Why Joshua (perfect clones) and Andrew (trusty time) are bad for rep collectors

[Victoria]

Hi all, nice to meet you......just dropped in from another board and discovered a treasure trove of info, and some pretty hot discussion.

Hey Graman. Scoobs said it, but I'll repeat it, Welcome.

You've debuted on a contentious, but not unfriendly thread, so thanks for weighing in with your points!

(Oh, actually, it was unfriendly to me. But since I constitute a small part of RWG, and the insults I believe were made invisible so as to stay on-topic -- thanks -- overall, I wouldn't call it unfriendly)

[Guest Carl]

Number One: Choose your dealer.

Number Two: Choose your watch.

There is enough uncensored information on this board to successfully do this. It is not up to the admins to police some sort of "policy" here. They have done a good job of allowing a free discussion here and that's what counts. All of those who have points to make have been allowed to do so, as far as I can tell.

Anyone who has an issue with a dealer which has been not been addressed by the dealer in good faith and in good time, should be ENCOURAGED to bring it up here for discussion.

Carl out.

[Graman]

Hi Graman, welcome to the forum

With regards your comment about customer satisfaction, a sense of security in their business, and doing the right thing, I would as if you read every page of these threads, as there are examples where people have not been taken care of, have been refused refunds, have received a watch 'in a condition' other than it was advertized (for whatever reason that may be) and comments from former customers who, while happy with the services they personally received, could not condone the business practices which have been highlighted in the two threads shown in my signature. I only ask as the evidence shown is clear and specific, and I find it hard to understand people thinking that they are such great dealers, all the time that evidence is clear.

Once again, welcome to the jungle. (we've got fun and games... )

Hi TeeJay, and thanks for the welcome.

I'm not adverse to a contentious issue....gets the blood running and reminds us we're human!

The comments are allbeit interesting - this is a side I have not experienced...I've been watching, buying from and enjoying watches from Joshua for a good 12 months or more...)probably more..forums are a bit of a time warp..

I must admit however, I haven't seen evidence yet to contradict my convictions.

If this has happened to you, I feel for you...it's a shame to have your trust betrayed, but I shall remain in my position until I see evidence to the contrary.

Again, thanks for the welcome....I've been hanging out at RWG2 (I think?) for a long time - enjoy the crowd, but glad to meet more like-minded (insert obsessed) people.

Cheers,

G

[Graman]

Hey Graman. Scoobs said it, but I'll repeat it, Welcome.

You've debuted on a contentious, but not unfriendly thread, so thanks for weighing in with your points!

(Oh, actually, it was unfriendly to me. But since I constitute a small part of RWG, and the insults I believe were made invisible so as to stay on-topic -- thanks -- overall, I wouldn't call it unfriendly)

Hi Vbarrett, Thanks for the welcome!

Looks like an interesting place to hang out!

Cheers...

G

[TeeJay]

Hi TeeJay, and thanks for the welcome.

I'm not adverse to a contentious issue....gets the blood running and reminds us we're human!

The comments are allbeit interesting - this is a side I have not experienced...I've been watching, buying from and enjoying watches from Joshua for a good 12 months or more...)probably more..forums are a bit of a time warp..

I must admit however, I haven't seen evidence yet to contradict my convictions.

If this has happened to you, I feel for you...it's a shame to have your trust betrayed, but I shall remain in my position until I see evidence to the contrary.

Again, thanks for the welcome....I've been hanging out at RWG2 (I think?) for a long time - enjoy the crowd, but glad to meet more like-minded (insert obsessed) people.

Cheers,

G

Hi Graman,

No problem at all. Always good to have new people and new experiences to mix things up a bit.

With regard the comments, have you read the comments in both 20+ page threads? Those are pretty clear about the instances of breaches of trust which have occured, as are the ones by Predfan in this particular thread. Indeed, as I've pointed out, the only instance in which my trust has been betrayed by Joshua, was when he told me something, and expected me to believe him. As other emails in Thread 2 have shown, he is not above telling lies to people he thinks are 'too new' to know any better, and will go along with them (see Sony's reposting of a manipulative email Joshua sent him) That's not to say your position is not valid, of course, but there is some pretty compelling evidence of 'less than honorable behaviour'.

Again, no problem at all

[Graman]

Thanks mate...I'll have a read.

[TeeJay]

Thanks mate...I'll have a read.

No Worries, I know it's a lot to slog through, but it's enlightening...

[predfan2001]

Oh by the way, some of you may have seen my post in the Rolex section where I changed the dial in my "Ultimate" Submariner from Trustytime. This watch retails for $488.00 because it is waterproofed and such. None of the seals had ever had any form of lube on them. Makes you wonder about all of that waterproofing

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=46456

[Richard Tracy]

Just a quick comment on the statement that doing business with a certain dealer or not,

has anything to do in this case, with reaching an informed opinion about them.

That is after all what a board is for,.. and this board especially...

This thread alone is ripe with all the sound information one would need to discover

what is what and who is who, for the most part, as I don't feel Angus & King belong

grouped with the likes of Josh... and there are other dealers with great gaps in

their game who are getting a free ride on the expressway to moolah-ville.

As to the benefit of such threads,...Some of us have realized long ago that many

tend to value their personal perks from brown nosing, false friendships, or crusty old views,

over reality, and more important, what is best for the board as a whole..

Yet if one person is helped,,.. then by all means.. let it be posted again, & again....!

[Highflyingclive]

... all members who bought the watch they had misrepresented was offered to return the watch for a refund or a discount. (Why is this fact left out of these discussions?) ...

I believe that I saw a post stating that the leaking "waterproofed" watch issue was also resolved, months ago.

So why is Teejay continuing his crusade... whilst ignoring these pertinent facts?

Or as he would say, "FACTS"

You have to question his motivation for wanting, or appearing to want, to do as much damage to Joshua's business as he possibly can.

The only question in my mind is, "Which dealer would benefit most from Teejay's crusade?".

I have my suspicions... but time will tell.

[slay]

I believe that I saw a post stating that the leaking "waterproofed" watch issue was also resolved, months ago.

It was never resolved, because they are charging for a service that they are clearly NOT doing (see The Zigmeisters comments).

You have to question his motivation for wanting, or appearing to want, to do as much damage to Joshua's business as he possibly can.

The only question in my mind is, "Which dealer would benefit most from Teejay's crusade?".

I have my suspicions... but time will tell.

What we have to question is YOUR loyal bumkissing to joshua. Arnt you ALWAYS defending him like he's your only child? Do we know that you dont benefit from that? Maybe you got a free watch in the mail?! If you come up with accusations like the above, be prepared for them to fall back on YOU.

There's definitely only one dealer benefiting from you behaviour, and thats Joshua.

[Pugwash]

You have to question his motivation for wanting, or appearing to want, to do as much damage to Joshua's business as he possibly can.

The only question in my mind is, "Which dealer would benefit most from Teejay's crusade?".

Yeah, but I got the same [censored] when I posted my LWL thread. Some people assumed I was doing it on TTK's behalf or similar. I will tell you straight off, you don't need to be a shill to care. I don't know TeeJay's motivation, but mine was pure unbridled frustration.

People like to assume there's a reason for everything, but it's usually a lot simpler than grand conspiracies.

[hambone]

The whole bottom line here with all this ridiculous BS, and make no mistake this is what this thread is , ridiculous BS, is that two guys are on a campaign to destroy "(very unsuccessfully) a couple of watch merchants, whom they have never, and this is key NEVER purchased one solitary watch, screw, or crown from. They have had ZERO personal experience with these merchants and they base their campaign on heresay and innuendo, which they seem to believe. The point here is why in the world would someone who is not personally affected by the actions of someone else do what they do? Is it an agenda? It is, to an extent, an agenda, it is an agenda of two clowns that have nothing better to do.

[robertk]

Ahhhh.......but there may be an agenda. Another dealer that is favored?

Why else this long, unendurable diatribe when there is so much more important stuff...................like WHO HAS THE BEST SUB?

[Richard Tracy]

... I think it's quite easy to discover which dealers are best, ... *best, relating to a combo of cost & service,..

You only need to price a few watches with several dealers, then read dealer reviews to get the scent of

the service levels...

I wonder, at the kinds of self induced blindness it would take to boil down the subjects of these threads

related to the factual transgressions that have been unveiled,.. as Total BS ?

Loyalty is a dish best served like sushi,.. Fresh! In other words...

Your personal past experience has nothing to do with how others may have gotten or will be be getting reamed,...

Nor has it any relation to the questions of what is in the best benefit to the community as a whole.

If the fish is stinking,.. don't eat it,.. or at least don't tell others to...

To systematically ignore certain facts and play down others which came to actual theivery,..

to me screams agenda louder than anything that the paranoid do dream up..

Though the agenda would probably be something as simple though ignorant as having a watch or two

in transit, hoping for a better deal, friendship over board, a grudge from a past dispute or a total misreading of

an individual.

[pabra]

...

agreed.

Was going to write something about Kunda, caffeine, cAMP, a disease, and positive illusions. But what a waste of time that would've been.

[hambone]

@ Pugwash, unfriendly? just out of curiosity, have you ever purchased anything from Trusty or Perfect Clones?

[Pugwash]

@ Pugwash, unfriendly? just out of curiosity, have you ever purchased anything from Trusty or Perfect Clones?

Unfriendly because you were questioning motives.

Out of curiosity? Yes, I have. However, that's not the point, to be honest. Did you read the Little White Lies thread? Was I wrong?

[TeeJay]

I believe that I saw a post stating that the leaking "waterproofed" watch issue was also resolved, months ago.

So why is Teejay continuing his crusade... whilst ignoring these pertinent facts?

Or as he would say, "FACTS"

You have to question his motivation for wanting, or appearing to want, to do as much damage to Joshua's business as he possibly can.

The only question in my mind is, "Which dealer would benefit most from Teejay's crusade?".

I have my suspicions... but time will tell.

Clive, why do you continue to refuse to accept the facts (or FACTS) which have been presented here against A&J? Are you calling Predfan a liar? Think very carefully before you answer that.

To answer your question, how should I know? I am not promoting any particular dealer on this forum. I have pointed out who I have done business with, and then left people to draw their own conclusions about them.

The whole bottom line here with all this ridiculous BS, and make no mistake this is what this thread is , ridiculous BS, is that two guys are on a campaign to destroy "(very unsuccessfully) a couple of watch merchants, whom they have never, and this is key NEVER purchased one solitary watch, screw, or crown from. They have had ZERO personal experience with these merchants and they base their campaign on heresay and innuendo, which they seem to believe. The point here is why in the world would someone who is not personally affected by the actions of someone else do what they do? Is it an agenda? It is, to an extent, an agenda, it is an agenda of two clowns that have nothing better to do.

And what precicely is BS? As directed to Clive, are you calling Predfan a liar? Are you calling Sony a liar for when they posted a manipulative email Joshua sent them? As I said to Clive, think very carefully before you answer that.

Oh, and to point out something you think is key. No, I have never purchassed anything from Joshua. The manipulative email he sent me was enough to make me wary of his business practices, and then Edge's thread, filled with information from Ziggy, who I suspect knows way more about watches than both of us together, then confirmed my suspicions. So, just so you can get your facts straight, no, I have never purchassed anything from either of them, but do not assume that that means that I have no personal experience with them. I have. I had a hunch, and it was proven right. Nice to see that you can debate a point without resorting to personal insults. Oh wait, you can't...

Ahhhh.......but there may be an agenda. Another dealer that is favored?

Please see my above comment to Clive. I have dealers I prefer to do business with, but, I appreciate that their watches might not be up to the 'standards of perfection' that some people seem obsessed with, so I would not recommend them to anyone who wants a flawless replica, and indeed, have only ever named my dealers when directly questioned about them (privately) or discussed their service in relation to other people's experience. That is not favoring or promoting, that is discussing.

... I think it's quite easy to discover which dealers are best, ... *best, relating to a combo of cost & service,..

You only need to price a few watches with several dealers, then read dealer reviews to get the scent of

the service levels...

I wonder, at the kinds of self induced blindness it would take to boil down the subjects of these threads

related to the factual transgressions that have been unveiled,.. as Total BS ?

Loyalty is a dish best served like sushi,.. Fresh! In other words...

Your personal past experience has nothing to do with how others may have gotten or will be be getting reamed,...

Nor has it any relation to the questions of what is in the best benefit to the community as a whole.

If the fish is stinking,.. don't eat it,.. or at least don't tell others to...

To systematically ignore certain facts and play down others which came to actual theivery,..

to me screams agenda louder than anything that the paranoid do dream up..

Though the agenda would probably be something as simple though ignorant as having a watch or two

in transit, hoping for a better deal, friendship over board, a grudge from a past dispute or a total misreading of

an individual.

Couldn't've said it better myself.

[slay]

The whole bottom line here with all this ridiculous BS, and make no mistake this is what this thread is , ridiculous BS, is that two guys are on a campaign to destroy "(very unsuccessfully) a couple of watch merchants, whom they have never, and this is key NEVER purchased one solitary watch, screw, or crown from. They have had ZERO personal experience with these merchants and they base their campaign on heresay and innuendo, which they seem to believe. The point here is why in the world would someone who is not personally affected by the actions of someone else do what they do? Is it an agenda? It is, to an extent, an agenda, it is an agenda of two clowns that have nothing better to do.

PAH, What the hell do YOU know Member No.: 3,251? How do you know from whom I have purchased? You dont know JACK SQUAT! I have more personal experience with them than you can ever imagine in your little mind!

And I would be very careful calling someone a clown with a more than ridicolous avatar as you have.

Also, if you were able to count further than ONE...TWO... you would be able to get that there is more than TWO.

And if it makes you feel BAD, I would like to inform you that I have gotten numerous PMs over my signature that thanked me for guiding them to the named threads and that they will now NOT spend their money at the cartel dealers. If it was only ONE sale less, I am MORE than happy!

[slay]

Out of curiosity? Yes, I have. However, that's not the point, to be honest. Did you read the Little White Lies thread? Was I wrong?

He's not interested in facts, pug. Only thing he does is calling other people clowns because they dared to make his favourite toy make look bad.

[lanikai]

I believe that I saw a post stating that the leaking "waterproofed" watch issue was also resolved, months ago.

So why is Teejay continuing his crusade... whilst ignoring these pertinent facts?

Or as he would say, "FACTS"

You have to question his motivation for wanting, or appearing to want, to do as much damage to Joshua's business as he possibly can.

The only question in my mind is, "Which dealer would benefit most from Teejay's crusade?".

I have my suspicions... but time will tell.

this is a point in a lot of peoples minds for sure...

Ask yourself this..

there are 4 dealers with direct ties to the makers ... they buy wholesale

other dealers have to travel through possibly more than one middle man .. and then sell for less to draft sales away from the primary dealers ..

I would imagine that most of the dealers without ties to the makers don't even know where or who the makers are... if you have any kind of "experiences in business and you had to go through a "middle man" you can appreciate the fact that you wish you could go directly to the source, if you could find out just who the "source" is ... therefore cutting your expenses..

so who's pulling the strings here ?? why do certain dealers get talked about as giving the most fair and honest deal at the "best' price ??

who's lying to who ?? as Admin. already pointed out J & A offered a refund or a exchange of some kind.. I am not quoting them verbatum.. .. so why is that not added to the mix ??

So yes, the question is out on the table... WHO will really benefit from this crusade and who is really manipulating who here ...

do I buy my watches from joshua... Yes... does he give me deals ... NO .. I want good quality and good service.. do I get this .. Yes..

I do post questions on the boards so people with experience .. good or bad can influence my decisions... that's what we are here for.

I purchased the IWC cousteau diver and Tag Aquaracer because of 2 member reviews and their pics..a direct result of this forum

i do not buy just because the write up is good on the dealers web site.. after all "all " dealers are after sales ... but Joshua has told me before to stay away from certain watches.... not because of the price but he knows my expectations..

In quoting others..."vote with your wallet" ..

there is nothing anyone can say or point out.. not even all the logical psycho babble in the world will affect this thread......because people will believe what and whom they want ... so the choice is YOURS to make

so indeed "who will benefit the most from this bashing"

As far as best sub.... for me action speak louder than words..

got a submariner from johua early 06 ... "waterproofed' .. i mainly free dive now .. not deep 35 to 50 ft. a little over 16 meters... my sub is still working fine ... although i don't think you can call any watch waterproff... water resistant is more the correct term i believe.

[jmt]

Finally, TT.

People understand about letting threads go, and letting people vent, but it was about time, IMHO, that one of you guys said this.

Both of you have a point. This IS getting old, and having an organized, systematic way of getting feedback on dealers (rather than just reading reviews etc) is a great idea. Sorry if that already exists and I don't know about it, but I love the idea because any one experience is just one experience... but the collective experience tells the story...

[TwoTone]

Both of you have a point. This IS getting old...

So you drug up the Thread because?

[Mr.RadioActive]

Man reading this thread would make one think some people forget they are selling "rep" watches. While I won't agree or disagree since I'm new to "this" forum, this is the rep aka fake watch world. How shocking it is that there maybe business practices that are maybe less then ethical going on. Swiss trained techs, waterproof, etc, hummm while these maybe what some would call the unethical part, isn't calling a $200 watch made in CN a Rolex unethical. If you don't care to buy something don't offer over any money to them. Give the dealer you like your money.