AA1 Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I like this... it is something I can participate in. It's been the opposite for me. First gens then reps, now both. I am more selective in my gens now though and only buy pam and rolex. I like both of them for their own reasons and never confuse the two. A rep is a rep.. although some of the rep pams I own feel real close to my gens. I do have a Franck Muller Conquistador from a few yrs ago that is really close imo to a gen and the mvm't is great or should I say the same as the gen. Too bad it never gets any wrist time. @Vbarret - 130 straps!! That's incredible! I have about 20 and wonder what the heck I'm doing. I still keep buying them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I do have a Franck Muller Conquistador from a few yrs ago that is really close imo to a gen and the mvm't is great or should I say the same as the gen. Too bad it never gets any wrist time. You know who loves Frank Mullers? The Risti folk. They seem to show them in their wrist-checks every week, and one chap posted he received in the post a brand-new (gen obviously ) Conquistador only two days ago. Showed the box and everything. Very pretty watch. I may just have to get me one of those, AA1. No offence to anyone there, but their wrist-checks are not as imaginative, or well-photographed as ours. Not even close. @Vbarret - 130 straps!! That's incredible! I have about 20 and wonder what the heck I'm doing. I still keep buying them though. When I said 130 straps I was being, as ever, conservative. Maybe more...I don't want to know. Just got a Delaurian yesterday night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWP Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 (edited) A gen would spoil me from enjoying all the mods. I know exactly what you are talking about. There are some very good modders on these forums, and I enjoy doing the work. Only two gens occupy my panerai collection, and now that I have begun modding an $800 dollar investment can get me close enough to the real thing. Currently I am working on a 219 mod for myself. Certainly a watch a would never shell out the money for, and when it is finished I am sure that i will be happy with the end result. Cheers TWP Edited September 28, 2007 by TWP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijor Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I guess there's really no need for me to explain my topic, since my question is already in the title, but to further elaborate... For you, did anyone ever purchase a rep only to find themselves purchasing the gen of said watch shortly thereafter? The opposite for me - I came to reps after having owned several gens - I am very satisfied with the reps I have and would never buy gens again unless I won big in the lottery. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgi Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Not over here! The very fact that a watch can be repped eliminates it from my list as being a possible gen purchase. In my opinion, the only worthwhile gens a person should purchase to wear are those which are not easily copied. The new Rolex Yacht-Master should be a perfect example of this, and so are the elaborate and complex designs of Breguet, Blancpain, Jaeger LeCoultre, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AA1 Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 You know who loves Frank Mullers? The Risti folk. They seem to show them in their wrist-checks every week, and one chap posted he received in the post a brand-new (gen obviously ) Conquistador only two days ago. Showed the box and everything. Very pretty watch. I may just have to get me one of those, AA1. It'd be a nice addition to your collection. I don't think they offer the mvm't that I have anymore though. Here's a pic of mine. I just blew that "well photographed" statement you make below though... No offence to anyone there, but their wrist-checks are not as imaginative, or well-photographed as ours. Not even close. When I said 130 straps I was being, as ever, conservative. Maybe more...I don't want to know. Just got a Delaurian yesterday night... I have one too. How do you like it? I really like his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cableguy Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Im finding that i LOVE my submariner. now that its away to The Zigmeister for service. i keep looking at my other 8 watches and have a hardtime picking out one. the Sub is the "go to" watch. I'd buy a gen of that if I ever buy a gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 It's two sides of the coin for me. I love the process of seeing a rep grow on me, ordering, waiting, waiting, the arrival, the instant hapiness, the disappointment, the look for mods, waiting again etc... It's sort of addictive, haha. Also affordable reps give a versatility to my collection that wouldn't be possible with gens - at least not to my budget . But I also own some mid level gens to wear when I'm meeting clients. Don't want them to think I can buy myself a PAM from their money.... Then again, having a few rep PAMs makes me want to have the real thing some day.... Just because I love the brand that much . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I have one too. How do you like it? I really like his work. It's on its way to me, so I'll let you know later. Looks interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I have no problems with paying a comparative king's ransom for a gen watch I could get on the cheap, because I honestly believe that intellectual property is not to be dismissed as mere capitalist excess. There is nothing wrong with charging a high price if you believe your R&D, your marque's high performance record and history demand said price. Not to disagree with you personally, but that is the company's attitude towards sales which I disagree with. They might think that their product is worth X, but if it's really only worth Y, then that's what they should charge. The example I use which best sums this up, is the clasp of a Rolex. Thin, stamped metal with sharp edges... The rep bracelets (if they have the correct links) feel identical to the gen bracelets... Personally, I don't think that on a watch of Rolex's reputation and cost, thin, stamped metal is acceptable as a deployant. Compared to clasps on Omegas, VCs, even PAMs, Rolex's clasps are definitely the most 'incongruous' to the comparitive quality of the overall watch, yet still people (ie the general public ) consider Rolex as The Watch to own... Sure, they're nice, but there are nicer watches... Anyhoo, that's getting away from my point... My point on pricing, is that if a company can outsource their product enough to bring their production costs down, why not adjust the retail cost accordingly? I know they charge what they charge because there will always be someone prepared to pay the price tag, and in marketing and retail, I know that's the overall 'point', but ethically and morally speaking, why charge more for a product than it genuinely costs to produce... (I know, R&D costs as well, but I think it's safe to say Rolex recouped those losses a long time ago ) I guess at the end of the day, I just object to consumerism and corporate greed setting prices for products. Another example of my feeling... Personally, I find Bic Biros the best 'all round' pen. They're comfortable and light, cheap to replace, and, from an artist's point of view, give such a variety of quality of line, that they are incredibly versatile. Now, if I could buy a generic biro which provided a comparable performance to the Bic, at a lower cost, I'd buy the generic over the 'brandname'... Hope that all makes sense Somewhere I read that Aldo Gucci would go up to American women in NYC, and question them about their bags. If he found a fake, he would chastise them very strongly, but in that gallant Italian way -- "Nonono", shaking his finger. Hee hee Personally, I'd be flattered that people liked my product enough to buy a replica. Sure, the money for it wouldn't be going in my pocket, but it would at least mean that the buyer liked it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewightstuff Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 (edited) for me yes, reps unleashed the monster the rep world opened my eyes to watches and fueled an interest way above what i could ever have imagined. i went from having not even worn a watch for atleast 10 years to having a parts box littered with bits and pieces as i picked up reps, learned a whole load i didnt even think anyone thought about prior, i learned how to take apart and rebuild watches, learned about miniscule details and tells and feverishly tried to get them as accurate as possible. i found myself drawn into vintage watches rather than moderns after the first few but no matter how much i worked on them, how good they got for me they just couldnt scratch my itch. id got to the stage where i was discarding almost the entire rep, replacing with gen parts and sinking alot of $ into a watch that would never be more than a wannabe. perhaps its my personality but rather than pride im my work i just found myself noticing all the little things everytime i wore each. i finally just bought the bullet and picked up a couple of gens instead since the price was accesible at the time. i havent given up on reps altogether though, the price of entry for models im interested in is now often prohibitive sadly and so reps allow me to expand my hobby when this is the case, such as with my 6152 project. beyond that i find a genuine enthusiasm and depth of knowledge amongst many on the rep boards that sadly lacking from the gen world, now filled with many treating them like stocks Edited September 28, 2007 by thewightstuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 beyond that i find a genuine enthusiasm and depth of knowledge amongst many on the rep boards that sadly lacking from the gen world, now filled with many treating them like stocks I couldn't agree more. People on rep boards tend to have way more knowledge and actual appreciation for horology than gen collectors who know little to nothing about the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I actually find modding goes hand in hand with buying gens. If you are willing to spend the money on a gen you are certainly willing to spend the time investing in mods on reps. In fact, for me most of the the fun in reps is either modding or turning them into frankenwatchs. And on straps and PAM's the best part of high quality straps is that they are interchangeable on gens and reps. They dress up both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greystash Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Though the path is a little convoluted, I would have to say it did in my case. I have admired Subs for years but over the last 9 months I have gone from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 for me yes, reps unleashed the monster the rep world opened my eyes to watches and fueled an interest way above what i could ever have imagined. i went from having not even worn a watch for atleast 10 years to having a parts box littered with bits and pieces as i picked up reps, learned a whole load i didnt even think anyone thought about prior, i learned how to take apart and rebuild watches, learned about miniscule details and tells and feverishly tried to get them as accurate as possible. i found myself drawn into vintage watches rather than moderns after the first few but no matter how much i worked on them, how good they got for me they just couldnt scratch my itch. id got to the stage where i was discarding almost the entire rep, replacing with gen parts and sinking alot of $ into a watch that would never be more than a wannabe. perhaps its my personality but rather than pride im my work i just found myself noticing all the little things everytime i wore each. i finally just bought the bullet and picked up a couple of gens instead since the price was accesible at the time. i havent given up on reps altogether though, the price of entry for models im interested in is now often prohibitive sadly and so reps allow me to expand my hobby when this is the case, such as with my 6152 project. beyond that i find a genuine enthusiasm and depth of knowledge amongst many on the rep boards that sadly lacking from the gen world, now filled with many treating them like stocks For mine, This would be a POM...if we had one going! A few years down the track, I personally don't collect reps, but remain active around the boards for two reasons. Firstly, in collecting gens, I tend to buy from ebay. Not exclusively... but a fair proportion. By "keeping my hand in" at the different boards, I very rarely look at an item on ebay, and don't know that ( the picture) is genuine or rep. (Bait and switch is a different matter) But up till now, I have NEVER been scammed on an ebay watch purchase. Sure, some have arrived not as I would like, but in the main, this is my fault for not asking enough questions. Secondly, and far more important to me, is the wonderful depth of knowledge available here, and the even better contributors, who will freely give whatever advice is needed. I also post on a number of gen forums, and NEVER see the level of support, and KNOWLEDGE, which is available here. So, for better or worse, you will probably see me here for some time yet Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 I'm nearing 130 straps now. are you tanfoglio's gf?...just with a love towards straps?...I still cannot believe that someone has that number of straps..there are two options...that each one cost 1$ or that you robbed some of the strap dealers... I think that neither one strap dealer has on stock that number... congrats miss V...I knew that the first appearance of a serious women collector will bring to this...2-3 months of collecting and 16+ PAMs and who knows how many other watches....130 + straps... nobody can compete (not that we are competing - just my lack in english language - miss the right word) with a women ( impulsive buyer) in shopping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwopo Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Reps have absolutely led me to gens....but only for certain models. My first sub rep (which I wear daily) looks good and has held up well. I was able to get a good deal on a gen (on this board, no less) so I picked it up. It's nice to have and I wear it those times when only a gen will do. For me, the watch I always wanted was a TT sub. For more than a year I searched, posted on boards, emailed collectors, and could never get one person to reccomend a good source (yes...even some people who sell them). So...to Ebay I went. Looked for a few more months to get a feel of whats out there and average prices. Finally found a fair price on a TT black sub which became gen #2. That only made things worse. I couldn't seem to stop looking at TT blues then. Sure enough.....picked up one about a month later. These gens, along with a few Tags, are the only gens I really "need" at this point. They're nice to have for once in a while wearing....and I'll just give them to my son one day. I still get reps if there is something that catches my eye. I just have to rotate them often so I don't have to look too much at misaligned date wheels.... My recent Aquaracer is fairly nice with this one glaring exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbell6 Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Started with a gen Rolex sub in '94. Outside of the month or two that it was gone for a routine service it pretty much never left my wrist (shower, sleep, ocean, pools). In fact, you could probably count the number of days on your hands that I didn't wear it from '94 to '07 (except for the servicing). Earlier this year I decided to pick up another watch. I liked the looks of the 5513's but didn't really want to spend that much so I decided to buy Tudor Rose sub. I had intended to buy it on ebay and stumbled across this site while I was looking. I joined as a non-paying member to see if I good gather enough information to keep from buying a copy. I finally took the plunge and purchased the Tudor Rose sub on ebay ($1600). Then realized that something wasn't quite right about the watch (with help from individuals on this board and timezone). Luckily, I was able to get out of the sale. However, knowing that the watch was fake, if the guy had offered to sell it to me for $800, I would have bought it. At that point I realized it wasn't about wether the watch was a gen or a rep, but rather if I liked the looks and quality for the price. Since that time I have bought several MBWs, a Breitling Navitimer, and a couple of PAM reps. During this same period I have also purchased a Breitiling Navitimer Montbrillant, and a couple of RXWs (MM10 and Plasmir Milgraph). I am now trying to decide wether to upgrade/mod the Breitling Navitimer and/or the PAM 112 or to actually purchase one of these as a gen (my wife has offered to get me either one for my birthday). Therefore, in some sense, I'm like Anton in that I use the reps as a demo for a gen. However, I really appreciate the quality of some of the high end reps and am completely satisfied with them (ie MBW great white). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Its a little easier to live with a handful (wristful?) of reps with a gen in the stable, for me anyways. Did owning reps lead me to a nice gen, yes. Did it lead me to replace the rep with a gen? Hardly. My reps are just as nice, why bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millemiglia Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 There are super reps but sadly super gens too, the first are nice enough to satisfy (and they will get better and better as long as 5th or 6th generations will be coming out ) but the super gens I want are monstrously expensive (way above 20K) and are not repped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 There are super reps but sadly super gens too, the first are nice enough to satisfy (and they will get better and better as long as 5th or 6th generations will be coming out ) but the super gens I want are monstrously expensive (way above 20K) and are not repped... I know the feeling... I know it's unlikely to ever be done, but I would love to see a rep of the HD3 Capture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Good thread. I could probably afford a few nice gens, but I'm cheap. Reps are more fascinating... and I guess I have bit of a "criminal mind". I love breaking the rules (kinda). I used to own lots of gens, and was participating the gen watch forums... but nothing ever came even close of the friendships and excitement that reps (and this community) have offered. And all this talk about reps being low quality... it's all bs. They don't have qc, but at least the better ETA-based reps are just as good as any $500 - $800 automatics. Just make sure the screws have been tightened properly and you're ok. And who doesn't love the idea of getting 10 great reps for the price of one gen? What if I owned one genuine $10K AP for example? I could post pics of it from different angles every day with the other pretentious wankers at "The Purists". Where's the fun in that? I'd rather be here with my "partners in crime"... getting great new watches all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 are you tanfoglio's gf?... I don't even think Tanfo knows I exist! just with a love towards straps?...I still cannot believe that someone has that number of straps..there are two options...that each one cost 1$ or that you robbed some of the strap dealers... Half of the straps, well maybe not quite half, but a lot were used. In great condition, but used. And I am TOUGH bargainer. I think that neither one strap dealer has on stock that number... Heh. Maybe. congrats miss V...I knew that the first appearance of a serious women collector will bring to this...2-3 months of collecting and 16+ PAMs and who knows how many other watches....130 + straps... nobody can compete (not that we are competing - just my lack in english language - miss the right word) with a women ( impulsive buyer) in shopping! I think V has a lot more, and more importantly, better quality straps than I do! He's a true connoisseur. I'm, right now, just an enthusiast. But thanks for the kind words (I think!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its_urabus Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 the only gen im interested in buying is a avenger seawolf, and only becasue i cant find the near perfect rep to buy, and im in love with it. im also getting a great deal on the gen so i dont feel so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 I have a few "middle range" gen like Baume et Mercier. I don't find them that more fascinating than reps. I'm still dreaming of a gen Sea Dweller 1665 Great White of course. But budget wise, I find myself having so many watches now, that I will have to wait to get my dream gen. The point of this thread now: no, it will not lead me to buy more gens; our reps are already great out of the box. But what is real fun in my opinion it's the modding part of this hobby. Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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