RWG Technical Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Time to open our eyes to what is being done to some of our watches. Members of RWG need to start asking some questions before they send out their watch for mods and upgrades. I see more and more watches that have been worked on by hacks, people who have no clue as to what they are doing. Sure these modders can relume a sandwich or a normal dial. Reluming a sandwich dial is quite simple, a normal dial takes a lot more skill and practice (I guess this justifies the outrageous prices asked). The lume application is not the problem, although you have to ask yourself how someone who has been luming for all of a few weeks or months, prices themselves at a rate higher than professional shops like Everest Watchworks...interesting to say the least. The problems I see constantly is the lack of basic watchsmithing skills and knowledge. I have seen this before, RBJ being a fine example of someone who never bothered to educate himself, and caused more damage to watches from mishandling and mis-assembling, and lack of cleanliness (some damage was visible to the owner, most only visible with the caseback off). Owners who's watches failed after a RBJ shop visit, simply attributed the failure on the fact that they had a rep, and never made the association with the poor workmanship. RBJ did try and portray himself as a watchmaker by posting a movement servicing that his "friend" did up for the forum. Although he did indicate that this was his "friend's" workmanship and that his friend was a watchmaker, he never corrected member comments who though RBJ was the one doing the movement teardown and assembly. All part of the scheme to fool the masses, it worked, and continues to work today. The basic problem is that in order to lume a dial, or do any other work that requires disassembling a watch, you require basic watchmaking knowledge and skills. The knowledge I am referring to is the standards of workmanship, cleanliness, movement handling, what to do and what not to do, what to be cautious of and not, how to take a movement out of the case, hand removal and installation, tool use, etc, etc. What is happening is that these folks don't have (and probably don't want to spend the time learning) these basic skills. A finger in the wrong location while handing a movement can un-do the servicing and oiling, not to mention the acid on your fingers that burns into the movement over time. If you don't think that you need skills and knowledge to take a watch apart and re-assemble it for a simple job like lume, without causing some serious damage, then that fact alone tells me that you yourself are not knowledgeable in watchmaking. So please, if your going to send your watch out for mods, ask some questions, and ask for references. Here is an example of what I see all the time. And for those who think that I am trying to "out" the competition, as in the past - your totally wrong. As it stands, my days of working on these watches are numbered. See my signature... Have a look at the Set Lever screw, used to release the stem, if the modder can cause so much damage to something as simple as a screw, think of what they do to the rest of the watch. BOTH CG attachment screws were stripped. New crown installed, but too far from the case, it should be flush. As a result, the CG lever was cut down to a stub. This makes installation of the crown where it should be impossible, the CG lever is now too short. CG lever upgrade?? the old silicone in the hole trick, gone bad. Isn't this lovely, nice bend in the CG cutout from the poor workmanship of the forcing the pin in place. Here's the reason for the bend in the CG... Now what about that crown installation. Common watchmaking tells up to just keep adding "o" rings until the space between the case and crown is filled up...unbelievable... What else can you say after seeing this workmanship, and all I did was take the caseback and CG and crown out...wonder what else is there for me to see... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRasta Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 It will be a VERY sad day the day you walk away. Family however does come first, all the time and every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 ... and people ask me why I don't get into modding for cash. The Zigmeister is the master of movements. I think it all comes down to knowing your limits. What trouble can you get yourself out of? Sure, I can remove hands, dials, keyless works etc., but if I make a mistake, no matter what it is, if it's outside my expertise, I've caused more damage than the cost of the work I've just charged. Little guys like me can help you out with the simple things, but we all know we're in way over our heads with the insides of movements. This is why we as a hobby should be grateful The Zigmeister is willing to share his vast knowledge and experience with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 At the end of the day guys only Ziggy has been doing this since he was a kid, if it's not going to him take it to a watchsmith. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 The Zigmeister, I hope this excellent post doesn't fall on deaf ears. It is shameful that people with little or no watchmaking skills advertise that they are proficient at performing intricate work such as this. Furthermore, they have the balls to charge as though they were professionals. Enjoy your well deserved time off and hope all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Excellent post my friend!! The Zigmeister is a true professional and the work he has done for me is first class all the way. As he says, its soooo important to know your modder and know the work hes done and search and search some more before sending your watch to someone you dont know. There are only a few people on this forum i would trust to handle my watches and RBJ from the other forum is not one of them. It isnt hard to find posts about the watches hes butchered most recently being Dieselpowers Rolex. Thankyou The Zigmeister and YES family always comes first Lonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yt74 Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 WOW, very eye opening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahchard Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 hahaha.... the stripped screws look at some of my attempts to resize rolex bracelets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket754 Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 It's a shame really. Some of the problem is that we have a serious shortage of highly skilled watchsmiths on this and other forums. The Zigmeister's pricing has typically been less expensive when you think about the quality of work you get. I have been tinkering with a couple watches lately and can see how easy it is get yourself in a big mess with a pile of watch parts that you can't put back together.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Ziggy is not only vastly more knowledable than retail watch smiths... but he does his horological work with a "passion" .. I was very fortunate that he took my 029 and saved it from the trash bin.. no watch smith would have touched it after what hapened to it..or had the ability to restore it.. this community is no doubt (fortunate is not the word... ) special with Ziggy as our in house expert.. we are really blessed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 RG - Not much to add about your numerous watchmaking skills that has not already been said, but I think your photographic skills have taken a giant leap forward recently. Those are some of the best darn tootin' macros I have seen from any source & on any subject. I guess you have something better locked onto your tripod than a digi-point-n-shoot......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 yeah now that u mention it, those are amazing photos!! excellent macros!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 There are to many clowns out there. It always makes me crazy when I see one member come back with a completely destroyed watch. How the hell is it possible that with the recent threads about some of these clowns people still come back with the same congratulations about them... I have not that much experience with Ziggy (EU/Canada...) but for sure one never saw anything bad said about his work. And yes there are some other trustable modders here, on RWG, that have ZERO negative feedbacks. It's a community duty to push people who ask for tips to contact the RIGHT persons. Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Thanks for the great post and advice. Your contributions to this board were one of the reasons I stick around and upgraded my membership. It's been said lots already...but family first, always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Ziggy, I must agree, those are awesome close ups! Are they just macros, or are you using a Trinocular Stereo 'scope? Cos, I am in the research stage for one, and would be interested to know what you use. Am looking at an arm mounted, with 30X, and 170mm focal length ( to be able to get the tools under) Recommendations or thoughts? Or anyone else who has knowledge of these units? Thanks Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 They are some fantastic pics taken by The Zigmeister, no doubt... It's unfortunate that there exists 'modders' that are irresponsible to this degree. At some point you've got to step back and acknowledge your own limitations, and source out the work to someone who is qualified to do this stuff. If you're tinkering around with an old sub, working on your lughole drilling skill for a future MBW project, that's one thing. It sort of reminds me of those ghetto "upstairs hollywood" medical schools, where you end up with people peforming plastic surgery without competance and butchering up their patients. This is some scary stuff for someone who literally *just* bought a modded 112 that cost an arm and a leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 autsch !! who was the modder ? RBJ ??? .. no - just kidding ... Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 autsch !! who was the modder ? RBJ ??? .. no - just kidding ... Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I have not gone any further into the watch, it was also lumed, so I am curious to see what I find when I take the movement out. This is only a heads up for members to ask questions and make sure that their watch isn't returned to them damaged following modding. Posting feedback is also important to keep the membership informed and protected. @ Stephane I was trying to figure out what happened to the post and why it's so wide...now I see the reason. It would be a big help if you made your signature no wider than X 800, any wider and it messes up trying to fit the post on the screen. As for the photo's, gone are the days in using a loupe on the end of my compact camera. My set up is very simple. I use an Olympus E-500, and the lens is a Macro 35mm (digital effective of 70mm), the camera settings are jpg at 1280X960. This allows me to shoot at the magnification I want to show on the forum, and each picture is cropped to fit a template of 800 X 700 since this size is perfect for posting on the forum. I shoot under my watchmaker bench lamp (colour corrected flourescent), and I always custom set the white balance before shooting to compensate for the colour problems of the flourescent light. The pictures you see are at 1/4-1/2 of the close up capability of the lens, it can focus at 14mm, or 1/2", simply amazing close ups. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Wow your right. I wondered why i was always having to scroll back and forth sideways to read the posts. Please change your sig to 800 wide becasue us people with normal non-widescreens (which i assume u must have) have to scroll sideways! I wondered what was always causing that! @ Stephane I was trying to figure out what happened to the post and why it's so wide...now I see the reason. It would be a big help if you made your signature no wider than X 800, any wider and it messes up trying to fit the post on the screen. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Wow your right. I wondered why i was always having to scroll back and forth sideways to read the posts. Please change your sig to 800 wide becasue us people with normal non-widescreens (which i assume u must have) have to scroll sideways! I wondered what was always causing that! Ooops sorry guys. I didn't mesure these pics as I was assuming that the were resized. Sorry my skils with PS are close to 0. I'll remover them. Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Thanks, that's better... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Thanks, that's better... RG Welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 This thread should be required reading for all new members. I don't think I've ever been as [censored] off with this hobby as I was a couple years ago when I sent 2 watches to be modded and the day they both returned, ruined, the "modder" posted pics of his new gen. 200 bucks for a lume? Thank God that guy's gone, but the question I would think we should ask ourselves is, "Do I really want to sacrifice my rep for someone else's gen?" No mas. This is not to say that I wouldn't heartily welcome a couple legitimately talented and honest modders to our community, and I know The Zigmeister feels the same way. Until that happens we all need to do our DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 This thread should be required reading for all new members. I don't think I've ever been as [censored] off with this hobby as I was a couple years ago when I sent 2 watches to be modded and the day they both returned, ruined, the "modder" posted pics of his new gen. 200 bucks for a lume? Thank God that guy's gone, but the question I would think we should ask ourselves is, "Do I really want to sacrifice my rep for someone else's gen?" No mas. I remember that post, nothing like throwing it in someone's face. This is not to say that I wouldn't heartily welcome a couple legitimately talented and honest modders to our community, and I know ziggy feels the same way. Until that happens we all need to do our DD. I would like nothing better than to see quality work being offered. Unfortunatly vaccum seems to be the only person I know who did his homework and learned the basics of the trade, before offering his services. I have to say, I have never heard of or saw anything bad come out of vaccum's shop...so it can be done, good work at a fair price - that is if greed is not the deciding factor. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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