Obama, Clinton, McCain: International Poll

[Richard Tracy]

Edit to add this link to Paul's view on race: hxxp://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2007/10/ron_paul_on_rac.html (replace the xx with tt)

Are those below mis-information ? If so I will amend my view of the man...

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=...15-4532a7da84ca

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2007/05/ron-pauls.html

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/ron_paul_...st_anti_semite/

[tenacious_b]

even the first article casts serious doubts as to whether or not Paul even wrote them:

"Later, in 2001, Paul would claim that someone else had written the controversial passages. (Few of the newsletters contain actual bylines.) Caldwell, writing in the Times Magazine last year, said he found Paul's explanation believable, "since the style diverges widely from his own."

Say what you will about Ron Paul, but at least he says what he means, and falls on one side or another of the issues. During the democratic debate, neither Hillary nor Obama would give a yes or no when repeatedly asked simple yes or no type questions. They refuse to be nailed down to one side or the other of an issue, and it is this failure to commit that smacks of dishonesty. No one candidate possesses only admirable traits, but line them all up and make a list of good and bad, and Paul wins every time.

It boils down to this. Hit pieces can be written about anyone, and no one ever remembers the retraction, so I will only say that I have never taken issue with anything I have ever heard come out of Ron Paul's mouth on the radio or television. Someone could post on this forum in my name and say things to have me tried and convicted as a racist, and most of you would take it at face value, because, well it's posted under his username, so he obviously espouses those beliefs. Don't believe everything you hear, and even less of what you read.

Bryan

[Raijor]

I live in Canada and we have a long history of good relations with the U.S. and I believe that they will continue regardless of who is elected President. We are similar people with similar values who came from the same parentage. I believe that we in Canada view America much like a family member views a successful older sibling ... sometimes with admiration and sometimes with envy ... but in the end we are family and because of that we will always stick together and will always have a common connection.

[bubu]

Thanks guys, just wanted to get a global view of the US presidential race and stimulate debate. bubu

[ryyannon]

[surpur]

Obama hasn't said a thing profound IMO. The Clinton years were the best in this country since I have been alive and I would love for those days to be back. It is scary to me that the American people are naive enough to buy into Obama's preacher like ramblings. I guess the attraction is that he is unlike anyone that has been in office before and the people want a complete 180 degree turn from Bush. I also think that his Christianity has a lot to do with it which is also dissapointing because religion has no place in politics.

Flame me if you will, but noone seems to realize the fact that Obama is a radical racist. He claims that for the 30 some odd years he went to church with his preacher he never heard him talk about "the white man". Come on. He changed his name from Barry to Barak. The guy preaches how race should be left out of the election but that is all you hear from Oprah touting DR MLK's dream. This guy will run this country further into the ground than it already is. Hillary is a politician's politician. She knows how to play the game and she knows how to get things done. Plus Bill will be right with her.

Obama may get the nominee but there is no way he will be the next president. Reality is that John Mccain will be in office soon enough. Thank god for the electoral college. I forget which president it was but it was once said that the American people aren't smart enough to know who is best for the presidency. I concur.............

Amazing that is almost word for word what I think about the whole mess. Clinton needs to be nominated or we are stuck with a really old same old:

[giorgio]

The fact that it has boiled down to the three worst possible candidates proves just how stupid the average United States of American really is - now flame away!

[ryyannon]

The fact that it has boiled down to the three worst possible candidates proves just how stupid the average United States of American really is - now flame away!

I totally agree!

Just look at the twentieth century: what contribution did the average U.S. Joe make as Europe and Asia leaped ahead and developed Spanish Francism, Genocidal and Imperialistic German National Socialism, French Collaborism, Italian Fascism, Soviet Stalinism, the Eastern European satellite-State, Japanese Expansionism, North Korean-style Communism, Chinese Maoism, Cambodian Clusterfugism, (ryyannon's mind begins to cloud over with the effort of finding tags for Iran, Iraq, Rwanda, and dozens of other miserable little $hitholes all over the planet....)

Answer: none whatsoever! While the rest of the world was (and is) busy doing all of the above, all the U.S. could think of was to invent indoor plumbing, jazz, rock 'n roll, post-European modern art, blockbuster films, fast food, cool clothing, car culture, upward social mobility, a solid middle class, a concerted effort to eliminate racial discrimination, the most powerful economy in the history of the world, skateboards, in-line roller-blades and frisbies for everyone, The Marx Brothers, Bob Dylan, the two-car garage, many of the finest universities in the world along with the highest number of Nobel prize-winners, the goddam Internet, the very concept of fun, which prevents me from spending even more of my energy on this endless list, except to say: God, what a bunch ignornant, useless asses!

And now that the twenty-first century is blossoming with such promissing beauty, (Darfur, Chetchenia, Kosovo, the Balkans, Zimbabwe, The Middle East) once again the stupid Yankees are doing nothing except fanning the flames of discord in an otherwise peaceful world while quibbling over presidential candidates incapable of successfully running a paper-route let alone a (admittedly third-rate) country like the United States.

Really makes you wonder where things are headed....

[giorgio]

The world isn't America's problem, and America is not the world's police force. In fact, they are either directly or indirectly responsible for a large portion of the world's ills. The one you forgot to mention is American colonialism. Now we have 2 presidential candidates who would be more than happy to initiate the third world war. GWB ran on a platform of peace, and look at how that turned out. His buddy McCain dances around like a 5 year old singing "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!" and people cheer him on.

[ryyannon]

You got it!

American colonialism! Bringing on the Third World War!

If only we had the intelligence to leave things well enough alone, like....like.... Europe in 1938!

That really worked out well for you guys, didn't it?

[giorgio]

Unfortunately, this is just like 1938 - only this time the world is leaving things well enough alone.

[ryyannon]

Unfortunately, this is just like 1938 - only this time the world is leaving things well enough alone.

Yikes! You're way over my stupid American head with that one: can't make heads or tails out of it.

'Scuze me while I chug a pitcher of Bud Lite and try to ponder the meaning....

Yowza! Hold the presses! I think I get it!

It's like it's 1938 all over again, except this time it's the United States that are the evil Nazis, while civilized nations in Europe just look on impotently (ahem...once again) as the made-in-U.S.A darkness creeps unchecked and unabated across the planet!

That's it, right?

[spike]

Well being down here in New Zealand, I really couldn't care less who wins.

My own personal opinion though, well alot of American atitudes are still in the dark ages in some respects. I doubt very much that Americans are ready for either a coloured president or a woman president. For this reason, who-ever wins, Clinton or Obama will only have just over 50% of the vote of their party.

It's fair to say that a fair chunk of the opposing votes will be totally against a woman president (if Obama loses) or a coloured president (if Hilary loses).

While some of these will vote for the winning candidate, I think it's also realistic that the disgruntled voters will decide that even if he is in the wrong party, it's better to have a white, male president and vote for McCain. But then, what do I know, I'm in NZ??!!

[ryyannon]

You said it, bro.

[triplehd]

Being from Chi-town, everyone is crazy about Obama. I would ask Obama followers at work a simple question (on why he should be president) - what has he done for Illinois since being elected as a senator. Not to put the guy down - he's intelligent and a great speaker and all, but where's his experience?

As for Hilary, when she already ran the White House from 92-00, let someone else have their fun (unless she's trying to be elected as President so she can blow an intern and get her dress dirty to get even with Bill ).

Ol' Man McCain - hell, he lost against Bush as the Republican nom back in 2000. Is this the best candidate for the Republicans ?!?!?

Where's Jesse "THE MIND" Ventura at? He turned the state of Minnesota upside down. Tells it like it is. Shoots from the hip. Isn't connected to big business. And if you get in his face - he'll kick the living @*%# out of ya

JESSE 2008

[tomhorn]

If the dems give Hillary the nomination, the republicans could run anyone against her and I would vote for their candidate. And I mean anyone. She will say/do anything to get elected ... truth and the American people be damned. I don't think Obama's got enough experience to be President yet. Will be interesting to see if any major candidates emerge through third parties. IMO, the main key for McCain will be his running mate. If he gets someone good (like Colin Powell), he's a lock.

[archibald]

Hillary's candidacy has less than a week to go, by the way, so you guys that think she's the other half of the same evil thing can breathe easy. You can also practice saying President Obama.

For Democrats its going to be hard to decide what is going to be more satisfying part of the next six months. So far it's been watching Karl's minions grapple with the almost Shakesperian untragic irony that they did too good a job on their base over the last 8 years, that Rev. Huckabee was actually the political antichrist, and that now all the demonizing, race baiting, and lapel pins on the planet earth won't make "social conservatives" vote against their self interest this time since they think, correctly but for 100% of the wrong reasons, that voting McCain is as contrary to their self interests as much as voting barak HUSSEIN Obama.

It is going to be equally satisfying, though, as it becomes clear that even real republicans, the semi-educated and/or deeply greedy, won't be nearly as reliable as they would be if their boy Mitt had not been Huckabized, that Northern suburbanites don't like McCain very much (or at least not as much as they would like to show the neighbors how enlightened they are) and that (as yesterday's Washington Post and today's AP opening shots forshadow) six years in a box will make you more unfit to be President than 20 years of guzzling Lone Star possibly could.

But not to worry: Obama is deeply moderate and he's going to have a whole lot of rich people to thank on January 22nd of next year. The 401K is safe, the hedge fund millions are safer, and ain't nobody is going to have to downgrade their Yachts over the next four years. Only bad thing that can happen from a Republican's standpoint is that all that glorious killing may come to and end way too soon.

[beanyboy]

Hillary's candidacy has less than a week to go, by the way, so you guys that think she's the other half of the same evil thing can breathe easy. You can also practice saying President Obama.

For Democrats its going to be hard to decide what is going to be more satisfying part of the next six months. So far it's been watching Karl's minions grapple with the almost Shakesperian untragic irony that they did too good a job on their base over the last 8 years, that Rev. Huckabee was actually the political antichrist, and that now all the demonizing, race baiting, and lapel pins on the planet earth won't make "social conservatives" vote against their self interest this time since they think, correctly but for 100% of the wrong reasons, that voting McCain is as contrary to their self interests as much as voting barak HUSSEIN Obama.

It is going to be equally satisfying, though, as it becomes clear that even real republicans, the semi-educated and/or deeply greedy, won't be nearly as reliable as they would be if their boy Mitt had not been Huckabized, that Northern suburbanites don't like McCain very much (or at least not as much as they would like to show the neighbors how enlightened they are) and that (as yesterday's Washington Post and today's AP opening shots forshadow) six years in a box will make you more unfit to be President than 20 years of guzzling Lone Star possibly could.

But not to worry: Obama is deeply moderate and he's going to have a whole lot of rich people to thank on January 22nd of next year. The 401K is safe, the hedge fund millions are safer, and ain't nobody is going to have to downgrade their Yachts over the next four years. Only bad thing that can happen from a Republican's standpoint is that all that glorious killing may come to and end way too soon.

Wow. That was some rant Archibald. I especially love the "Huckebee was the political anitchrist" line. But I think too much of what you write and believe is wishful thinking rather than fact. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the polls in PA, and it looks like "late deciders" are breaking her way, which, according to the Gallup Organization, could lead to a 10 or 12 point victory for her. So I doubt her candidacy is over after tomorrow. The old battle axe is in it to stay, and she's taking it all the way to Denver for a Democratic Battle Royale that will make World Federation Wrestling look timid. By focusing on the supposed disarray of the GOP, you do disservice to your party, which is in the middle of its biggest rift since 1972. The rift can only lead to defeat, perhaps a crushing one, as it did in 1972, when the most hated and despised man in American politics since Aaron Burr (Richard Nixon), mopped up the floor with a supposed "lefty" (George McGovern). The entire and only reason why the Democrats have superdelegates is to avoid a repitition of this drubbing.

How you know that Obama is "deeply moderate" is puzzling. Have you met him? Even if you have it would not be indicative of how his administration will govern. I have met him, twice, and I have no idea! His record in the Illinois and national Senate betray a very different political sensibility--one which the GOP will use against him to toss him around like a ragdoll. As they did George McGovern.

So my guess is that the Democratic Battle Royale may lead to another interesting twist--a third candidate "dark horse" who comes in from the wings and unifies the party. CLinton and Obama will have to salve their wounds--Clinton can go back to the Senate and Obama can be the next viable Democratic POTUS candidate in 2012 or 2016. Maybe it'll be Al Gore, maybe it'll be John Edwards. Who knows? But that implausible occurence seems more likely every day the cage match continues.

[Victoria]

This is a detestful thread. I cannot believe, seeing how it contravenes the "no politics" rule and drips vitriol, why it hasn't been closed yet.

[beanyboy]

This is a detestful thread. I cannot believe, seeing how it contravenes the "no politics" rule and drips vitriol, why it hasn't been closed yet.

I don't think it's so bad, Victoria. In fact, except for a few entries, it's a pretty lucid discussion of the current state of Ameican politics, or at least the contest to see who becomes the next Democratic presidential nominee.

[slay]

Did anyone catch the recent TR Reid documentary on health care systems around the world? My PBS station aired it last night. Reid profiled the pluses and minuses of the British, Japanese, German, Taiwanese, and Swiss health care systems, and compared them to the U.S. model. We pay far more per capita on health care than any other country, yet we rank around 30th in the quality of health care worldwide. There is tons of room for reform and improvement, and for years I have considered it the number 1 issue that US leaders need to address.

The point is that McCain has no real health care proposals, Clinton has the most comprehensive proposal, and Obama proposes a plan that is less comprehensive than Clinton's. On that basis alone -- and the fact that I presume Clinton learned a lot from the drubbing she took during her previous foray into health care while Bill was president -- I would vote for Hillary.

But Obama is the better all around candidate and, I believe, would make a more effective leader.

The BIG difference between the USA and other countries is, that a brain surgeon does not earn close to half a MILLION a year. Over here he gets 100k tops (plus maybe cash for lectures and stuff like that) and has to work lots of 24h shifts etc. etc.

Also, overe here it does not costs 1000$ just to talk to the doctor at a hospital (I was at a hospital in the USA ONCE and he just prescribed antibiotics and the bill they sent me was 900 something something. Fortunately my insuarance even pays for private practice)

Medschool is also A LOT cheaper. In america? Something around a million? Over here? Free of charge. If you sign up at the army for 15 years, you even _get_ PAID during your time at college (something around 2.5k/month)

Edited April 21, 2008 by slay

[Victoria]

I don't think it's so bad, Victoria. In fact, except for a few entries, it's a pretty lucid discussion of the current state of Ameican politics, or at least the contest to see who becomes the next Democratic presidential nominee.

Beanyboy, Admin posted a reminder of the rules yesterday, I believe. I think that was his way of reminding people that there are certain rules in place on RWG. Sometimes things are let go, but politics is the ONE CORROSIVE TOPIC which ruins the atmosphere of a place more than any other.

I pity anyone that gets embroiled in this thread. Way to make enemies needlessly.

[beanyboy]

Beanyboy, Admin posted a reminder of the rules yesterday, I believe. I think that was his way of reminding people that there are certain rules in place on RWG. Sometimes things are let go, but politics is the ONE CORROSIVE TOPIC which ruins the atmosphere of a place more than any other.

I pity anyone that gets embroiled in this thread. Way to make enemies needlessly.

Sorry. I had no idea that this string was Verbotten! Please don't send the Gestapo after me....

[Guest asad]

WOW! OBAMA Is winning the poll here! Come November thats how he will win as well! 60/30%. Now that's landslide victory!

[slay]

How about Ron Paul?