Victoria's 183H Transformation

[flamemax]

@TWP

I am far from being a photographer and or a WIS for that matter, but there is one thing I am certain of.

When taking pictures of a watch with a Macro lens, and asking forum members to "scrutinize" the pictures, it would be in your best interest, to be certain that the pictures and the piece being photographed is perfect.

Having dust in the picture, if it is dust, and having some spotty areas where lume is missing ect... does not a modder make.

Just my 2 cents

[V]

I understand. I cannot comment because I didn't see either this thread on RWG (it had been "removed" by the time I got up) or those other threads.

I can only comment on what I know, and that's what I know. Please read my subsequent reply for a look at the greater picture, since we're so insistent on good eyesight.

Ok.. if you haven't seen that I understand why you believed him. There is nothing you can do now. He screwed up but I am quite sure that he will take care of you because he seems like a nice guy.

[gioarmani]

Horrible after shots; no offense--it just doesn't look professional, or presentable for that matter. Hope it's correctable. Is that glue or varnish on the dial? It can still be seen through the glass after it's been reassembled, especially the biggest stain near 6 o'clock. Just observationally speaking--not intending to put down either party.

[Victoria]

@TWP

I am far from being a photographer and or a WIS for that matter, but there is one thing I am certain of.

When taking pictures of a watch with a Macro lens, and asking forum members to "scrutinize" the pictures, it would be in your best interest, to be certain that the pictures and the piece being photographed is perfect.

Having dust in the picture, if it is dust, and having some spotty areas where lume is missing ect... does not a modder make.

Just my 2 cents

Ask yourself, not you personally Flamemax , but in general:

WHY would TWP post this particular thread of a watch which so clearly contains smudges, and the like?

As I said on RWI yesterday, if he were emailing photos to a newbie, maybe he could get away with it (if he were that type of person). But in a forum FULL of experts?

It was obviously a joke, because I doubt he is as self-deluded as that.

I just emailed him asking him to come to the thread. I said I am neutral, but I know he will do what he can to clear up this unneeded mess. Since he's a medical practitioner, his time must be compromised, but I'm sure he'll come around by night time.

@V: No, I got you. Agreed.

[V]

WHY would TWP post this particular thread of a watch which so clearly contains smudges, and the like?

As I said on RWI yesterday, if he were emailing photos to a newbie, maybe he could get away with it (if he were that type of person). But in a forum FULL of experts?

It was obviously a joke, because I doubt he is as self-deluded as that.

Ok.. and if it was a joke WHY delete the threads when people were starting to comment on the flaws? That shows that he screwed up and trying to cover up things. If it was a joke he could have left the thread and say it was a joke

Plus you haven't seen yesterday the situation on the Panerai area in order to judge better yourself.

He posted 6 watches of supposedly happy customers who said they were perfect!!!

4 were ok 2 had problems..

If you want to do a joke you post just this watch and you let it play

+ if we say that this was a joke.... then how Stupid is that?

You are a guy who has been criticized heavily for his lasts orders and mods.. you do a so called R-E-S-P-E-C-T campain and then you post the watch above as a joke and you delete the thread.

I do not want to make it personal but it would be the stupidest thing he could ever do

[Victoria]

Ok.. and if it was a joke WHY delete the threads when people were starting to comment on the flaws? That shows that he screwed up and trying to cover up things. If it was a joke he could have left the thread and say it was a joke

I'm not sure. If you know you are busy during the day, and cannot "husband" the thread properly with replies, would you let a thread stay there without you there to explain? Because all people will see are those photos. If you delete the photos, same thing will happen.

This is my only guess about what happened.

Please note that this thread remained on RWI. But RWI isn't RWG, where people are much more serious in their manner, with respect.

Plus you haven't seen yesterday the situation on the Panerai area in order to judge better yourself.

He posted 6 watches of supposedly happy customers who said they were perfect!!!

Yes, that is true. That's why I am not as outraged as others, and mind you, that's purportedly MY WATCH there. If there is anyone here that needs to be outraged, it is me.

And I'm not. I'm hopeful.

I do not want to make it personal but it would be the stupidest thing he could ever do

I told him that in no uncertain terms. I also teased him asking if he's a surgeon, because this is just the type of balls-to-the-walls attitude surgeons with Type-A personalities have.

Clinicians are far more mousey.

[RWG Technical]

WHY would TWP post this particular thread of a watch which so clearly contains smudges, and the like?

I don't buy the "joke" line, sorry.

The post that showed a completely assembled watch, with the saussage lume at the 4 o'clock position having a big gouge in it, was clearly not a joke.

To fix that problem would require complete disassembly of the watch, scraping off of the bad lume, and applying new lume.

Why would someone who is so "pressed" for time, want to re-do his work over again, all in the name of a joke?

Same for the mark at the "10" position, fixing this after the watch has been shown completely assembled, requires teardown, and splitting the sandwich dial...again a lot of work, all in the name of a "Joke".

Pressed for time, but has time to re-do a job, in the name of a joke, posts watches to show the quality of the workmanship, then deletes them when people note problems...I guess V and I are the only ones who have a hard time believing any of this.

No one has yet to explain how these disappearing posts got deleted, it's one thing to edit your own post, but when others have commented about the poor workmanship, and their comments are not visible to the members, who are we protecting?

RG

[Shundi]

:::Unfolds lawn chair and begins to munch on popcorn:::

Even if this was a joke, its not the best idea to hide a thread after members point out mistakes. I can see where TWP replied with "LOL's" to some comments but instead of seeming like a joke, his post and subsequent comments seem a bit caviler and inappropriate. It seems that TWP is caught between a rock and a hard place and I feel that full disclosure (whether or not this was a "joke") is necessary.

[jsmith11]

Vic,

I usually agree wholeheartedly with you but this time I think you may be wrong.

Why in God's name would he create a "joke" thread then delete it when everyone commented on awful that job looked?

My take is he had a few suds, grew a set posted what he thought was good work, sobered up realized how bad it was and deleted the thread lol.

Has to be the only explanation.....

[Victoria]

My take is he had a few suds, grew a set posted what he thought was good work, sobered up realized how bad it was and deleted the thread lol.

Has to be the only explanation.....

I'm not discounting that what you guys are saying is wrong, Jsmith.

But I am going by the email timeline. I got that BEFORE he posted this, not after.

Hampered I also am, by not having seen the "deleted" posts about his other mod work. It seems to me he was chagrined with the replies about his "real work", and thought this might turn into an avalanche, I'm in a hurry, let me delete them all.

If he just wanted to be sneaky about his job, he would've left the 4 posts which V assures me were okay mod jobs, and deleted/set as private just the bad ones.

But he deleted them ALL, no?

Again, I'm as in the dark as all you are, and all our explanations are conjecture or invective. I can just go with the quick private email. Sorry that I cannot offer more info.

I'll return to the thread after TWP posts.

[flamemax]

I was thinking of purchasing from TWP,

A while back I contacted TWP requesting information on a purchase.

The answers were delayed longer than was acceptable and I eventually opted out.

As of late i had been reconsidering dealing with him anew as he is located in the States and I am in Canada..

But all this hoopla is making me rethink if I want to do business with him or not

too bad...

[lanikai]

For those who are still wondering about the "deleted" post

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=68181

I just don't buy any and all of it period !!!!I don't buy .... that TWP even took the pics... I seriously doubt the work or "modding" for lack of a better term is even done by TWP.. it could be very well done in GZ for all I know..(and I am serious)

the only thing I am sure of is he does collect the funds for the reps he sells .. with all this going on .. you would think that TWP would be available for comment.. no ???

What is going on.. free mods for favourable reviews ..because that's what it bloody seems like is happening..

[Victoria]

What is going on.. free mods for favourable reviews ..because that's what it bloody seems like is happening..

What favourable review for free mods about TWP's work are you talking about?

[V]

But I am going by the email timeline. I got that BEFORE he posted this, not after.

If he just wanted to be sneaky about his job, he would've left the 4 posts which V assures me were okay mod jobs, and deleted/set as private just the bad ones.

But he deleted them ALL, no?

Yes because if he has left the photos of those 4 watches some more hours I am sure we would have found flaws in those 4 as well. We have the eyes of the hawk here in RWG.

Just kidding.. or not

[lanikai]

What favourable review for free mods about TWP's work are you talking about?

Intentional or unintentional Vic.. when people are comped a product it is human nature to back that product or it's supplier .. if members are being told they are not being charged for certain items ... but asked nicely to post how happy they are .. then that form of manipulation is wrong .. on the sellers end.. not on the buyers side ... I am not by any strectch of the imagination saying that deals have been struck .. but it is possible ... is that why we see all these post raving about TWP.. when his mod work..(whoever is doing it) is terrible ???

[Victoria]

Intentional or unintentional Vic.. when people are comped a product it is human nature to back that product or it's supplier .. if members are being told they are not being charged for certain items ... but asked nicely to post how happy they are .. then that form of manipulation is wrong .. on the sellers end.. not on the buyers side ... I am not by any strectch of the imagination saying that deals have been struck .. but it is possible ... is that why we see all these post raving about TWP.. when his mod work..(whoever is doing it) is terrible ???

Again, I ask Lanikai, calmly, politely, what favourable review for free mods about TWP's work are you talking about?

Because if you're talking specifically about me, there is none. There will be none. No deal, explicit or implicit has been "struck".

A ) I don't have the expertise to review rep watches.

B ) I'm not a fool nor fool-hardy.

The last point is crucial, because to review his watches (something I have never attempted on any forum) would be suicide for me and for him. We had a very long thread about sponsored reviews, and Admin made his point clear. Whatever else I am, I'm an intelligent lady.

The first point is fundamental.

How can I post a review about his work in the same vein as Seadweller4000 did about the Breitling Heritage, full of specs, and technical details? I cannot.

The most I could've attempted was a Pictorial Review, like I did twice about the A. Lange & S

[V]

As a person who is getting these mods for free, out of the goodness of his own generosity, I am in a difficult position. But I thank TWP for whatever extra work he did, and to all who replied, who answered forthrightly on my behalf.

What you mean by that if not that he did the mods for free?

[Victoria]

What you mean by that if not that he did the mods for free?

I'm not sure I follow.

I stated that he is doing these things for me as a gesture to me, for free (BTW, I paid for the watch back in August. Don't think the 190/183 themselves were free, just to clarify). And that I'm a difficult position overall, having to rag on his work, since I could see it was not up to snuff. But that I was grateful to you guys for getting my back, and to him for his overall generosity.

Was that clear enough, V?

Until that time, I hadn't opened my email with his explanation. If only I had...

[seanf]

I don't know what game TWP is playing here, but I don't like it at all. I understand Victoria's reluctance to come down too heavily on TWP (since he was doing this as a favor for her), but this issue goes beyond her and the mods to her watch. TWP posted these pictures--here and on RWI--presumably to advertise his (not inexpensive) modding services. As a result, this is something that impacts every person who has used--or is considering using--TWP for modding. And so this raises two issues.

First is the quality of the work. Which, I think we can all agree, is pretty poor. But the second, and more troubling issue, is why TWP felt the need to delete not just this post, but several others showing his modding skills. And notwithstanding his claim to Victoria that this was a joke--which is simply nonsensical--I suspect the only reason we're seeing this resurrected thread is that he couldn't delete a similar thread over at RWI (and none of the mods would even consider deleting it for him, had we been asked).

[V]

I'm not sure I follow.

Sorry I thought that with your reply to lanikai and you were saying that he hasn't done them for free. I misunderstood.

[DemonSlayer]

After reading all posts in this thread, one thing I don't yet understand is why would TWP show these photos while being confident he had done a good job? There must be an explanation behind it. Hopefully TWP can clear it up...

[KB]

But the second, and more troubling issue, is why TWP felt the need to delete not just this post, but several others showing his modding skills

@seanf as you obviously missed the link the fact is that TWP did not delete any of his posts the RWG mods did, and it was done simply because as a collector he is bound to follow our rulings and post all and anything pertaining to his sales within his own trade area.

This current thread was set visible again and moved to GD as it had a number of replies and so was deemed of public interest.

Ken

[seanf]

@seanf as you obviously missed the link the fact is that TWP did not delete any of his posts the RWG mods did, and it was done simply because as a collector he is bound to follow our rulings and post all and anything pertaining to his sales within his own trade area.

This current thread was set visible again and moved to GD as it had a number of replies and so was deemed of public interest.

Ken

Thanks for clarifying that, Ken. Is there any reason that his other posts haven't been moved to his trade area and set to visible yet? I never saw any of those posts, so I don't know what they were about, but I believe other people have said that they showed off some more TWP mods.

[ColeFizzle]

Hello all - I don't post here but I visit the forum nearly every day. In finally having something to contribute with, though, I feel complelled to briefly share my experience:

Prior to donce's post in the dealer review section (http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=67287) I contacted TWP about modifying a 111h. Though TWP has not contacted me with pictures of the work as it's being done, I told him in my most recent e-mail that I would provide a pictoral review of his work and my complete experience with him. I consider myself neutral here - I don't involve myself in board politics and have no interaction with any members, nor do I particularly care how TWP does his work (so long as I receive the watch which was promised prior to my payment.) I look forward to receiving the 111h and promise an unbiased and honest recount of my experience here in the name of providing useful information to others.

[KB]

@seanf to be honest I haven't read most of the other threads but I suggest that the team member who set them invisible saw them more as clutter than any other purpose and set this thread visible again because he saw substance in it.

Ken