offshore Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Had a customer this morning, who has a genTudor Oyster (40+ yo) It is working intermittently, and probably requires a service. When I quoted him to do the service ($175) he was not happy with my price, as "another repairer" had quoted him $65! I explained that he would probably only be getting a "splash & dip" for that money, as this type of service was typically done in the $40-$70 price range, and I couldn't possibly do a full tear down, clean, dry, oil, time, etc for that price. His retort was, "then how much for you to do a splash & dip" I explained that I didn't do that work (and have never done one, so wouldn't know how) but it got me to thinking as to whether it was ethical/feasable to do this, especially where people have lower value mechs, which they won't spend ->$200 on. I know I have had a lot of work go to splash & dip servicing guys in the past, and would like to get the thoughts of the forum members as to what stance one would take. On one hand, if I have fully disclosed what would be done, and offer no warranty on the work, what if any failings are there? On the other hand, am I doing myself, and my business a disservice, by putting out "2nd grade" work? I can almost be sure of the thoughts of Ziggy, and have till now adhered to his school of thought, but the feelings of others in the community will be of interest. BTW, the owner took his Tudor "elsewhere" as I wouldn't do what he requested. (And as I have just finished a refurb on an old Elma cleaner....would have been nice to get the teardown to see how the Elma performed... Oh well there must be something in the box needs a service!) Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 This is a tough one for me... I tend to have all watches that I purchase serviced. I have paid nearly as much for a proper servicing as I have for the watch in some cases. Some watches simply are not worth having a $150 service done to them. I am not sure what a "splash and dip" is... but I pay $50-$75 for a simple inspection and adjustment. Now ANYONE who will not spend $150 to service a vintage Tudor does not deserve to own the watch. I applaud you for not bending to his SUB-STANDARDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztech Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 I say stick to your guns. Obviously, doing top notch work and nothing less is your competitive advantage. No need to lower your standards to just do more work. Also, those that know about your skills and attention to detail will, or should, be more than willing to receive the best service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guanaco Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Like carl said, why buy a watch like a Tudor and then avoid paying servicing in that price range? TBH $175 is a steal compared to the $500 a Rolex AD would charge you! You should've told him: "Ok then, just for you, $800!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Agree with all said above. There's something to be said for doing the job right and taking pride in your work. We've all seen the results of the classic 'swish and dip' services that had been done and passed on; certainly not pretty. However, what's even worse is when unscrupulous folks charge unsuspecting customers the cost to do a full service job, yet only perform substandard work (we've seen this before as well). One of the reasons why I only trust Ziggy to service my watches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 For the interest, this guy bought this watch new 40+ years ago. He told me he paid 42 pound ($84) for it! I said, but what were you earning then? "Oh 18 pound ($36) a week!" His mentality was that it still owed him $84, and why spend -> $200 on it! And yes he had got a quote from the AD here..... $450......to start! Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assasi9 Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 what is that watch worth now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 what is that watch worth now? Depends on the model, but if it's something as simple as a 9050, probably $450 - $800 depending on condition, metal type, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedo Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Does this mean you can service ourA7750's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Splash and Dip. I think there was already a thread about this before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 When Rolex introduced the Tudor to the market as a second brand, they made every effort to ensure that it was not perceived as a second rate brand as it was, and is not. Inferior, uncaring service is for third rate watches, and customers, who in the end always end up placing more demands on your time, and lowering others' perception of your business more than they would ever be willing or able compensate you for. Just say no to swish and dip... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 When Rolex introduced the Tudor to the market as a second brand, they made every effort to ensure that it was not perceived as a second rate brand as it was, and is not. Inferior, uncaring service is for third rate watches, and customers, who in the end always end up placing more demands on your time, and lowering others' perception of your business more than they would ever be willing or able compensate you for. Just say no to swish and dip... I have been playing this game a long time and until today NEVER heard this phrase... Monday I am having bumper stickers made that say, "JUST SAY NO TO SWISH AND DIP..."! I wonder if ANYONE would ever know what it meant??? That was CLASSIC Rob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Just say no to swish and dip... My thoughts exactly. It can only bring you bad karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Had a customer this morning, who has a genTudor Oyster (40+ yo) It is working intermittently, and probably requires a service. When I quoted him to do the service ($175) he was not happy with my price, unhappy with 175? shows how experience makes a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natron1 Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 My watchsmith does not like the splash and dip. He prefers to do only the full jobs. Even though percentage and time wise he can make more money with the S&D. THere is a german fellow in town who gives the old splash and tip with a shot of oil here and there . My guy gets all the germans customers when they are not happy. Natron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Back when I was collecting vintage stuff..... I used to buy boxes of old watches for almost nothing...I often took non functional movements and solvent dipped them to see if they would unfreeze ....Some did, some didn't...But you'd be amazed at how much gunk will accumulate in one of those old snap on caseback watches!!...Sometimes the solvent would turn black!!...My procedure with those that would start running, was to then spray them liberally with WD-40, just to check amplitude etc...Then if they appeared salvageable, I'd give them a proper cleaning and oiling...I have several vintage watches in my box that are still running strong 5-7 yrs later, after that treatment... Since the majority of my reps these days contain Asian movements, service isn't even an issue...If the movement "packs up", it's cheaper to simply swap it out for a new one...Oddly, I have maybe 40 watches with Asian movements, and not 1 has had any problems!!...They may look crude, but they keep on ticking!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) Just to play Devil's Advocate for the moment, I can't see anything wrong with providing a service which the client specifically wants. In terms of watchsmithing, obviously it is not 'the full job', but if that's what the client wants, then that's what the client wants... It's not a case of simply providing an unsuspecting person with a lesser job, and passing it off as a full service, but doing something which the client specifically wants. It reminds me of signs I've seen in barber shops, where a shave with the clippers costs X amount, where a shave with a wet razor is a little bit more. Now, no one would argue that a shave with the clippers would be as good as a wet shave, but, it would still be 'a shave', and, if that was all the person had the cash for, or wanted, it would be good enough for them, and they'd be happy with the result. The barber might well think or say "A wet blade will give a closer shave..." but, they'd still do the clipper-shave and take the dollars for it, if that was what their client wanted... I'm normally not one to back the 'customer is king' philosophy, but in a situation like this, I'd view it as someone informed of their choices making a choice and being prepared to pay for it, rather than someone expecting a full service and only getting a swish and dip (which I agree would be wholly unacceptable) Like the barber doing the clipper-shave, I'd've taken the work, and had a little extra 'flash money' that week [Edit to add] Of course, if I were to do something like that, I would make sure the client fully understood that the results would not be as good as if the movement were fully stripped down, so the results would not be as predictable or gauranteeable. I'd then say that if there was a problem, to bring the watch back and do the full service for a discount Edited June 11, 2008 by TeeJay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) And when the well informed cheapskate still has problems with his watch too soon (and anything is too soon for him) he will complain loudly, and forever, to anyone who will listen to stay away from your shop, because you ripped him off, provided crappy service and "ruined his watch." Even if you later give him a proper service later for free. That's why, TeeJay Edited June 11, 2008 by POTR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 And when the well informed cheapskate still has problems with his watch too soon (and anything is too soon for him) he will complain loudly, and forever, to anyone who will listen to stay away from your shop, because you ripped him off, provided crappy service and "ruined his watch." Even if you later give him a proper service later for free. That's why, TeeJay Oh sure, some folks will always behave like that, but I have to admit, if someone is that much of a cheapskate, their friends and family will know that they're a cheapskate, and their claims would probably fall on deaf ears As I said, I was just playing Devil's Advocate, and thinking along the lines of the barber/shave scenario PS Say no to swish and dip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) I simply will NOT do it, ( with antique clocks ) You can be 100% certain that the watch or clock will come back and bite you on the bum. Not worth the hassle. Edited June 11, 2008 by rodwc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubu Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 There is nothing wrong with providing a service and having the extra $. And filling the unused time. The key issue is communication and perceived value. Also market placement. These issues are important in all businesses. Make sure your client/customer/patient understands and receives the the value they perceive .Communication is the key. The business chooses its market placement and the customer chooses to accept this or not. If the client understands and values your service for the agreed upon fee both are in a win-win exchange. A business does not always sell the top of the line, but it should always communicate and service its customers. We are not always buying a gen. If I buy a rep and the dealer gives good service and communicates I will receive value and be happy. It is ironic that we are discussing the ideal on a rep forum. Problems arise on this forum and in business when customer expectations are greater than promised or delivered. As in life, communication and expectations on both sides are the key. Any service can be a win-win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat247 Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 That's funny because I've always thought that Tudors were for people who wanted a Rolex but who wouldn't make the financial commitment to buying one. Now you tell a tale about a Tudor owner who won't make the financial commitment to getting the watch serviced properly. I sense a pattern here. To answer your question, you should start doing splash and dips if that's the path you want to take. If I were you, I'd continue on the path you're already on. Everyone works for money but not everyone is a [censored]. A [censored] works merely for the money and takes no other satisfaction from doing the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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