Noctilumina.

[rodwc]

This is not a post as to which is better, merley a comparisson between

Noctilumina and Superluminova.

Most of you have seen the results of the Superluminova ( on lume jobs ) from other members that have either had them done,

or did the job themselves.

I am a "hands on " person , I am willing to listen to any opinion on most things, I then make up my own mind

and follow that path. If it turns out good, I feel satisfied and rewarded, if it turns out bad or indifferent, at least I have attempted to " do it my way ". ( Time is not a pre-requisite for me . )

After reading here the pro`s and con`s about Superluminova, price , application etc. and

not being experienced or knowledgable on re-luming watch dials, I decided to take the Noctilumina path,

both on price , availability and application. Noctilumina is priced at US $ 32.95 plus $22 shipping and handling , to Australia. I believe Superluminova is approx. US$ 90. plus shipping.

This I did through Ebay.

The package arrived this morning,the contents were well packaged and included instructions.

The label on the outside of the box read, " Shake well before use " . I can`t tell you if this refers to the box or

the whole box and contents itself, or just the contents!!

A few pics, Tools etc., applicators, Lume Kit, Subject Dial.

I will add Part 2,to the bottom of this post, when available.

Didn`t have a Joe Blow, so used a Boy Blew instead.

Ordinary oilers, sharpened toothpicks should also work just fine.

This is an old dial, to practice on. ( It hasn`t ever been lumed before.Same as the hands .)

[Toadtorrent]

Ok...I'm totally loving this post. I need to see the next installment!! Thanks for the great play by play!!

[Ztech]

I too am anxious to see the progress of this. Thanks for the thread rodwc.

[rodwc]

Am not trying to drag this out, believe me.

I have only just got the kit, dis-assembled the watch, got all the tools together,

wrote up the introduction, pics etc.

and am working on the dial right now.

I will attempt to post pics. when the lume. is applied, also lume shots.

The lume takes 72 hours to dry, but hopefully everything will be up before then.

Thanks for your patience.

[Toadtorrent]

Am not trying to drag this out, believe me.

Hey it's RWG...we expect people to rush things so we can have instant feedback and live vicariously through your efforts.

Just kidding...take your time and do a good job.

[Ztech]

I just can't wait to see how this will turn out. Things like this gives me false hope that I too can one day do stuff like this.

[Sir-Lancelot]

thanks for doing this. I am anxious to see the results. I have came [this] close to buying that same kit on ebay.

Your results will go a long way to making up my mind.

thanks again.

[rodwc]

Part 2.

It`s nice and rewarding to achieve sucess at the first attempt, in this case certain things have emerged,

showing that this is not about to happen, without quite a few changes.

Firstly , I found that the pigment crystals were far too coarse.

Another member (possibly ssurfer)? mentioned this, back in Oct. 07.

So they are going to need grinding down further, for application and mixing purposes.

Imagine mixing fine sand with oil, then trying to apply that compound to a minute space.

The actual size of the sand grains simply will not allow access to fine corners.

It simply is not going to happen with any degree of sucess, and appearance.

So this is going to come down to the consistancy of the media.

The time factor, between mixing and applying is important, that is, mix the lume at the exact time you

are going to apply it, even then, thinner is going to be needed to keep it in a fluent state.

Even after 45 mins. the mix started to thicken.

The Zigmeister mentioned in one of his post`s on luming that this media is "like painting with snot ".

Quite an apt and descriptive term, but so far "Noctilumina" does not have that consistancy.

It really doesn`t even "slide", to be able to push and cajole it into tight corners.

At this stage , the luminecense is not glowing anything like , the 36 hours, stated.

It glows beautifully, but does not , at this stage , LAST, for much more than 5 Mins.

Maybe more pigment is required in the mix ?

The patchy glow in the pic, shows a shortage of lume, and really, if any more was

applied it would have too big a buld up.

The hands , not being pierced are almost impossible to lume with any degree of neatness.

These are some of the problems associated with trying out an unknown product.

Maybe by posting these problems, a solution may be found to overcome any difficulties.

In all honesty I have tried using this kit , to the best of my ability,and consider the results

pretty poor.

I really don`t think re-luming a dial (any dial) is a job for DIY.

Considerable skill is required with the lume media, let alone placing it in the right position.

I would not recommend anyone try this on ANY half decent watch, ( it will certainly be ruined ).

So , am I disapointed, not really, I tried something and it didn`t work for me.

Simply, you win some, you loose some, nothing ventured , nothing gained.

Ho- Hum.............."such is life ".

Save your money lads.

[Ztech]

Thanks for the follow up rodwc. Like you said, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Great job at giving it a go. Now I'm 110% sure this is not for me.

[capice]

nice project Rod, cool pics

[FxrAndy]

I have tried with ready set glow, and with simlar results, the best i got was with a set of sub hands but trying to do a dial was near impossible due to the coursness of the grain, even with the hands it had to be applied from the rear and then thinned out with a thinner to reduce its thickness and allow the hands to pass, the lume efect was very good for a cheep medium and glows as long as the superluminover dial. it takes a long time to do, is very hard to achive good results. It is got to try these things your self so that you realise the skill that people like Ziggy have.

The sub is on the right and the pictures were taken on amy cam phone so it it a very fast exposure, the hands on the left watch were bought from ebay with Super luminover??

[offshore]

OK,

From one, who would NEVER contemplate taking on this sort of a project...(too old...eyes not the best....DT's from alcohol abuse )........ a couple of thoughts/questions.

Is there a correlation between the cost of the media, and the ability to apply it? ie, Do you think "much better" product would produce a major improvement?

I know you guys haven't seen/used the top grade media, but would a better product give you a big increase in results?

I realise this is all subjective, but any thoughts are interesting.

Also, what degree of "experience" as in working on tiny areas, be it mechanical, or in this instance "painting", do you think applies to this undertaking?

I'm trying here to get some sort of an understanding of the level of result, from a person who works on watches daily, as against a "weekend' hobbyist!

And do you think that an artistic bent, or training would assist? Much?

As said.....subjective.... however the responses would be "interesting".

Offhsore

[RWG Technical]

I think Noctiluma, despite what some modders insist, is crap. It's too thick and too grainy. It's cheap, for a reason...

Super Luminova from RC Tritec is the only product for me, and it's no surprise that all the Genunine watches use SL, I have seen lots of "L" marked dials, but never a dial marked as "N" for Noctiluma.

Two things:

1. Practical experience under a loupe, hours and hours of practical experience makes all the difference, as well as hand eye skill and coordination, and yes, a bit of artistic talent helps.

2. Using Super Luminova you would have had much better results.

The biggest failure is that you used Noctiluma, not your lack of skills. You can also buy AF Lume kits, they are cheaper than Super Lume kits, but have the same fine grain quality as Super Lume does...

Your experience is why I dont' believe the hype associate with modders who use a "special" blend of lume to achieve what "appears" (think long camera exposure times) to be amazing results. All you have to do is go to the RC Tritec site and read about C3 Super Lume, it's got the best long term glow, period. Adding anything to C3 only makes it duller, not brighter, it's like mixing 20% alchool with 15% alchool and expecting something stronger than 20% in the end.

If there was something brighter available than C3, I think RC Tritec scientists would have invented it by now. I don't believe for one minute that anyone on any forum has the skills or chemicals to suddenly mix up a "Super Bright lasts 36 hours Glow" lume mix...in their kitchen no less... but some people will believe anything, especially when the pictures appear to validate the claim.

RG

[szvwj]

Great thread. I very much appreciate your "experiment".

Any chance you'll try using Super Luminova at some point (per The Zigmeister)?

I might have to give this a try myself (when I have a dial I don't mind ruining).

[Slartibartfast]

Great post rodwc. You beat me to it! I am just at the same stage as you, having bought a Notilumina kit myself at the beginning of the month. My first attempt was terrible. I had to remove it from the dial before it set. Not enough binder! I have found that to get a good consistency, the trick is to add the pigment to the binder (and not add binder to pigment). It makes a BIG difference. I bought ultra fine pigment and mixed that with a medium grade, and it didn't seem to be too grainy. It went on quite well. The dial I applied it to didn't have any lume (just faux painted markers), so even Noctilumina is a 100% improvement in 'glow factor'.

I agree with The Zigmeister's comments. This is a job for a highly skilled and experienced person, and I am sure that materials costing 3 times the amount will yield better results. I have many years experience as a draughtsman, so using a 0.18 tech pen for detailed work isn't foreign to me, which I am sure helps.

My results aren't fantastic, by any means, but I am not beaten just yet. I bought this kit to have a bit of DIY fun with. I will persevere, and who knows, I might get better at it!

[tootall]

Are you using the Ultra fine powder that he sells?

I have used Noctilumina with good results, but only with the ultra fine powder. It is much closer to Super luminova in grain size. And it mixes better as well.

You have to make sure to tell the guy that you are using it for watches and that you want the ultra fine powder.

The Zigmeister, no disrespect, but this Noctilumina does glow brighter for longer than C3. The advantage of Super Luminova (and it's a major one) is that since the gen makers use SL, they have standardized colors for the lume. Which makes it look closer to gen. Not to mention a smaller grain size which applies better. Although the Ultra fine Noctiluma is so close you can't tell a difference.

The binder is actually better with the Noctilumina. But again, there are only two colors.

[KB]

Oh well Rod nothing ventured nothing gained thanks for giving it a go.

But once again a word from the wise man Ziggy shows us that if your modder is offering better than C3 lume.......you need a new modder.

Ken

[szvwj]

It looks like Tritec uses a Stylograph pen to apply their Luminous Pigment: http://www.rctritec.com/index.php?id=15

Does anyone know about this setup (or if there's something similar available in the US)?

Maybe a sharp toothpick works just as well in a skilled hand (the weakest link may be between the brain and the fingers).

[rodwc]

The best part about this whole "experiment", are the comments above.

There are quite a few questions and answers which, to be frank, I never thought of.

The main part to me ,was the consistancy of the lume being applied, coupled with the fact

that I didn`t even know about the ultra fine pigments, and never considered mixing the pigment

TO the binder , ( not vise versa )

I think that the applicator pen is great, but for our purposes, one or two dials here and there,

would be too expensive.

As this is all hobby based and not for a commercial venture, I am sure that a lot more knowledge

can come from this , if members post their results, both GOOD and BAD.

It takes "balls" to post an attempt which has turned out pretty bad, but from that bad effort can come learning

for others.

Sorry if I took any glory away Startibartfast , but I had no idea any one else was contemplating this.

So now we all know the level of difficulty, and I for one will still experiment, as to me , this is still a challenge.

"I know you guys haven't seen/used the top grade media, but would a better product give you a big increase in results?"

Good question,......... my answer is ,at this stage , I don`t know.

"do you think that an artistic bent, or training would assist? Much?"

Think that it would be a definate plus to start with, but then with practice and application, experience would

come atomatically.

I have seen some ceramic antique dial restorations done here in Melbourne, and the restorer is a woman in her late 40`s

she has taught herself the materials and application, and the results are totally brilliant.

We have seen the results ,The Zigmeister turns out,

that is the level to aspire to.

I believe it can be done, and from someone fom this board.

[doc savage]

This is kind of making me want to give it a whirl; I have quite a bit of experience painting tiny parts. I would personally use a 3D microscope, though.

Some general tips:

NO caffeine or any other stimulants for several hours prior. This affects finger steadiness more than you might expect.

Brace your hands in a comfortable position, so you can relax. It's easier to make precise movements with as little tension in the hand as possible.

Try different ways of holding your stylus, pointing towards you with your knuckles on the work surface is a good one. You want to be able to see exactly what's going on, so holding it like a pen usually isn't so great.

[offshore]

use a 3D microscope,

NO caffeine or any other stimulants for several hours prior. This affects finger steadiness more than you might expect.

Brace your hands in a comfortable position, so you can relax. It's easier to make precise movements with as little tension in the hand as possible.

Try different ways of holding your stylus, pointing towards you with your knuckles on the work surface is a good one. You want to be able to see exactly what's going on, so holding it like a pen usually isn't so great.

S**T Doc,

That is what I have to do...................................to change a battery!

Offshore

[Slartibartfast]

OK, being inspired by rodwc's brilliant post on his experiences with Noctilumina,

I thought that I would take the plunge and share my results with you guys.

As rodwc said, share the good AND the bad so that we can all learn, and hopefully improve.

I started with my 1655 project watch. This baby has been apart and back together again more times than Tower Bridge, but

I have not finished with it yet. Here is a shot of the dial after removing the lume that I had painted on using

a mixture of acrylic paint and Night Colour.

After mixing up a small batch of Noctilumina using a 50-50 mix of the ultra fine and the medium grade, I tinted the mix

using both gold and brown colours to give a vintage colour to the mix.

The first results were crap, and had to be removed before it set. I tried again the following weekend, with more success,

and also had a go at the hands too. I used a 0.18 tech pen and a 5x loupe.

Now my results aren't that good, I know, so please don't reply stating the bloody obvious! But I am keen to carry on with this

and improve my skills the more practice I get. I have greatly enjoyed this first attempt, and am sure that a second is on the way soon.

I would stress to all that are thinking of giving this a go for themselves, that it is far from easy, isn't quick, will

probably disappoint you and make you wish you hadn't bothered. But if you take the view that you may improve the more

you practice, then why not try for yourself!

Oh yes, and the glow isn't too bad either!

(I know it should be green, I bought the wrong stuff (yada, yada, yada) )

As rodwc said, if anyone wants to share their Nocitlumina experiences, step up!

[P4GTR]

My simple DIY bezel tightening went sour, you should know since your bailing me out.

That being said, thanks for pre-saving me from another possible DIY disaster.

[szvwj]

I recently decided to try my hand at re-luming. I used NoctiLumina because it's not too expensive and it's a LOT easier to acquire than Superluminova.

I used Noctilumina Pigment G8UF (Ultra Fine < 5 micron) along with Binder 1A and Thinner 1A. I practiced several times, then went for it on my BCE dial (couldn't resist).

I know it's not perfect, but unless I'm looking at it under magnification, I can't see the flaws. It glows much better than the rep lume (sorry, no picture, my low-light camera skills are lacking). Just as a un-scientific test, I held it under a light before going to bed (10:30pm) and at 3:00am, I could still see the markers. I seriously doubt that it would last the claimed 8 hours.

I'm dying to try Superluminova, I keep hearing that it's easier to work with and has better performance. I didn't think the noctilumina was that terrible to work with (at least not the G8UF), so Superluminova should be even better.

Now I just need some Rodico so I can clean everything up. Oh yea, and I need to re-lume the hands.

[Sir-Lancelot]

szvwj,

You are a stubborn man. lol I like that and I admire your never say never attitude. It is contagious.

I think you did a great job for your first time. Did you remove the old lume or put it on top of the rep lume?

I think I may try this out on a sandwich dial pam, just because. On a 1-10 how is the glow?