellent customer service after the purchase ... so please don't interpret this as me trying to promote one dealer over the others..it is better for customs that i deal with Joshua and Andrew If i had a good web master for example and a friend did not ... as are somethings in the business i am contracted for ... we would help each other out.. i am assuming that if i had 100 products and needed help moving some of it i would sub contract a friend to help me... i am not saying this is what is happening but it could be one possible senario.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Jawo, The pretty blond in your avatar keeps saying "Do you want to fight me?" What exactly is her problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Jawo, The pretty blond in your avatar keeps saying "Do you want to fight me?" What exactly is her problem? I think it's "Do you wanna F A R T me?". I believe she's the new Tagamet acid-reflux spokesperson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Josh & Andrew have been in for quite some time... Capitalism at it's best... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Ms. Barrett, While we're on the subject of avatars, I've been meaning to talk to you about yours: I don't know how or where you obtained it, but I'm not at all happy with you using that picture of my mother. It's embarrassing enough that she imagines that she's the reincarnation of Yassir Arafat, but to be constantly reminded of the fact while I'm here trying to escape her delirium (not to mention the stray rounds from her Kalashnikov) is slightly more than I can take. What happened to the babe in the bra? It was so much more soothing. By the way, don't you ever sleep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Ms. Barrett, I've been meaning to talk to you about your avatar: I don't know how or where you obtained it, but I'm not at all happy with you using this picture of my mother. don't you ever sleep? @J Didn't you know that she's JF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Ms. Barrett, Miss, actually! I only have one bra, and it's unburnt. Mind you, I wash it every night. While we're on the subject of avatars, I've been meaning to talk to you about yours: I don't know how or where you obtained it, but I'm not at all happy with you using that picture of my mother. It's embarrassing enough that she imagines that she's the reincarnation of Yassir Arafat, but to be constantly reminded of the fact while I'm here trying to escape her delirium (not to mention the stray rounds from her Kalashnikov) is slightly more than I can take. Sorry memsahib, for poaching your mater's pic. I should've known better than to go lifting photos off of the "Kabul Beauty Salon" website, but there we are. We were all newbies once, before upgrading to VIP. What happened to the babe in the bra? WHICH REMINDS ME! Why is it that I'm providing free pr0n for lusty males. I should be posting pics of dazzling Italian hunks at least three shades darker than my fine self. It was so much more soothing. Soothing is a matter of preference. I prefer to take Horlick's ever since I heard their catchy advert jingle, "Ever lick a hor? Well, it tastes just like that." By the way, don't you ever sleep? Oh, Ryyannon. You're obsessed with my sleeping habits, my love. Next thing you know, you'll be camping outside my window like that Cuban guy who stalked Bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Interesting avatar change: he seems very pleased to be yours: 'I REALLY like it here!' That's right, Sparky, but remember that there are lots more where you came from. Think South Beach. For the moment, though, you two do make a nice couple: Grin and Barrett, as it were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Now you two stop playing footsie. Hurry up and carve your initials in the tree. Back to the topic at hand. Definitely two people in two different locations. And yes they work together closely along with one or two others. If you can remember way back there was a time a few years ago when Andrew was selling only lower end reps. But he was the first of the two (but after Paul and King) to put up his own website. Joshua followed. Then dealers got a glimpse of the future. That future came from Honpo. They were the first that I am aware of to buy gens and work with the factories to come out with more expensive exclusives. They had the benefit of serving the best rep market on the planet - Japan. Ultimately, they were slowed down when they were busted in a very public bust in Japan and subsequently had to move all their operations off-shore. To this day though, you cannot find the 194 with ti case anywhere but from them. I do hope we will see it eventually. People complain that the new Super Reps are very expensive. Well, if you ever bought from Honpo you know the exclusives were always expensive. First 2893-A2 PAM's were $800 or more. The Asian 7750 187 was $800. And they did these projects with 150 piece minimums in return for limited period exclusives. Fast forward to today and the high end rep industry has exploded. New brands proliferate. Try buying a good Breitling (Chrono ti excepted) or IWC 2-3 years ago. Factories are now bigger and have their own set of demands. Runs are larger. Minimums are higher. Even cost per unit is up. Many smaller dealers including a couple who we all knew and loved here disappear. And thus we see the "buying cooperative" which has morphed into the "designing and sell exclusive cooperative". It is pretty amusing that ultimately the best profitability is in the form of "proprietary" branded product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) I've actually doubted that Trustytime is actually a one man show like we assume. I've purchased several pieces from Andrew (I guess..hell that may not even be his name??) and of course, had several problems. His emails were usually responded to immediately, at any hour. One man?? I also noticed a big difference it the "attitude" of who ever was answering my emails. I emailed one night about a problem I had with a watch that had just arrived. The person that answered was NO help....acted like they didn't even really know what a watch was.....total stupid mode. I got really [censored] and email again the next morning....then everything was fine, he sent me another watch and I actually offered to return the first one, I don't really thing he expected me to but after all, he was sending me a replacement. I can say that I'm not pleased with Trustytimes price increase. Of all of the watches I bought from Andrew, I had problems with 50%. The last transaction I had was about the last straw. I bought a modern Sub nodate and when it arrived, it was total crap. Not even the one pictured on his site (which was a fairly accurate 14060m with lug holes). The one that came in was just one of his regular modern Sub cases (no lug holes-conical rehaut) with a hidious dial. The fonts were not even close and the markers were tiny. He let me swap it for an ETA "Steve McQueen" Explorer. I had already purchased an asian "Steve McQueen" from him that quit within one day. Guess what? The replacement looked identical to the asian model I have and it quit within one day. I returned it but I suspected it was the same asian ETA model. I've bought a few from Silix lately and had no issues. Maybe it's just luck. QC issues?...drop shipping??? Who knows. I'm sticking with Silix for awhile. Edited August 14, 2007 by predfan2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I know they are 2 different people. At least I think so. They are still both my favorite dealers. They have given me remarkable service and I know they work incredibly hard. I am almost hoping they are working together so I can get better deals the more they merge, the worse there deals get - prices go up up up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdavis Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 My experience with Andrew closely mirrors Predfan's. After experiencing the seemingly schizoid personalities of "Andrew" after a series of product difficulties, I also have become a Silix Prime customer. It is apparent that Andrew uses many people to handle his email messages 24-7. Otherwise, he could never be able to respond to inquiries and orders with the promptness that he does. I have found that Joshua is the more consistent of the two and I actually get the impression that I am dealing with the same individual. Therefore, I do not think that they are the same individual but that they do work closely together to control the product offerings and increase their market share. It is obvious that there are price controls in effect. Whether you choose to call it a "cartel" or not doesn't really matter. The replica market is serious business and the object is to make as much money as possible which is the reason people go into business in the first place. It is wrong to resent the taking of a reasonable and honest profit. It is right and justified to resent excessive profit taking or gouging your customers. On the other hand, we as consumers have only two real choices, buy the product or reject it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgi Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I definitely agree with those of you saying there are more than one person answering e-mails. On my time, if you e-mail Joshua at around 9:30 at night, you can practically have an instant message chatroom with "him", although continuity is lacking in terms of responses. Once I was speaking with him about my YM, e-mailed him a few hours later, and got a reply to the effect of "what YM.. you never told me about it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRiddle Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 upon what meat hath they fed that they have grown so big? the truth? ...Accessability, they have a website which takes CC#'s, to the casual buyer.. that > any WU, paypal, etc etc.. my preferred dealer is neither.. although my first purchase (Swiss ETA UPO) was from Andrew and that was because of what I said.. accessability.. to the casual buyer/mass market buyer.. ease of use > everyone else that's why they get a lot of 'business' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 This just goes to show that conspiracy theories come in waves. There was quite a bit of talk years ago about River, Watchloverdavid, Paul and many others being the same person. I think not. Andrew and Josh have a lot of similiarities and differences at the same time. They use the same credit card processor and probably the same server but I do notice that perfect clones will introduce many more new models than trusty. I don't think they will merge. Wouldn't be a good business move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 It is no secret that this is true ... because of certain dealers commitments to the makers they are able to create change for the better in the Rep industry .. Joshua and Andrew are two such dealers .. ie. the attempt at better fonts and cyclops... HAH, what a bunch of [censored]! their aim is to control pricing, thats their only aim. not to make replicas "better". they have more interest in selling version 1, 2, ,3 ,4, 5, 6 of the same watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 If i had a good web master for example and a friend did not ... as are somethings in the business i am contracted for ... we would help each other out.. i am assuming that if i had 100 products and needed help moving some of it i would sub contract a friend to help me... i am not saying this is what is happening but it could be one possible senario.. Yes you are, you said in the preceding paragraphs: It is no secret that this is true ... because of certain dealers commitments to the makers they are able to create change for the better in the Rep industry .. Joshua and Andrew are two such dealers .. ie. the attempt at better fonts and cyclops... I am sharing this so that there are no conspiracy theories ... they both have provided exellent customer service after the purchase ... so please don't interpret this as me trying to promote one dealer over the others..it is better for customs that i deal with Joshua and Andrew The simple and undeniable facts of the matter, are that Andrew and Joshua have been proven to be liars and manipulators on numerous occasions, and there is evidence of that right here on this forum. The fact is that they cannot be 100% trusted 100% of the time, and have been caught selling 'less that perfectly described' merchandise on more than one occasion (read Predfan's comments on Pg 1...) They are nothing but leeches on the community of this forum, and profit by 'shooting fish in the barrel'. The last thing n00bs need to read, is good intentioned people defending them, when the facts available are indefensible... Just my .2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 HAH, what a bunch of [censored]! their aim is to control pricing, thats their only aim. not to make replicas "better". they have more interest in selling version 1, 2, ,3 ,4, 5, 6 of the same watch Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Lancelot Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Jawo, The pretty blond in your avatar keeps saying "Do you want to fight me?" What exactly is her problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfgarcia0283 Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Yes you are, you said in the preceding paragraphs: The simple and undeniable facts of the matter, are that Andrew and Joshua have been proven to be liars and manipulators on numerous occasions, and there is evidence of that right here on this forum. The fact is that they cannot be 100% trusted 100% of the time, and have been caught selling 'less that perfectly described' merchandise on more than one occasion (read Predfan's comments on Pg 1...) They are nothing but leeches on the community of this forum, and profit by 'shooting fish in the barrel'. The last thing n00bs need to read, is good intentioned people defending them, when the facts available are indefensible... Just my .2c So where can noob find the best yacthmaster rolesium rep avaliable, if not from joshua and andrew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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