Factory to Wholesaler. How.

[KB]

Fiji is a third world country, it is also the country which my wife was born and raised in.

I have been there on 10 occasions and I can tell you that outside of the tourist industry basically the whole country is sweatshop. My wife used to work 48hrs a week in an upstairs sweltering room with only roof fans seated behind the same sewing machine day after day after day, her take home pay would have been around $35AUD a week.

The difference with Fiji though is that the cost of living is not all that removed from the cost of Australian living.

Ken

[Victoria]

The difference with Fiji though is that the cost of living is not all that removed from the cost of Australian living.

That's awful, Ken!

When I lived in Brazil, one can make the argument that that was also the case -- it was prohibitively expensive to live in Rio de Janeiro's "Zona Sul" for anyone but a middle-class person. The poor had to take 3 busses to their suburban homes, often hours-long ride to earn a few Reais, working as maids, chauffeurs, and other types of labourers.

And they couldn't dream of shopping in the boutiques and supermarkets in Copa/Ipa/Leblon. However, things were much more affordable in their own areas.

Perhaps that's a more apposite explanation than the one I gave.

@Kenberg: I know this sounds sappy, but if I were a lady in that position, I'd love the guy who rescued me to the end of the world...

[KB]

Believe me Victoria when I said to my wife "Let me take you away from all this" she knew what I was talking about.

Ken

[rodwc]

"Is this rokay?"

"Rooks rokay to me"

"Loleks leady to ship!"

I would be offended by that "comment, " if I was Chinese !

Not very nice, coming from your mouth.

Wow, my first double post.

Don`t think you can count girly.

[Victoria]

Don`t think you can count girly.

You know, this reminds me of that time Rosie O'Donnell was being raked over the coals about her "ching chong" remark. The Imus incident and Dawg non-incident were in the future.

She, with amazing lack of honesty, claimed in all honesty that she had no idea that "ching chong" was a slur, gasp horror, not her!

I would've respected her a lot more if she had looked at the camera and said, ME SO SOLLY!

So that's my reply to you, Rodwc.

[JJFlash]

I would add that our own demand for improvement in our watches also drives up to cost considerably.

Remember the watches we got years ago?

Replicas that were reasonably good and reasonably cheap.

We then demanded better quality products and by god we got them.

But at a much higher price.

I have got to say I love the overall better quality products we now get.

Still criinge at some of the price tags.

[The Mentalist]

I would be offended by that "comment, " if I was Chinese !

Not very nice, coming from your mouth.

Don`t think you can count girly.

I'm chinese and that cracked me up. Then again, I have an accent like Hugh Grant so maybe I'm not the most suitable chinaman to judge.

[lanikai]

I'm chinese and that cracked me up. Then again, I have an accent like Hugh Grant so maybe I'm not the most suitable chinaman to judge.

you should get a load of Asians down south.. now that is strange... Ya'll

can't make sense of my cousin.. and he does not eat raw fish.. family disowned him

[jot9011]

Ummmm....Ok, here's my cynical view.. We're not buying mechandise from Walmart here...let's face it, it's highly likely that our prescious watches are being assembled by the hands of pre-pubescent children.

These are illegal sundries....What right do we have to question how they are made?

I think it's better not to know. You think the prices are high now, what do you think they would be like if organized laborers were doing the work?

If your moral conscience is troubled by this, then genuine watches are the way to go.

There's always trade off in life, a little guilt and doubt.... for packages from GZ.

[KB]

If reps are children's work - then all I can do is pull my hat. They have more attention to detail than many local watchmakers here.

Ah but no one said they make all the watch, they could responsible for stuff like say..........Submariners crown guards

But honestly the list is endless where they could (not saying they are) be involved.....stamping the metal disks for the dials, operating the machines to make pins/screws/bracelet links, making/assembling spring bars etc etc

I hope I'm wrong but like I said it can't be dismissed.

Ken

[fendushi]

I would be offended by that "comment, " if I was Chinese !

Not very nice, coming from your mouth.

Don`t think you can count girly.

It's rokay... we not offended....

[rodwc]

We all know that the watch wholesalers get their watches from the factories.

How is this achieved, there are literally thousands of sellers, of different brands and quality.

How many factories ? 5, 6 , ........12 ?

Could the factories have wholesale wharehouses set up ?

Do the dealers simply go to a factory shop? ( factory outlet ).

Could there be dozens of rep. representatives hawking the different models around?

Whichever way it is done, has to be on quite a big scale.

Any ideas ?

This topic is way , way off the original subject.

(See Above ).

[KB]

Well not really that far off topic as we are speculating on the process taken in making our reps and in the end thats all we have because the only ones who can accurately answer your questions are the dealers...and they aren't telling.

Ken

[rodwc]

Well not really that far off topic as we are speculating on the process taken in making our reps and in the end thats all we have because the only ones who can accurately answer your questions are the dealers...and they aren't telling.

Ken

Really, I am sure that the process in making the reps. is not in question or interest, as most of us can speculate.

I simply asked the "journey from factory to wholesale market"

It`s all we may have if we dont ask for more (information ) ideas from members.( there is the speculation ).

The dealers are certainly NOT going to answer any questions like this, This is a CLOSED shop. (especially to westerners )

So good luck to any fly by nighters wanting to open the source.

Mission Impossible.

[The Mentalist]

I commissioned a custom pocket watch in China for myself via my Chinese point man. The Shenzhen factory in question seemed very skilled in replicating details which rang a few alarm bells so I asked them if they did 'reps' on the side. Put it this way, it's not as closed a shop as it would appear to be.

[TeeJay]

We all know that the watch wholesalers get their watches from the factories.

How is this achieved, there are literally thousands of sellers, of different brands and quality.

How many factories ? 5, 6 , ........12 ?

Could the factories have wholesale wharehouses set up ?

Do the dealers simply go to a factory shop? ( factory outlet ).

Could there be dozens of rep. representatives hawking the different models around?

Whichever way it is done, has to be on quite a big scale.

Any ideas ?

This topic is way , way off the original subject.

(See Above ).

I think the process of 'factories' has already been described, as people building parts obtained from various places, in places of various conditions. Some might class them as 'sweatshops', others, might not. They are most likely not 'factories' as western business would define a factory (in either structure or working environment), and, asking the question again, is not going to yield a different answer...

The question was already answered, although clearly not with the answer you wanted.

As Samuel L. Jackson said to John Travolta in Pulp Fiction:

"If my answers frighten you, Vincent, you should cease to ask scary questions..."

[The Mentalist]

In my experience, that's how it works. They make legitimate watches during the day and on the side they crank out reps with the full consent of the factory bosses.

[gavidoc]

In all honesty, it isn't a "closed" avenue that is mission impossible. All it requires is knowing someone in China who is in the manufacturing business. Currently today, the number of people who are interested in this hobby who have the ability to work with any factory in China is small but for those of us who do, all it would take is a simple question:

"Do you know of any watch manufacturers?"

You might be surprised at the answer you got. Some would say they didn't, others would say they did, while others would say they would find out. One of the beauties of the American dollar (even in its weakened state) is that it still carries a lot of power in China and the manufacturers located there. Many companies over there who have American customers would be willing to find the answer to a simple question such as:

"Do you know of any watch manufacturers?"

Only for the sole reason of showing that the company they are working with are capable to finding the answer to a question no matter how trivial. The larger the customer you or your company is for that Chinese factory, the quicker the response. I asked one of our factory reps if she knew where the watch markets were in Guangzhou and she said she did and plans on taking me to them when I'm there. This idea that it is an unknown or unobtainable is not really the case even if the "collectors" try to make it appear that way. The problem is that not many people have the ability to get answers to the questions and the hope is that those who do know, will answer the question.

My experience with Chinese factories that work in assembled product might be different then the way the watch rep world works but this would be my take on it.

For Custom made replicas:

1. Joe wants to have some rep watches made and has capital to invest in the making of these watches.
   
2. Joe finds a factory in China that is capable of making them. More then likely the factory itself only makes cases but has their own vendors that they outsource for the other parts such as bracelets, straps, dials, movements, etc.
   
3. Joe works with the factory on exactly what he wants (might even utilize their own engineering capabilities) and the factory makes a few prototypes. Who pays for them is based upon the deal worked out between the factory and Joe.
   
4. Factory creates the number of cases that Joe wants (after a price is determined) and then they turn around and order a set number of pieces from their vendors for the remaining pieces.
   
5. Upon completion of the pieces, using the factory's quality control, Joe takes delivery of the product and sells it. Who he sells it to is his choice. The factory charges him $Y per watch. Joe can either turn around and sell it to a dealer for $Y*2 or directly to the end consumer and charge a typical mark up of $Y*3 or $Y*4.
   

For Prebuilt Replicas

• Joe decides he wants to buy a certain type of replica and the factory that he works with is able to produce it.
  
• Joe works out a price with the factory for the completed project.
  
• Factory creates the number of cases that Joe wants (after a price is determined) and then they turn around and order a set number of pieces from their vendors for the remaining pieces.
  
• Upon completion of the pieces, using the factory's quality control, Joe takes delivery of the product and sells it. Who he sells it to is his choice. The factory charges him $Y per watch. Joe can either turn around and sell it to a dealer for $Y*2 or directly to the end consumer and charge a typical mark up of $Y*3 or $Y*4
  

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if you are able to find the avenue to get there, you could greatly help the rep community if you so chose and hurt collectors if that was your cup of tea. The end consumer (you all) would be thrilled at lower prices for better quality and the collectors would be appalled at the fact that their unobtainable resource has been pierced by the Consumer driven West. Like I said.."Typical mark up" is 3 to 4 points over what you paid for it. I base my assumptions when looking at rep watches with that understanding. So if I see a rep being sold for $300 by a "collector", I naturally assume it only cost the collector $100 to purchase it from the factory. Based on reports I've read here and elsewhere where they say that good quality reps can be had at these watch markets in southern china for around $100 US makes me think that the actual markup is higher but I will deterimine that when I visit them myself and "purchase" some of the better quality reps.

Regarding wages, it's amazing how drastically different it can be across the world. How much would you say a typical 30 min. taxi ride would cost in the US? In Zhongshan, China you can take a 30 min. taxi ride for around 35 RMB which roughly equates to around $5 US. Here in the States, my company pays a wet behind the ears mechanical engineer right out of school a starting salary of around $55000 a year. In China, the same engineer would make roughly $20,000 a year.

And Victoria,

I didn't see anything personally offensive about your joke. Just know that Asians typically only have a hard time with L and replace L with R so Rosie would have said, "So sorry." and some Chinese would have said:

"Is this okay?"

"Rooks okay to me"

"Rorexs ready to ship!"

[Victoria]

For Custom made replicas:

1. Joe wants to have some rep watches made and has capital to invest in the making of these watches.
   
2. Joe finds a factory in China that is capable of making them. More then likely the factory itself only makes cases but has their own vendors that they outsource for the other parts such as bracelets, straps, dials, movements, etc.
   
3. Joe works with the factory on exactly what he wants (might even utilize their own engineering capabilities) and the factory makes a few prototypes. Who pays for them is based upon the deal worked out between the factory and Joe.
   
4. Factory creates the number of cases that Joe wants (after a price is determined) and then they turn around and order a set number of pieces from their vendors for the remaining pieces.
   
5. Upon completion of the pieces, using the factory's quality control, Joe takes delivery of the product and sells it. Who he sells it to is his choice. The factory charges him $Y per watch. Joe can either turn around and sell it to a dealer for $Y*2 or directly to the end consumer and charge a typical mark up of $Y*3 or $Y*4.
   

Very educated guess, and concisely written to boot. Given our peaks into the business here and there, this seems exactly what must happen.

Unlike many people, I don't mind the markups, even if they are outrageous by Western standards. If a Rolex is less than U$5 to produce, and sells for $100, I'll pay.

Psychologically, the fact these watches are located in the Far East, and the fact that I have nowhere near any kind of Canal St. near me, MUST play a role in my mind. I'm factoring in the plane ride, the hotel stay, the bartering for the best piece, and a thousand things I'd have paid for, for each and every rep I buy.

Perhaps illogical, but true.

I didn't see anything personally offensive about your joke. Just know that Asians typically only have a hard time with L and replace L with R so Rosie would have said, "So sorry." and some Chinese would have said.

Thanks, Gavidoc.

I've received two very nice PMs about this, as well as approaching one person of East Asian origin myself to apologise/explain. All of them were gracious, and understanding.

In today's poisoned PC-climate, where comics can't be funny, and shock jocks can't shock anymore, it's good to know some people take things the right way. Much appreciated.

Anyway, back to the topic. Nice week!

[anton]

Very educated guess, and concisely written to boot. Given our peaks into the business here and there, this seems exactly what must happen.

Unlike many people, I don't mind the markups, even if they are outrageous by Western standards. If a Rolex is less than U$5 to produce, and sells for $100, I'll pay.

Psychologically, the fact these watches are located in the Far East, and the fact that I have nowhere near any kind of Canal St. near me, MUST play a role in my mind. I'm factoring in the plane ride, the hotel stay, the bartering for the best piece, and a thousand things I'd have paid for, for each and every rep I buy.

Perhaps illogical, but true.

Good analogy! Apologizing to go off topic again, but in response to Victoria's commnent:

Imagine the horror when the wife and I went to Orlando last month and came home with Disney World souvenirs.

Cost of Disney World souvenirs: $200

Overall cost to buy these souvenirs: $3,000.