Posting in other peoples sale post

[Dani]

I see Chads post of his HBB has been screwed up by some members here, if i do recall many of the same members crapped my MBW AP ROO post some time ago.

Have to ask why the [censored] you guys do that??You are some lame ass members to stirr such nastyness in other members post..

Mods shoud have been in that tread long time before it whent so bad..

I get so mad when i read that tread..

100$ + is not much to ask ekstra whit out members crying about it and have to open their mouth and scream like some bitches.

Go scream to trusty,angus,joshua and all the other beloved dealers you ahve they [censored] you out of even more money when you buy their crap replicas.

Dani

[doc savage]

If you don't want people commenting on your thread (not tread), try Ebay or Craigslist. If someone is selling a scratched up piece of junk for too much money, or something that can easily be had cheaper elsewhere, of course we are going to say something.

[TwoTone]

The Forum Rules are HERE for all to read...

There is nothing in them that says discussion can't take place in the Trade Forum...

This community is first and foremost about protecting the membership from being taken advantage of...

Rather it be on other sites or right here in our home...

If a private seller is going to ask more than the going price for a piece, then he needs to be prepared for replies...

There are many opinions on this topic...

And one answer is not going to suffice everyones feelings...

The key is - play nice and don't allow it to become personal...

Double T

[Dani]

If you don't want people commenting on your thread (not tread), try Ebay or Craigslist. If someone is selling a scratched up piece of junk for too much money, or something that can easily be had cheaper elsewhere, of course we are going to say something.

'

Its a big diffrent on saying somethign and being a bit ch..

[ximenes]

Post your topic, say your peace, let others comment without getting tangled up in detailed explanation or apology.

Be mellow, take it easy, go slow...

Xim

[Dani]

Post your topic, say your peace, let others comment without getting tangled up in detailed explanation or apology.

Be mellow, take it easy, go slow...

Xim

If it was so easy..

Some members cant seem to understand that premium is ok when watches had been modded or lets say got The Zigmeister lume try get a time slot at The Zigmeister ohh guess what it is not easy so when selling a watch whit mods such as that it has higher price, you pay you get, you dont like you dont buy.

Easy.

Everyone that crapped Chads post are in my shittlist long time ago anyways.

[KB]

Dani Chads watch had AR no other mods.

Mickey's first post was in no way a thread crap (read it) the seller just responded badly and it snowballed from there.

Ken

[Dani]

Dani Chads watch had AR no other mods.

Mickey's first post was in no way a thread crap (read it) the seller just responded badly and it snowballed from there.

Ken

I dont agree.

If it was the first crapping of peoples thread from this people then ok but its not.

[maulermacall@hotmail.com]

To me, a sales thread is strictly that. No "nice watch" or "great strap" comments. No one quibbling on prices. A seller can choose whatever price he sets for an item. Whilst I appreciate the community spirit, I think it would encourage people to research an item, rather than thread crapping whilst trying to protect others.

One forum I belonged to issued warnings to anyone that posted anything in a sales thread that wasnt relevant to the sale - thats includes recommending the seller (cant people look at the sellers profile for further information) Whilst harsh it really worked. I wouldnt like my sales threads spammed up with pointless posts and Im sure others wouldnt either.

[arminvanbuuren]

in a way i dont agree with price gouging from members to other members.. but i also dont agree with dealers(yes dealers!!) price gouging us! so here's the logic.. we thread crap on chad's thread but we all don't have the guts to tell the andrews or the joshes that they priced their watches too high.. instead we all praised them for the extra "good service", "good communication" bs that we never even get.. but we accept this.. and wat chad is saying is the same thing anyway.. he said he took customs risk, took a long time waiting in the AR slot.. sounds like the same argument as A&J having this "OOHHHH MY SERVICE IS MAD AND I ANSWER EMAIL EVERY 10 MINS BS"

i personally hate double standard.. i freaking hate it to guts.. so id say pick either one.. either leave chad alone and let the invisible hand do the talking, and leave the dealers alone for charging high prices.. OR thread/email crap both so we all live in a peaceful world.. but pls dont discriminate one or the other.. because we're all human (a homoeconomicus in that matter!)

my 0.02 tho

[iceberg1459]

I have an idea, lets nobody allow to post to someones sale thread. Buyers contact via pm anyway, also "nice watch", "omg this is steal" comments are unneccesary. What do you think.

[z3k0]

Well, first let me say that replies such as were made to chads post are pure and undisputable thread crapping for me. I don't know who benefited from making such malicious comments. I do not consider myself noob any more, but I was some 18 months ago. If anyone offered me back then to have watch I wanted with mods that are considered necessary for it (e.g. AR for HBB lites, ETA DWs on IWC chonos ...) and to have it right away, shipped w/o customs risks, and asked some premium over dealers prices - would I consider it rip-off - you bet I wouldn't, and would be very grateful to have it. Nowdays I would probably do all the stuff myself, but that is not the point here. And yes, when I was noob I spent days and days studying all data available here before making any purchases - and if anyone is lazy enough not to do that - well he has it coming.

And, why do some people here think they have the authority to judge if price is fair or not, and if there are enough mods done (or is it "just AR") to be allowed to make some premium over dealer price. And, BTW, our dear dealers have over 90% markup on HBB w/AR compared to HBB Lite (wo/AR) - taking Ice Bang for example. So why is there not sticky warning noobs about that ? And why nobody posts in dealers sections when they advertise such watches ... oh, I remember - because you can't post into dealer threads ... nuf said. And, I even don't want to touch "gen-ceramic-bezel-drives-price-up" topic because it would take discussion into wrong direction.

regards

[andreww]

I believe members should speak up. If someone is trying to sell a used watch for more than what our dealers are selling a brand new watch, with warranty for, then members have the right to know. I am not an expert in HBBs but can see that Chad was trying to pass his watch off for more than what it was. Where he got it from or how much he paid really has nothing to do with it. Simple fact, if you are trying to sell for above the market price, the membership should be aware. The sales section has gone to pot over the past year IMO. There will be some ugly episodes like this until sellers get the message, but in the long run I think we are better off without the opportunists that are trying to make a buck on naive members.

[peepshow]

Well, I posted my opinions in that thread, so I won't repeat myself here. I believe it's just locked and not binned or set to invisible, so people can go read it in the thread.

IMO, the only time something needs to be "corrected" or pointed out in a FS thread is if/when something is misrepresented (Asian movement advertised as Swiss, etc). EVERYTHING else should be handled by PM.

[arminvanbuuren]

oh right!.. if its brand new u can mark it up.. thats cool then just gives me an idea

nah my point is not the fact that members shouldnt speak up about it.. but boycotting ppl from buying it.. calling it ripoffs and stuff id say unecessary.. and im not saying thats wat mickey padge is doing.. its the snowball effect after his post that got into this boycotting nature.. because i have to agree with the post above.. if we're all gonna boycott used watches from being sold above the retail price because they did some "GOOD SERVICE, AVOIDED CUSTOM, MODDED".. then shouldn't we boycott josh and andrew and other dealers who mark up their watches ALOT for this "GOOD SERVICE, COMMUNICATION, etc. BS" same logic really..

again i agree with wat mickey padge said!! but stopping and ruining someones sales thread? man come on, he's trying to make money and feed his children and wife, let him.. like i myself is a believer of karma.. wat if one day ur doing ur business watever it is.. and theres some bee-like person outside telling ur customers that ur a scam eventho u believe that u arent and all ur trying to do was make money? and ur business gets ruined because of it? wat would u feel like? n im betting u thats wat hes feeling like now

Edited April 22, 2008 by arminvanbuuren

[peepshow]

I believe members should speak up. If someone is trying to sell a used watch for more than what our dealers are selling a brand new watch, with warranty for, then members have the right to know. I am not an expert in HBBs but can see that Chad was trying to pass his watch off for more than what it was. Where he got it from or how much he paid really has nothing to do with it. Simple fact, if you are trying to sell for above the market price, the membership should be aware. The sales section has gone to pot over the past year IMO. There will be some ugly episodes like this until sellers get the message, but in the long run I think we are better off without the opportunists that are trying to make a buck on naive members.

I didn't see the original price, but don't joshua and andrew currently sell HBBs for something silly like $700-800 USD?

[andreww]

The version that Chad was selling did not have a ceramic bezel like Trusty & Josh's expensive version. His was basically the Lite version that Silix sells for under $400 with AR. He was trying to sell it for about $130 more than what it would cost to buy the watch new. I believe that people have the right to benefit from the knowledge of more educated members as to whether a price is fair or not. I know nothing about HBBs and may have unknowingly jumped at that watch, and am thankful for the input.

[bwhitesox]

Maybe buying a watch that already had the crystal AR coated was worth the additional $130 to someone though.

Personally I'm not very patient when it comes to waiting for stuff and with the AR coating it does take a while so I would have paid the extra.

I think if someone wants to make a bit extra on their watch then so what don't buy it if you think it's too much.

I mean aren't we all getting "ripped off" daily by the big dealers..Perhaps we should direct this towards them and not someone trying to make a bit of extra on one or two watches.

[Stephane]

I'll say GREY. Not black, not white.

Isn't it so that RWG is a public forum anyway as not every member who can read threads is registered?

Also, isn't it so that our level of knowledge depends on personal experience and amount of reading.

I hate thread crapping but I would like to get advices from posters in a sale thread on items I don't know very well personaly.

I'm not talking about Chad's one here, but in general only: if something seems wrong, the community should know.

A FS thread is not just an ad, it is a thread that must be commented freely too as some guests or members must be protected.

On the other hand, specificaly on prices.

It seems this is the problem in Chad's "for sale" thread;

As long as the requested price is not completely insane, why not ask a fee for the following:

- time spent to source parts

- wait to get them

- possible furstration of receivng the wrong item

- costs for receiving them finaly + additional wait time

- costs for sending them out with the watch to a modder

- shipping and mod costs to get it back.

- all the risks of seing these packages seized or lost.

All this deserves some cash back too in my opinion.

About my 4 last purchases, 2 were very pricey, though still a good deal (thanks again guys).

One in particular would have taken me a couple of years to build and I would probably have it wrong in the end anyway.

I have no problem to pay for the parts, the mods, the shipping and the wait of another member in this case.

Just my two cents.

Cheers

Stephane

PS: is anybody having a TW Best Sub 1st generation (that is thread crapping)

[arminvanbuuren]

The version that Chad was selling did not have a ceramic bezel like Trusty & Josh's expensive version. His was basically the Lite version that Silix sells for under $400 with AR. He was trying to sell it for about $130 more than what it would cost to buy the watch new. I believe that people have the right to benefit from the knowledge of more educated members as to whether a price is fair or not. I know nothing about HBBs and may have unknowingly jumped at that watch, and am thankful for the input.

may i break it down? nah im not arguing but may i break the down cost? this would be more educational then the thread crap because it didnt break down any cost.. it just says $130 markup blablablablablablabalbalbalabla.. for me the 130 mark up is by andrew and josh on their HBB expensive so yeh.. thread crap them.. because i'm not kidding this is what i paid when i did my mods on my watches

cost

1. silix prime hbb --> $400 <-- plus shipping like u said?

2. sending the watch to one of the modder for crystal popping --> $30 (assuming it's via registered airmail.. but i'm guessing ppl would send via ems?)

3. get the crystals out to k2222 poland from the modder (i got charged $10 for the postage and $30 for the crystal popping and put back in place) --> that's $40

4. paid k2222 another $55

5. waiting like a mutt at home sitting there wondering having a fantasy what the watch will look like and sometimes have paranoid feelings when u see some disaster happening during mods.. afraid of custom seizure, etc. --> priceless

6. if u've never had any ar coating runs sometimes u do have crystal remnants and have to go into re-run --> another wait, etc. --> priceless

7. if he was to sell his watch, Chad has to pay postage to his buyer (i'm assuming once again EMS? $30? fair price? because from aus EMS cost 70$)

so with the cost break down i came up with ---> 400 + 30 + 40 + 55 + 30 = $555.. and i'm guessing he's selling it for $530? ok thats a negative 25$ for him.. and oops should we take into accoung this bs from ur joshes and andrew that states "we dont dropship" but the watch comes DOA? how much would that cost? id say the QC control and no dropship crap that would cause the buyer another $30 to send back?

hell if u ask me the scammer here is not chad.. for me his pricing is ok not the best but ok.. but for spending 800$ for ceramic bezel crap that would come DOA and u need to spend an extra $30 to get it sent back to china? man u got to be joking me that no1 has ever complained about that.. but chad's u ppl make a big deal out of

/me shakes head

[Seadweller4000]

Maybe there should be a new pre-sale area installed, with four or five members as experts that enjoy nitpicking/crap other peoples sales. Then everybody who would like to sell something is FORCED to ask them what one is allowed to ask for a watch?

[andreww]

Maybe buying a watch that already had the crystal AR coated was worth the additional $130 to someone though.

It was $130 on top of the cost of the watch + AR

[arminvanbuuren]

again i agree with the above posts.. if u wanna make a big deal.. go save ur energy and give a big strike to the big dealers boycott all their purchases.. because they're scamming (marking up, or watever u want to call chad is doing) to thousands of ppl every year.. not just 1 or 2 watches that either chad or dani is doing.. so pls chad and dani is "scamming 1 noob".. ur all getting scammed by the dealers.. instead of saving some noob why cant u save ur freaking self!

[peepshow]

I'll ask again, who are WE to decide what is a fair price? I've seen lots of reps sell for far more than what I'd pay for them. Does that mean the buyer wasn't happy with the watch he/she got for the price he/she paid?

[By-Tor]

I understand both parties perfectly. Just like Two-Tone said, there is not one good solution available.

This is not an ordinary watch forum, and the whole community is very different from TimeZone or WatchUSeek, where people are selling genuines. There are lots of variation between the replica models, and buying the good ones really requires a lot of research and knowledge. I have no idea about Hublots, so I don't know who was right or wrong yesterday.

But I have seen some misrepresented items for sale on the RWG, and also watches that have been grossly overpriced. I mean, what should the membership do when they see a "MBW" modern SeaDweller for $700? Watch that's completely OUTDATED... and the new, superior version is available for $250 new from all the dealers. Or some poor bastard who has paid $1100 for a MBW 1680 with RedBigJoe's snake oil treatment? It's only natural that members want to get a reasonable amount of money back from their "investment". It's not necessarily a "scam attempt", just outrageously overpriced watch.

Should everybody just stay quiet, and wait for some gullible poor newbie bastard to step into the trap, and pay a ridiculous amount of money for a watch like that... and then laugh at his stupidity because he didn't know the history of the board, or do enough research?

Difficult question... but like I said, this place is not TimeZone. This is a big grey area marketplace, where more or less shady characters trade counterfeit items. Call it "honor among thieves" if you want, but we are under the impression that the majority of the board thinks it's important that older members protect the new ones. Even from the bad member trades. And our decision between these two bad options (open or closed sales forum) is based on that.

So... the current situtation is that If you feel you can't handle the replies (and possible heat) in the sales forum, you better stay out of the kitchen. There will definitely be unfair comments and thread crapping in the future as well. We try, but we can't always call them out... or step in immediately.

Believe me, we don't make the decisions like this because "we feel like it", we're not any kind of Oracles here. Our decisions just reflect the membership's opinions and feelings. If this turns out to be a bad decision, and the sales forum will degenarate into the Wild West, you can be sure that we'll reconsider it. Nothing is carved in stone here, but unlike the membership we can't just endlessly debate about this... we always have to make some kind of decision. And it will never satisfy everyone.