Lederjacke Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Hello, the german custom catch my Hublot from Joshua, send via reg. airmail. The Custom Officer write( Bad translation): In the packet was a wristwatch brand Hublot, Geneve. Such clocks are not under Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Wow. I am absolutely disgusted to hear about such an attitude for someone to take. 45% is an inexcuseable insult. Okay, so it might have cost him money to ship the watch, but, it has been returned to him. There is no need for him to keep 55% of your money. To refuse to cancel the order and simply refund it is utterly disgracefull and thoroughly unprofessional. It sounds like the customs officer really did do their research, so all credit to them for actually doing their job properly, but as for Joshua's attitude, although I have not been impressed with him at all, I'd certainly never expect to see such a case of blatant robbery. Best of luck with a successful resolution, and, of course, welcome to the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w.genzo Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Hi, I got 1 watch from joshua seized and sent back to him, even if it was shipped by registered airmail. Customs wrote "not allowed" on it. I gave him another address and the watch arrived fast and safely. The address is of a friend of mine in the same city. Since that, every package i receive to my home address from extra EU (legal stuff, no reps) is opened and ispected from customs, maybe it's just a coincidence, maybe not.. Joshua asked it because probably your address is blacklisted now. And most of all, tell joshua not to use the word "gift" anymore, just put a value of around 30$ and keep using registered airmail. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 To play devil's advocate for a moment, it all depends on what was agreed upon before the sale with regard to the customs issue. I hope that Josh doesn't say he ships there on his site, unless there's also a disclaimer about the customs issue. I'll say this for myself- I'm not going to be shipping to Europe in the future. My luck has been very poor recently sending stuff there, and I can't afford to absorb that risk as someone who doesn't have that factored into his bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I received earlier from CN without problems, ask Josh to send it to me, I will send it to you m8, no problem see pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Have him ship the watch to a trustworthy member in a neighboring country, then have it forwarded to you. Germany is pretty vigilant in looking closely at incoming pakages from China. Routing it through the UK might be a safer idea. As for Josh not refunding your money, I don't blame him. He has obviously built a "seizure" cost into your cost. If he ships you a second watch he breaks even, if he refunds he loses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Have him ship the watch to a trustworthy member in a neighboring country, then have it forwarded to you. Germany is pretty vigilant in looking closely at incoming pakages from China. Routing it through the UK might be a safer idea. As for Josh not refunding your money, I don't blame him. He has obviously built a "seizure" cost into your cost. If he ships you a second watch he breaks even, if he refunds he loses. He would only lose the cost of shipping. The watch has been returned to him. If it was my transaction, I would accept a refund minus the cost of first shipping, but seriously, how can Joshua justify keeping 55% of the money? For something he has received back? It's daylight robbery, nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsmith11 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Man that stinks your first rep and it got seized? Like others have said, have it shipped to a member in a diff country then have them ship it to you, shouldn't be a problem there. As for keeping 55% of the money, for what???? He got his watch back so minus the shipping and give you a refund. Man if I got justify keeping 55% of clients money even though I hadn't lost anything I would be a rich man lol. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 He would only lose the cost of shipping. The watch has been returned to him. If it was my transaction, I would accept a refund minus the cost of first shipping, but seriously, how can Joshua justify keeping 55% of the money? For something he has received back? It's daylight robbery, nothing more, nothing less. You really think Josh or any other dealer is putting a correct return address on their packages? The watch is lost my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratedzeus Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Returns to china often do not show up. Chinese customs play a part of this game too... return packages are not just some package... Had this happen twice too (EMS)... Germany works ! lol ok I advise you to ask a trusted member from UK to receive another watch for you. Use registered airmail for germany (worked 6-7x now). I wish you all the best - and do not go for that 45% offer... you loose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lederjacke Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I received earlier from CN without problems, ask Josh to send it to me, I will send it to you m8, no problem see pm Thank you very much for this offer!!!! Did Josh knows your address? Regards lederjacke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 You really think Josh or any other dealer is putting a correct return address on their packages? The watch is lost my friend. Good point. My dealer in Malaysia does put his proper info on the package (to the U.S. anyway), but every parcel I ever received from China has my info printed out neatly and the return info is a garbled scrawl. Chinese companies that offer drop shipping usually specify that they will prevent the final customer from identifying them, to keep them from cutting out the middleman; the return address is usually gibberish. I third the idea of having it sent to a member in the UK and having them forward it to you, WITHOUT any Chinese markings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Lederjacke, I am SO sorry for your troubles. I don't want to seem a scold, at all, I feel for you, but it is not Joshua's fault to inform you of these troubles with delivery. That's why you are a member here in the forum. You have to inform yourself first. The fact is that EU countries have these problems. If you lived in North America, you would have much less, maybe none. This statement isn't for your benefit, since you know, but for some newbie reading this. A parallel story: Andrew sent me 2 watches (priced $269 each). We think the packing slip slipped out, because the Miami Beach PO was unable to deliver to the address. They sent it back the same hour they received it. It arrived at a third country, where Andrew has a forwarder (details not given to protect the modus operandi). But that country's Postal system lost the package. Andrew literally LOST $538 out of his own pocket, because he resent the watches to me. Is that fair either? No. I mean, these guys lose money too through no fault of his own. But his customer service guarantee to me has always been 100%. Anyway, as you can see, it varies from collector to collector. Once you get one who you trust, stick to him. Good luck next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corgi Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 If customs found it you're blacklisted now, and every single package sent to you will be investigated with extra vigilance. Be very weary of buying more counterfeit goods, especially from China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Thank you very much for this offer!!!! Did Josh knows your address? Regards lederjacke I.m in Holland, check your pm. Or you can order from a UKdealer in the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I think many countries in the west are beginning to look at shipments coming from Asia with increasing scrutiny. Whether they are searching for contraband or something more nefarious is unclear, but I have had 2 recent shipments opened & resealed with a note (from 'US Homeland & Border Security') stating that the packages were inspected 'for my protection'. Of course, we all know that is poppycock. In both cases, the contents were not contraband (gen Rolex bracelet & gen Rolex crystal), so they had no legal grounds upon which to seize the goods or hassle me further. But it is pretty clear to me that the bar is being raised by postal inspectors in the war on unlawfully imported goods, especially those coming from China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Andrew literally LOST $538 out of his own pocket, because he resent the watches to me. You paid $538 for two watches. So $538-(dealer costx2)=net gain/loss excluding shipping. If you assume a 40% markup, the loss is $106. If you assume a 60-80+% markup, like I do, there is still a net gain. ($108-$322) So don't shed too many tears for the poor dealer--no one is forcing them to conceal their return address, and who wouldn't eat $100 now and then to prevent bad publicity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 You paid $538 for two watches. So $538-(dealer costx2)=net gain/loss excluding shipping. I understand where you're coming from, but if he had those watches back, he could've made $269 on some other customer, hence my reasoning. Let's not forget that our forum is only a tiny amount of their business. How many times do they lose watches from others? Even if there is a huge markup, that's still money lost. Kudos to our collectors here who replace watches. I wouldn't like that one bit. @Verbal: Do you forgive me if I tell you your message is too explicit? "They" might be reading... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 You really think Josh or any other dealer is putting a correct return address on their packages? The watch is lost my friend. Okay, that is a fair enough point, but, in all honesty, that is a risk that dealers face with customs seizures. I'm sure either Andrew or Josh has previously issued straight replacement of goods which were seized, which, in theory, would put them down two watches, not just the one. As above, by all means only issue a refund for the amount minus the original shipping, but 55%... Sorry, that's just not justifiable. It's the risk of being a dealer, and not a fair cost to put back onto the customer in such a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Returns to china often do not show up. Chinese customs play a part of this game too... return packages are not just some package... Had this happen twice too (EMS)... Interesting. The three times I've sent watches back to China, they all arrived at their destinations. I admit, I did not use 'registered' shipping, and just sent them as a regular package, so the delivery was obviously not as quick as arrival, but, they did arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Interesting. The three times I've sent watches back to China, they all arrived at their destinations. I admit, I did not use 'registered' shipping, and just sent them as a regular package, so the delivery was obviously not as quick as arrival, but, they did arrive. When returning goods the dealer will give you a valid address, there is really no customs risk in receiving a counterfeit watch. But, when they are sending out, the will not give a valid address for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 When returning goods the dealer will give you a valid address, there is really no customs risk in receiving a counterfeit watch. But, when they are sending out, the will not give a valid address for obvious reasons. Indeed, that's fair enough, but even so, it still does not warrant keeping 55% of the cost. That is taking advantage of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Indeed, that's fair enough, but even so, it still does not warrant keeping 55% of the cost. That is taking advantage of the situation. Why wouldn't it? By my estimation 55% likely the amount that Josh has vested in this transaction. You can't pull out mid deal, whether its going well or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Why wouldn't it? By my estimation 55% likely the amount that Josh has vested in this transaction. You can't pull out mid deal, whether its going well or not. Well, that estimate makes the assumption that the watch was being sold at cost price, it does not take into account dealer markup. As Doc Savage pointed out to Victoria on pg 1: You paid $538 for two watches. So $538-(dealer costx2)=net gain/loss excluding shipping. If you assume a 40% markup, the loss is $106. If you assume a 60-80+% markup, like I do, there is still a net gain. ($108-$322) So don't shed too many tears for the poor dealer--no one is forcing them to conceal their return address, and who wouldn't eat $100 now and then to prevent bad publicity? So to give Josh the benefit of the doubt, rather than just saying "Keep the shipping charge", let's add a 're-stocking charge', as, there are some companies which do this (admitedly, their re-stocking charge is paying the employee who returns the item to the stock room, not actually ordering an entirely new item). We both know that that is going to be much less than what the customer actually paid. Hence, why I feel 55% is an unreasonable percentage to retain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Okay, that is a fair enough point, but, in all honesty, that is a risk that dealers face with customs seizures. I'm sure either Andrew or Josh has previously issued straight replacement of goods which were seized, which, in theory, would put them down two watches, not just the one. As above, by all means only issue a refund for the amount minus the original shipping, but 55%... Sorry, that's just not justifiable. It's the risk of being a dealer, and not a fair cost to put back onto the customer in such a way. I have always thought that replacing more easily in such cases was the explanation of their higher prices. Any other explanation why you would pay 20-30% more for any rep ?(their = TT & PC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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