geo1nah2a Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 1) Is there a solution that could substitute the current Maker-Collector-Client scheme and its performance? Not in theory, practically, with prodigy makers/candidates named. At least as a complimentary provider? 2) IF the current M-C-C chain was broken : would that substitute solution bring prices down, drive quality of service and wares up, and be sustainable in a few months run ? 3) What are the anomalies across the product / price spectrum that are attributable to the current M-C-C and how would that substitute solution repair them? 4) While a lot of people think that the current balance should be represented as m-C-c (with collector as the dominant), I have a feeling that it is more like M-C-c. ex. look at Abay and Silix lately.. 5) Why some people get their watches 3 days after ordering and my non-drop-shipping-tracking# isn't even registered 4 days after paying for it? ( shameless personal plug ) Widening the gap in the market will eventually create a market in the gap. And IMHO RWI's move would have been more effective pre-RG.. It is my understanding that RWI admins decided not to escalate the conflict at that time and this is an expiry of that term. Now, can we get back to something that I relate to more? I am leaving for vacations next Friday, will my order be here on time? ( shameless personal plug 2 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo1nah2a Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Sure, they're going to come right out and admit it. I did always wonder why they were the only "endorsed" forum: doc, this printscreen was different a couple of hours ago.. RWI was removed today.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendofSpeed Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 It was removed yesterday actually.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 So if I order a Breitling Super Ocean from Josh it will not have an ETA Swiss 2836-2 in it as described for $349? IDK I came here to learn about reps and until now everyone has been on board with Joshua at PC-whatever.com. This is really bad if it isnt coming with a real Swiss ETA motor......... Well, the easiest way to know was is really truth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedo Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Just to add a comment to get lost in amongst all the other pages here, seeing how RG handled the issue leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I had started going over there a bit lately, but this just confirms why I had not been visiting much. The censorship, and the members responses over there just illustrate it is not a good place to go. Good luck to bad rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_brian_ Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 As for the RG board I use the same criteria, actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 So if I order a Breitling Super Ocean from Josh it will not have an ETA Swiss 2836-2 in it as described for $349? IDK I came here to learn about reps and until now everyone has been on board with Joshua at PC-whatever.com. This is really bad if it isnt coming with a real Swiss ETA motor......... the only way to know for sure is have to movement looked at by a pro. the copies even have eta stamped on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Figures! Really wish one of you super knowledgible types would check one out to settle it. Josh swears that they are real Swiss ETA movements and yeah its a little nieve to think that he would not tell the truth but for the most part everyone raves about his products the only way to know for sure is have to movement looked at by a pro. the copies even have eta stamped on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windyzz Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 I think its best to keep our comment to ourself, There is NO RIGHT AND WRONG ANSWER, everyone has their own believe, just let the admin deal with it professionally. Otherwise it would result in to much debate, and flame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josevancouver Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) It's one thing to criticize Andrew and Josh but another to start claiming that Josh and Andrew are somehow in 'cahoots' with the admin/owners of RG. RG has been supportive of competitors/dealers outside of Josh/Andrew - ie. TTK (who was banned here). They've also removed dealers like TWP. Don't drag RG into this one. They have a diferent style in how they handle things. For example, any criticism of other boards - (RWG and RWI for example) wouldn't be tolerated over there. Watch how fast the mods jump on stuff like that. If RWI decided to suspend/ban Andrew/Josh, that's an issue for them to decide and they may very well have good reason to. Edited July 27, 2008 by josevancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Oh Yes. You got that right brother. That is the one certain outcome of all of this as we go forward. ... only this time you're paying a little more for it than you should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 doc, this printscreen was different a couple of hours ago.. RWI was removed today.. My bad; I never noticed the RWI icon--I guess the RG logo jumps out more. I guess RG is the place to go if you like your glasses rose-colored. Nice watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars08 Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Wow. You blokes still going at it? About Andrew being the victim of a Conspiracy... I followed the discussion at RWI and he had heaps of chances to put his case. I understand he was contacted be email about his "alleged" activities. Yet in the whole thread all I saw from Andrew were a could of half-baked comments. The he disappeared. Probably too busy selling watches on the internet. It seems to me that he does not care about his "trusted" status at RWI. I assume that's because he does NOT need the forum geeks for his business. Andrew's web site is still there for anyone who wants buy from him. What I don't understand is the number of people in this threat who are doing flips and twists trying to explain away or justify Andrews actions. I mean, the man can't be bothered doing it HIMSELF. Why all the anguish and word gymnastics trying to defend someone who doesn't respect forum members enough to give a serious reply? If people still think he's worth dealing with then go and enjoy. He's open for business as usual. If he's a hard-nosed, cunning, typical businessman as some say he is, then he'll survive this glitch. Clearly he doesn't think that his reputation on these boards will hit him too badly. Why try to convert those of us who don't like the idea of being cheated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 .....It seems to me that he does not care about his "trusted" status at RWI. I assume that's because he does NOT need the forum geeks for his business. I don't know about that. As a member mentioned earlier, try searching Google for "replica watches" or "fake watches" and see how many pages of results you have to go through before you find ANY of the trusted dealers, if they show up at all. Most if not all of their business originates from forum references. If Jandrew is such a big shot and he commissioned these super reps by supplying the gens, why not keep ALL of the factories production of that watch and control prices that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josevancouver Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) Oh, I'm sure Andrew cares. Members on this board and others like RWI and RG are primary customers of his and Josh's. One comment about the price-fixing and everything else. I agree that what has been alleged is ridiculous, but the easiest thing to do is refuse to buy reps that are ridiculously over-priced to begin with. Prices are getting higher and higher and I know full well that material and labour costs do not equal a retail price with a 100% markup. Vote with your wallet. That's the biggest thing that will send a message to ANY dealer or factory that ridiculously high prices will mean less customers and less revenue in the long run. I for one refuse to spend over $350 for a replica watch . It's a replica!! Some of these prices for the Hublot reps and the dollars being spent on them..... I don't know about that. As a member mentioned earlier, try searching Google for "replica watches" or "fake watches" and see how many pages of results you have to go through before you find ANY of the trusted dealers, if they show up at all. Most if not all of their business originates from forum references. If Jandrew is such a big shot and he commissioned these super reps by supplying the gens, why not keep ALL of the factories production of that watch and control prices that way? Edited July 27, 2008 by josevancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars08 Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I don't know about that. As a member mentioned earlier, try searching Google for "replica watches" or "fake watches" and see how many pages of results you have to go through before you find ANY of the trusted dealers... Is there a chance Andrew has other sites that DO come up in Google, or if he makes good money supplying other dealers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 How does a factory not supply certain dealers? I'll tell you. The amount of money the dealers are making off these forums is incredible. These forums make up a huge percentage of their sales. Andrew, being the biggest seller, has the clout to make special deals with the manufacturers. He says to them: in return for blocking certain dealers who don't play by my rules, I will give you a bigger cut of my profits, or I will buy wathces from you at a higher price. Of course, they agree. This causes other dealers to set their prices to what Andrew demans, therefore, causing prices on the rep forums to go through the roof. The point isn't to ban all buyers in china, the point is to control the few that are called "trusted dealers" on the rep watch forum, which number about ten. Since we don't buy from those outside the "trusted dealer" network, the prices become artificially high for all of us. In other words, he is screwing all of us behind our backs. Lanikai, I am disappointed in you. Did you even attempt to read the posts before you posted this garbage? Let me spell it out for you: Andrew has been banned from RWI. Do you know why? It's for the very reasons I have stated. He was strong arming dealers on these forums to raise their prices to a level he found acceptable. If they didn't, he would stop them from getting access to watches. I didn't make this stuff up. This is what he did. I was merely explaining it to people in my own words. Next time, before you start throwing insults, the number of posts you have, and Saturn dealerships, try increasing your reading comprehension. my heart bleeds.... if you read my post it had nothing to do with Andrew or Joshua... so much for your comprehension !! Andrew and Joshua being banned from RWI and the Admin's reasoning is not for me to comment on ... either way.. in other words it is not "my business".. not knowing the full details "first hand" and with more than just reading posts.. I will not formulate any conclusion on "any party" . And whose to call your post a "literary work of high intelligence",.. are you claiming this for yourself ??... you seem to be telling us exactly how things are going down... what you said happened,.. like it's "point of FACT" can you show any insight into how you garnered this brilliant piece of intelligence.. Humint ?? what ?? Do you have any "real Insight" into how Asian "organizations" work..?? the Hierarchy involved.. do you have any "on the job" experience... How does the Top of the food chain work ?? have you seen it in action ?? How do middle lieutenants carry out their orders to protect the Top Man ?? Who do they send as "messengers" the Boss ?? Who put themselves in front of the CEO (to use a corporate term) .. and has a vow of silence ... and "has to" "by" rank take the heat if anything should happen ?? If you can answer these questions with "experienced " hands on knowledge... then you have just jeopardized your "theory" of what "went down" In my post were statements to "try" and get you to "think outside the box" not dwell on .. what "seems" to be the obvious... sorry I failed miserably.. Car dealerships was an "analogy" (get it?) Or would you like me to use more dramatic poses.... The "Cartel" Columbia.. back in the day... was "the Cartel" to coin the phrase.... the dealers were just the middle of the food chain ... and I'm not talking of the street dealers here in the US.. Dealers higher in the food chain carried satellite cell phones before they were inexpensive and widely used.. with a direct link to "the man" ... they moved merchandise... that's all they did.. The upper echelon dealers took their marching orders from whom??? and if they were to expose the men in power what would you think would become of them ??? To expose any "Power" would be to commit suicide.... the "Makers" or 'factories" as you call them.. may ask all the dealers ... get me a XXXXXX that could stand for a limited edition watch.. all dealers are searching for the piece... one will get it .. but all will share in it's sales .. and whom do you think Say's to sell it at a certain price ?? THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!!! You may come across an item someday that was procured outside China for a dealer to give to the maker.. If you were a "factory dealer" and a "secondary dealer" ... bought a new release off of someone... and the "control" told you to talk to him.... about selling under bid... think... think..... although the secondary dealer was giving you a great price .. as the factory would you be happy.. since you are including in "your" price.. exchange for defect... lost Customs .. etc. .. This is a "business" the Makers are running, not the dealers... the dealers move the merchandise .. like any commodity it has parameters...... That is what I was "trying" to illustrate..... I was not "defending" So do not "twist" my words for your so called intelligence... this was to illustrate ... organizational hierarchy practice.. or the "factions" involve in a illicit product... THINK... THINK ... THINK... that's all I was trying to put fourth !!!!!!!!!!!!... in Regards to Andrew .. what's done is done... I am not here to hash and rehash old news... you will think what you think.. but I was attempting to offer "More Food for thought" .. and now I'm trying to "Draw a picture" for your literary Greatness !!! Lani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Oh make no mistake, my post has nothing to do with loyalty at all. Who care's about backdoor anything if you get your watch? Isn't that the end goal? Some of us are not so financially well off that we can casually brush off any extra bank notes being pilfered from our pockets, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I agree that what has been alleged is ridiculous, but the easiest thing to do is refuse to buy reps that are ridiculously over-priced to begin with. Really Ridiculous?!?! Multiple seperate dealer complaints over an extended period of time accusing the same thing, obviously didn't seem to ridiculous to the admin team over at RWI. Anyway, as a board the admins can chose to endorse them or not endorse them... Whether members continue to buy from them really has no bearing on the decision, each person must make that choice for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josevancouver Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 What I am saying, is that I am tired of watching prices getting out of control when I know full well that the markup is astronomical to begin with. Regardless of dealers or whatever, the easiest way to send a 'message' to price-fixing and outrageous prices is to say 'no - I'm not going to pay $1K for a fake Hublot. no - I'm not going to pay some outrageous price that has been artificially set'. Really Ridiculous?!?! Multiple seperate dealer complaints over an extended period of time accusing the same thing, obviously didn't seem to ridiculous to the admin team over at RWI. Anyway, as a board the admins can chose to endorse them or not endorse them... Whether members continue to buy from them really has no bearing on the decision, each person must make that choice for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 What I am saying, is that I am tired of watching prices getting out of control when I know full well that the markup is astronomical to begin with. Regardless of dealers or whatever, the easiest way to send a 'message' to price-fixing and outrageous prices is to say 'no - I'm not going to pay $1K for a fake Hublot. no - I'm not going to pay some outrageous price that has been artificially set'. Sorry mis-interpreted your response... I'm right there with you, no reps for me over $350, but there are dealers outside J&A that can get the super reps and at a price 25% less. There are at least a few people on this board that are not paying cartel prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc savage Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Is there a chance Andrew has other sites that DO come up in Google, or if he makes good money supplying other dealers? Sure there is. There is also a chance that he's a majority shareholder in the Swatch group and is artificially inflating Swiss watch prices to create increased demand for reps. Seriously though, if he wasn't such a little fish he could have tried to inflate the wholesale cost of the watch, not the retail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawo Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Lets take a guess to see how many pages this thread is going to go on for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the osteopath Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Of course I would never defend 'price fixing'- however, it is a fact of life in any business involving merchandise- the manufactures always dictate the highest and lowest prices, and the sellers are always held to a certain level of sales. All of the items we purchase through our associations on this board all come from a very limited number of actual manufacturers, in spite of claims that 'my copy is special because it is lubricated with REAL goat semen-' or other ridiculous claim. As such, if one dealer were to suddenly begin to drastically undersell others, it would hurt the business of the others, ultimately driving some out of the business (and lets face it, we are not an easy lot- anybody heard from Eddie lately??) I have been a customer of Andrews for some time, and have been very happy with the transactions. I accept the price fixing which happens as a natural consequence of the business. In a grey/black market endeavor such as this, that we are offered any level of customer service is a miracle, and if the prices are a little higher- so be it. You can throw them off the board, but there is nothing new about this type of practice, and it will continue whether they are on RWI or not- and still get plenty of business. -O BTW- Andrew fixed my ROO in 5 days without a hitch. Try getting that from an AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) BTW- Andrew fixed my ROO in 5 days without a hitch. Try getting that from an AD. That's funny the watch that was in the center of this last incident was the ROO. Other dealers price was $65 cheaper... Other dealer has a few years history, but I don't think he has Josh/Andrew volume so I expect he pays more for the same watch, how can he afford to have it so much cheaper?!?! Edited July 27, 2008 by supermanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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