V Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Well since there is a lot of talk about GPF Mod Dep buckles lately and since I have became an expert in the field I decided to share some of my knowledge with my fellow members. Those buckles are very important in the history of Panerai and it is also I think an interesting read. These are the following types of GPFModDep buckle available (photos are taken from the web + my own): 1) Vintage GPF buckle found on 40's-50's watches on leather straps This is the buckle found on the vintage watches attached on a leather strap. It has a brushed finish. These sell on vintage straps for up to 2000$ but they are extremely difficult to find. 2) Vintage GPF buckles found on Compasses and instruments on nylon straps These are the genuine SANDBLASTED buckles found on compasses and mostly attached on velcros. These normally sell from 1000-1500$ but they are also very difficult to find. This is my latest acquisition and i love it: more photos 3) Strapmasters GPF Here is the controversy.. Strapmasters claim that they took original old compass buckles and they refinished them. A very important collector was involved in the process for more credibility. They are claimed as reps because it seems: 1. the buckles were laser cut because they have round inside corners something that is not obviously correct for even the 70's.. 2. the font is completely different than anything vintage and finally 3. there was NEVER posted a photo of one of those straps attached to either a velcro or vintage strap. plus some other small details as inside measurements etc... They were sold not long ago for 700-800$ each until the controversy pushed the Psti forum owners to forbit the sale of such items. Not very difficult to find. I have two of them... one in 26mm sandblasted and one in 24mm polished. Photos on the original straps: 4) REP - Kevin/Adeeos GPF buckle Not much to say here.. Kevin has replicated (very accurately) the original vintage GPF Mod Dep buckles (Nr 1) and he sells them attached to his Ammo straps for special customers. 5) REP - TC's GPF Mod Dep Again nothing more to say here.. E's has repped the Nr 3 buckles. So probably they are the rep of the reps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Great overview and history lesson. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmg Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 You learn something new everyday, thanks for the great post V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Well, I see no reason for us Vintage Rolex collectors to continue complaining about buckle, end link and bracelet prices. $2k for a buckle and vintage strap???? GOOD LORD! Very informative post! Thank you! T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Well done, V. And thanks for the trip down memory lane...... I wish. :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Thanks guys for the kind words.. I was certain that someone would comment abotu the prices of the buckles. Are they normal? Do they worth it for a small piece of steel? Again in everything else in life price is relevant to rarity and demand. That's why Vintage Panerai watches go for 100.000$+ and if the watch's value is 100K it makes great sense to me the buckle to worth 2K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 A very interesting read Personally, I'm not over keen on them as I don't like how they stand straight out from the buckle (I much prefer the curve of the Pre-V buckles) However, I am curious about the buckle's place in history, as wether I like them or not, historic value is historic value, and more than worthy of any attached price tags Was there a reason for their creation, such as for millitary use only, or was it simply a design the good folks at OP decided to go with on certain models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg1459 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Thanks guys for the kind words.. I was certain that someone would comment abotu the prices of the buckles. Are they normal? Do they worth it for a small piece of steel? Again in everything else in life price is relevant to rarity and demand. That's why Vintage Panerai watches go for 100.000 and if the watch's value is 100K it makes great sense to me the buckle to worth 2K. It should be very easy to replicate these 1:1 sandblasted, correct font depth,thickness. And no one could ever be able to tell difference and could be sold as gen (they dont come with certificate anyway, its just a buckle ) Dangerous and doesnt worth the price imo(unless you got a real vintage panerai watch which fits) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 It should be very easy to replicate these 1:1 sandblasted, correct font depth,thickness. And no one could ever be able to tell difference and could be sold as gen (they dont come with certificate anyway, its just a buckle ) Dangerous and doesnt worth the price imo(unless you got a real vintage panerai watch which fits) V knows his buckles and straps like no other - truth has been written here ...the Gospel of GPF Mod Dep by the Venerable V.!!! They are not very easy to replicate at all - even Kevin's buckles have subtle differences from the gen - replicating 65 years of natural aging beyond question is not that easy- given that the originals were all hand made and stamped - each one tells a different story. They are so rare and records show how many vintage watches were made - any sudden availability of claimed gens would raise alarm bells immediately. Thinking of selling reps as gens is a step down the dark path my friend!!!! That said - a very good "honest" reproduction for $100 max is something I'd love to have in my collection.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Kalimera, Looks great, I noticed Stephan had these for sale also, even brass ones I can imagine you are a happy man V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slai Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I remember getting this special surprise from V one day. One thing I'm not clear on though, is what GPF Mod Dep actually means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Very interesting read - thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJay Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Great report V, thanks for the info. Fantastic straps BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Thanks guys.. Some comments on the replies.. First of all I agree with everything FGD said.. It is definately NOT easy to replicate and it is almost impossible to do it 1:1. Kevin has seen more than 20 genuine buckles (which is amazing if you consider how many they are) and still he was not been able to replicate it so accurately that it would be indistinguishable from the gens. The process of making them as explained by FGD is very old skool PLUS half of century of military use is not so easy to immitate. Also thinking like iceberg's is what hurts our hobby. The worst thing you can do is try to pass a rep as a gen even if it is only a buckle. I think it shouldn't be mentioned not even as a joke @ Slai: GPF stands for Giovanni Panerai Figlio and Mod Dep for Modification Department although I am not at all sure for the 'modification'? @capice: Indeed they are also other people who replicated the GPF but they are so bad it is an insult to even put them here Like for example the atrocity DSN sells with springbar!!! and huge double the size of the gen size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 GPF stands for Giovanni Panerai Figlio and Mod Dep for Modification Department although I am not at all sure for the 'modification'? Could the buckle itself, have been the 'modification', ie it was fitted in replacement of a different style buckle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg1459 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Also thinking like iceberg's is what hurts our hobby. The worst thing you can do is try to pass a rep as a gen even if it is only a buckle. I think it shouldn't be mentioned not even as a joke hey, i didnt mean i would do it but there are plenty of people with that mind, you see scams everyday here and there and that buckle is, easy or hard, possible to replicate 1:1 imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 hey, i didnt mean i would do it but there are plenty of people with that mind, you see scams everyday here and there and that buckle is, easy or hard, possible to replicate 1:1 imo. All I'd say is that in 65 years , it hasn't been done yet ...so maybe the world is full of honest people ??!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDBroucke Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Buckles with engrave GPF Mod Dep start in middle 50er years(after Patent and officially Firma Panerai & Son GPF is G.Panerai Filio,Filio=Son Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 tnx for the info... I was wondering how do you know that one buckle is gen?...this thing is so damn easy to replicate 1:1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 tnx for the info... I was wondering how do you know that one buckle is gen?...this thing is so damn easy to replicate 1:1... Because the way it was made is difficult to be replicated with newer technology laser machines. The original was made in a pantograph (or something like that machine) and the engraving was stamped on and every one was different than the other There are also some other reasons but the point is it hasn't been done properly even if it has been tried in the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hey V, You never replied to my thread on the other forum. I showed some pics of the so called Strapmasters GPF, attached to Big Egiziano's in the collection of Panerai in Italy. So while your list is a great starting point, it is not comprehensive. Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Hey V, You never replied to my thread on the other forum. I showed some pics of the so called Strapmasters GPF, attached to Big Egiziano's in the collection of Panerai in Italy. So while your list is a great starting point, it is not comprehensive. Your thoughts? Really???? Sorry but haven't followed that thread after some point.. I am going to check it now (if I find it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Hey V, You never replied to my thread on the other forum. I showed some pics of the so called Strapmasters GPF, attached to Big Egiziano's in the collection of Panerai in Italy. So while your list is a great starting point, it is not comprehensive. Your thoughts? Here is the photo tootall has posted over at Repgeek and can add more to the controversy that maybe? the Strapmasters GPF buckles WERE indeed genuine? For many months people on Psti were asking for a photo like this doubting the originality and NOONE until now has ever been able to find and post one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 I tryed to go the hand made route and although i made some good usable buckles, I never even got near even finding an engraving font like the original, size and shape is not too bad and they can look old real easy but it would never be a gen. you dont want to see the results of the oil blackening experiment!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old skool Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 So what is the price/availability on the Kevin or TC version of the buckle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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