rodwc Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 We all know that the watch wholesalers get their watches from the factories. How is this achieved, there are literally thousands of sellers, of different brands and quality. How many factories ? 5, 6 , ........12 ? Could the factories have wholesale wharehouses set up ? Do the dealers simply go to a factory shop? ( factory outlet ). Could there be dozens of rep. representatives hawking the different models around? Whichever way it is done, has to be on quite a big scale. Any ideas ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 How many factories ? 5, 6 , ........12 ? 100s-1000s, more like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdavis Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 This is the way I envision the production of replicas in China is handled. It may not be !00% correct but, I think that it is close. The rep industry in China is much like the cottage industries found in EU and the US before the industrial revolution. The "factories" are located in homes and other small buildings rather than a large manufacturing facility. Various components are gathered and sent to these backyard facilities then assembled in others that are scattered about by the so called "skilled Swiss trained" personnel. Assembled products are then disbursed to the dealers or sellers. There are no warehouses or formal distribution facilities for this trade. This system works well because it can be pulled down and relocated in a short time should the authorities decide to close in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 The "factories" are located in homes and other small buildings rather than a large manufacturing facility. Possibly for assembly, but large cnc milling machines, various lathes, power presses, guillotines, etc. in homes,other small buildings? This is on a large ( think BIG ) scale. Even if the actual manufacture was centralised then parts distributed to smaller assembly points, this would have to be on a massive scale. Co-ordination, quality assessment etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxus Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 I'm sure thee is some sort of organized system to manufacture, assemble and distribute the merchandise and it's parts. However we shouldn't be as concerned with how it all works as much as that fact that somehow it DOES work and we are relatively happy with the finished/delivered product. At least that is my point of view, surely it would be interesting to know but often times it's better to not know too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 I'm sure thee is some sort of organized system to manufacture, assemble and distribute the merchandise and it's parts. However we shouldn't be as concerned with how it all works as much as that fact that somehow it DOES work and we are relatively happy with the finished/delivered product. At least that is my point of view, surely it would be interesting to know but often times it's better to not know too much. I suppose its like knowing all the facts in the food chain, especially with the animals we eat, Then , I think it`s better not to know too much. ( I don`t want to turn vegetarian ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 This is a really interesting question, I'd really appreciate knowing more myself about the process to market of our watches. There has been mention of "THE WATCH ENTHUSIAST " who seems to be responsible for a lot of the reps. Is this just a Myth? also how many reps are there of any model? I often wonder how many Pam 127's or 177H's there are walking around out there? Because I've not meet anybody else yet? Regards ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 This is a really interesting question, I'd really appreciate knowing more myself about the process to market of our watches. Regards ST Then we would know the FULL story, and appreciate more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Obviously if we all knew in detail how to access the watches straight from the factory then you can be sure that there will be a million fly-by-night dealers setting up. Some things are best left alone. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Obviously if we all knew in detail how to access the watches straight from the factory then you can be sure that there will be a million fly-by-night dealers setting up. Some things are best left alone. Ken I was`nt thinking about accessing the watches straight from the factory, simply the incredible process necessary to get them to the market. but agree with the presumption of fly-by-night dealers setting up,and unscrupulous entrepreneurs . The same discussion could be had about the illegal ivory trade. Yes, there is a world wide ban on the sale of ivory, but elephants are still being slaughtered for their ivory, and ivory is still being traded on the black market. "Some things are best left alone" ? Not in the ivory trade they aren`t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Think you may find it is more like.... There a couple or a few plants which do CNC work and specialise in cases (Both rep and for gen manufacturers,) There are a couple of plants doing dials (All sorts) A couple selling pins and spring bars.... some others with hands... A couple or three who do various bracelets/straps.... and of course movement suppliers. Or some intermix of the above. Also other parts suppliers.. O rings, crystals, etc etc. THEN the entrepreneurial "wholesaler" takes a photo, or a watch,(in bits) to each of his suppliers and gets pricing for his required parts... gets the best he can.... or orders a quantity.... and his family or extended family and friends assemble all the bits. Sometimes a supplier runs out of stock, so he uses the next best available component supplier. This may be a lot closer to the true scenario, albeit it may be on a bigger scale, it would certainly explain the variations we see in the "same" model, also the "dealer" incarnations eg MBK, MBW. etc. Just a wild guess, however with a little understanding of the Chinese watch parts trade! Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmythree Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote = Think you may find it is more like.... There a couple or a few plants which do CNC work and specialise in cases (Both rep and for gen manufacturers,) There are a couple of plants doing dials (All sorts) A couple selling pins and spring bars.... some others with hands... A couple or three who do various bracelets/straps.... and of course movement suppliers. Or some intermix of the above. Also other parts suppliers.. O rings, crystals, etc etc. THEN the entrepreneurial "wholesaler" takes a photo, or a watch,(in bits) to each of his suppliers and gets pricing for his required parts... gets the best he can.... or orders a quantity.... and his family or extended family and friends assemble all the bits. Sometimes a supplier runs out of stock, so he uses the next best available component supplier. This may be a lot closer to the true scenario, albeit it may be on a bigger scale, it would certainly explain the variations we see in the "same" model, also the "dealer" incarnations eg MBK, MBW. etc. Just a wild guess, however with a little understanding of the Chinese watch parts trade! Offshore /quote You are probably right. The Asian factories that make high quality name brand components would have top of the line case and bracelet making equipment and it would not be much trouble to reprogram cad/cam equipment now and then to crank out a few hundred (or thousand) replica cases and bracelets. A friend works in a big automotive component manufacturing factory and he changes machine tool programs daily to make different components on the same machine tools. He said it would be very simple to make watch cases, backs, bezels, and bracelet parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendofSpeed Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 The only pieces you could not have made at the big factories is the pieces that have trademarked logos on them... so, the majority of the watch pieces could be made at the big houses... I used to work at a rubber manufacturing plant in research and development... two of the bigger pipe o-ring gasket manufacturers had their gaskets produced at our factory... the same machine, the same mold, the same rubber design formula (i did it)... the only difference was that the insert in the mold was taken out and replaced with each manufacturer's info.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 quality assessment Quality what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Wow, my first double post. Let me erase this first one, and put a photo here instead: Vietnamese factory workers. Look how happy! The boss lady is happy! The sewing machine specialist is happy! Everyone looks well-fed and HAPPY! I'm so happy now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Obviously if we all knew in detail how to access the watches straight from the factory then you can be sure that there will be a million fly-by-night dealers setting up. Some things are best left alone. I know we've been ragging on him, but this is where a work like Ph.DGuy's might prove informative. If he is concentrating simply on the user-end of informal economies, then that's no use to us. But if his dissertation uncovers, no not the actual factories' names, but how they operate to breathe life into the pirated goods trade, I'm sure a few of us would be lining up to read it. Jdavis got it right, I believe, in part -- about the assembly bit. It's like potcheen making in Ireland, or South Africa, or moonshine in the Appalachias. Basically, a mom and pop production in-house, which everyone knows exists, but neighbours don't squeal because they must get "benefits". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Right now everyone is happy with the system we have, yes some will say that the end price is getting too high but in general everyone is still buying their reps.... I wonder how much info it will take to upset the apple cart? A while back someone made a statement that he wouldn't touch my goods because they were the end result of child sweatshops, now I have good reason to believe this is not the case, yet I could still be wrong. So does any intelligent person truly believe that part of our watch manufacturing/assembly could not also happen within sweatshops? How would this affect you? And again I need to say that if the 'Factory to you' was ever fully covered (and only the dealers know the full story) there would be many within these boards who would be on the first flight to China to seek their fortune and that would be the end of our blissful little hobby. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 A while back someone made a statement that he wouldn't touch my goods because they were the end result of child sweatshops, now I have good reason to believe this is not the case, yet I could still be wrong. I think anyone who is in this hobby, whether seller or buyer, struggles with this moral question. Haven't quite made peace with it, or made sense of it, even to myself -- I am just hopeful that since watchmaking is so intricate, that at least child labour isn't involved. And sadly, I cannot police what happens in other countries, and what other cultures consider to be appropriate working conditions. I once saw a reportage on 20/20 (a TV news magazine) where a female Vietnamese factory boss slapped around her workers. When the American Nike execs told her in no uncertain terms to stop, she said her culture didn't think such behaviour was cruel, or unusual. It's a very intricate situation... @Kenberg below: God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 watchmaking is so intricate I once saw a documentary where child labor was being used to make top end electronics, they were actually making the circuitry boards, so I don't believe that much of our watch processing (take straps for instance) would be beyond them. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Quality what? QUALITY ASSESSMENT. Big difference from Quality Control. ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Right now everyone is happy with the system we have, yes some will say that the end price is getting too high but in general everyone is still buying their reps.... I wonder how much info it will take to upset the apple cart? A while back someone made a statement that he wouldn't touch my goods because they were the end result of child sweatshops, now I have good reason to believe this is not the case, yet I could still be wrong. So does any intelligent person truly believe that part of our watch manufacturing/assembly could not also happen within sweatshops? How would this affect you? And again I need to say that if the 'Factory to you' was ever fully covered (and only the dealers know the full story) there would be many within these boards who would be on the first flight to China to seek their fortune and that would be the end of our blissful little hobby. Ken I've been told, that, although sweatshop conditions and pay are pitiful by western standards, westerners often forget the very different social conditions in the countries involved, and, to those working in a sweatshop, that is a job which puts food on their table (not much, but it's better than starving to death on the streets) One of my friends used to visit Thailand as a sex tourist (he now lives and works in Tokyo), and he pointed out just how cheap the cost of living in such countries actually is, so sweatshop wages, are not so bad compared to the cost of living. Of course, I only have his word to go on, but, it didn't seem an unreasonable statement, given how much he said other things were costing. PS Ken, I might have to invest in some of your Nikes soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 I've been told, that, although sweatshop conditions and pay are pitiful by western standards, westerners often forget the very different social conditions in the countries involved, Though this shouldn't make any of us preen, I always mention this to people complaining about sweatshops. Do RWG Americans recall the infamous Kathy Lee Gifford sweatshop labour scandal? She was selling her clothing label at Wal-Mart at profit, whilst the Hondurans who were making the garments were paid something like $0.72 per hour to make it. She was outted by a labour activist in the US, and went crying to the factories, vowing that the locals would earn a more decent wage. What she wasn't told, or because some people just don't grasp this, is that 0.72 U$ per hour in Honduras is "okay". A loaf of bread costs less than an American nickel. A bus ride doesn't even register in American dollars (in the parallel currency). I honestly believe that there are some people on this earth that think what they earn and spend in their countries, is what the Third World does too. Don't think for a moment I am arguing for sweated labour. Just for the perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 QUALITY ASSESSMENT. Big difference from Quality Control. ! "Is this rokay?" "Rooks rokay to me" "Loleks leady to ship!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Though this shouldn't make any of us preen, I always mention this to people complaining about sweatshops. Do RWG Americans recall the infamous Kathy Lee Gifford sweatshop labour scandal? She was selling her clothing label at Wal-Mart at profit, whilst the Hondurans who were making the garments were paid something like $0.72 per hour to make it. She was outted by a labour activist in the US, and went crying to the factories, vowing that the locals would earn a more decent wage. What she wasn't told, or because some people just don't grasp this, is that 0.72 U$ per hour in Honduras is "okay". A loaf of bread costs less than an American nickel. A bus ride doesn't even register in American dollars (in the parallel currency). I honestly believe that there are some people on this earth that think what they earn and spend in their countries, is what the Third World does too. Don't think for a moment I am arguing for sweated labour. Just for the perspective. Absolutely, and I quite agree, what people can sometimes lack, is the perspective to appreciate that different countries and cultures have different economies as well. This was what my friend was saying about Thailand. That someone could spend the night in a 5 star hotel, for the equivelent of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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