Why RWI has removed Josh and Andrew as dealers

[supermanx]

I rest my case

But Jot, thats what makes this place and RWI great, you can have a differance of opinion then slay... and you wont get banned here (nor would you get banned at rwi) because slay has 10x as many posts as you.

You don't have to have the same views, just understand that these forums stay active by participation and you might find the admins of any forum, watch related or otherwise, are always concerned with the feelings of their most active members. You can't please everyone, that is fact.

[Pugwash]

Also, I'd like to address the issue of "serviced" and "waterproofed" watches from J&A. This has been proven many times over the years to be nothing more than a scam, yet I still see members falling for it all the time. Shame on all boards for allowing that scam to continue.

Yup, when Trusty was pulled up on that on RG, he basically said it was the guy he was paying to do the job that was ripping him off.

"I HATE PUGWASH [...]" - Trustytime

Another for my sig?

I was right, though. He may know much more than I'll ever know about the industry, unsurprisingly, but that doesn't change the fact he lied to us repeatedly.

"They have no idea how the makers in China respect the both of us.." - Trusty

This gels perfectly with their "But I'm just one dealer. What power do I have?" stance.

[jot9011]

But Jot, thats what makes this place and RWI great, you can have a differance of opinion then slay... and you wont get banned here (nor would you get banned at rwi) because slay has 10x as many posts as you.

You don't have to have the same views, just understand that these forums stay active by participation and you might find the admins of any forum, watch related or otherwise, are always concerned with the feelings of their most active members. You can't please everyone, that is fact.

Agreed

[P4GTR]

1. I HATE PUGWASH

Not even #2, but #1!

You know.. When I told Josh I was P4GTR from RWG I thought that was going to be a good thing for me!

[andreww]

@ Lan - I agree with you mate, I think the factories hold all the power. In fact they could cut J&A off just as easily as anyone. As to whether its the dealers who purchase the gens for replication, I have to wonder if its not the factories that do it, and not the dealers at all. I asked Josh not long ago to get a picture of his rep next to the gen Skyland he used to replicate it. His response was that "the gen was still in pieces". I'm no watchsmith, but I could put a watch back together in a few hours. Not damning evidence, but given J&As past record of lying, I really don't believe anything they say.

Also, I'd like to add that J&As suspension at RWI probably will have little effect on them. In fact, neither of the has posted there for about a half a year. Also, neither of them post much here either. I have a strong feeling that they have a lot more to do with RepGeek than most of us realize, and that they have decided to focus their efforts there, as they can effectively control what is said about them.

[perry563]

Stop me if I am wrong but.....is it not true that Josh and Andrew were having problems in another forum several years ago and WHAM like overnight REPGEEK popped into existance? I got the impression at that time that they were both responcible for creating that board...or at least that was the impression I had.

[supermanx]

Also, I'd like to add that J&As suspension at RWI probably will have little effect on them. In fact, neither of the has posted there for about a half a year. Also, neither of them post much here either. I have a strong feeling that they have a lot more to do with RepGeek than most of us realize, and that they have decided to focus their efforts there, as they can effectively control what is said about them.

You may be right about the impact, but that should not an excuse to do nothing... As for RG, I would agree with you but that is the choice of the administration team over there if thats how they want to run their site.

[Jawo]

I also agree about their association with Repgeek. They are the most favored dealers there by far despite any implications or problems. A&J are continually active in posts there as well. I am not even sure if they even care about their suspension at RWI. It is a little setback to them but no big deal. I know that you have always stood by A&J Andrew, as did I. But like you, there is a fine line to proper business accumen when dealing with customers. I will not even post some of the comments Trusty has sent be because I don't want to create a slander war, but they are less than proper. Ever since the "little white lies" thread, their reputation is worstening. I am just waiting for them to respond, because this is obviously concerning to members on all forums. I am not saying I will never buy from them again but It is good that we have other choices.

@ Lan - I agree with you mate, I think the factories hold all the power. In fact they could cut J&A off just as easily as anyone. As to whether its the dealers who purchase the gens for replication, I have to wonder if its not the factories that do it, and not the dealers at all. I asked Josh not long ago to get a picture of his rep next to the gen Skyland he used to replicate it. His response was that "the gen was still in pieces". I'm no watchsmith, but I could put a watch back together in a few hours. Not damning evidence, but given J&As past record of lying, I really don't believe anything they say.

Also, I'd like to add that J&As suspension at RWI probably will have little effect on them. In fact, neither of the has posted there for about a half a year. Also, neither of them post much here either. I have a strong feeling that they have a lot more to do with RepGeek than most of us realize, and that they have decided to focus their efforts there, as they can effectively control what is said about them.

[jake48]

Considering Josh a friend is a bit like thinking that stripper in front of you actually likes you.

I have heard from many reliable sources close to those guys that we are a source of income to them and they do not speak to highly of people on the forums.

Ah.... The old I heard from someone... (reliable of course)

Chad- My "friend" you are absolutely one clueless person. You don't know me and you clearly don't know Josh. One of the reasons Joshua has been a good friend to me over the years is the things we discuss, both personal and business, never make it on to the open board - but if you had been around 1/10 the time I have, you might have figured that one out for yourself before you posted such an ignorant statement. Sorry Bro - stay around for a while and you might be able to figure it out for yourself instead of the old "I heard from many reliable sources".

I have a strong feeling that they have a lot more to do with RepGeek than most of us realize, and that they have decided to focus their efforts there, as they can effectively control what is said about them.

Very astute observation...

More than most will EVER know...

Edited July 26, 2008 by jake48

[doc savage]

That's crazy, but it makes sense. They had some really lame reasons for deleting the threads about RWI.

Reminds me of that ridiculous "forum" owned by globalreplicas, where all the posts have to be approved first by their censors.

[hk45ca]

I put the topic back on RepGeek, hope to hear why it was removed....

Personally I have found Andrew to be one of the better dealers, great service,quick and prompt communication,delivering what was promised, minor issues are being solved(damaged dial and lugscrews)

Trusted....yeah I think so....keeping his word, delivering as discussed....

I would like to see evidence of this...If true i understand the step RWI took...and I feel sorry for us all

As you all know every dealers pays a fee to be permitted to do business on the forum.

It's a game like all business, we as buyers want to get the lowest prices, the dealers want the most what they can get....

Look at the oilcompanies, energycompanies,carmanufacturers, every business is looking for the most profit, any way they can get that is granted...

i would like to take this opportunity to say no dealer pays rwi a fee for having a section there. their sections are provided to them from rwi for free as a service to our membership.

[Richard Tracy]

Anyway, I will say that banning them was pointless as it won't hurt their business and from another angle it may do more harm than good for many of you who don't buy from them. One thing that never really got discussed was their motivation related to the so called price fixing and exclusivity. Most all of the best replicas made today are born out of the 1:1 projects which are the brainchild of Josh and Andrew. The GMTIIc is a great example. They purchase a genuine watch and make a deal with a factory to have a stake in the project. The factory also knows that they are the highest volume dealers so it is a marriage made in heaven. At the end of the day it is all about whether he factory is covering the huge equipment costs place up front which is required to make these creations. We are talking about dozens of half million dollar CNC machines here guys and the costs are astronomical. If they can demonstrate the abilty to partner up with them on the watch and move the majority of a 1000 piece run wholesale it is game over. .02

As usual The point is being faded by misguided loyalty, I say misguided because our loyalties should be to the majority, the community, the people, after all these boards are for the benefit of the membership, not the profiteers.

As to the main point, the problem is not with price, but with backdoor maneuvers, and dishonesty, and if this were the first time, I would say give them the benefit of the doubt, but is isn

[TeeJay]

I'd like to be able to say I'm shocked, surprized and appalled by this, but I can't. Well, I'm appalled that such harrassment would be undertaken, but as for shocked and surprized... I hate to say it, but, I told you so...

[Pugwash]

I have a strong feeling that they have a lot more to do with RepGeek than most of us realize, and that they have decided to focus their efforts there, as they can effectively control what is said about them.

Has anyone asked anyone at RepGeek if this is true? I mean it's one thing to have a strong feeling and it's another to outright accuse.

[andreww]

I also agree about their association with Repgeek. They are the most favored dealers there by far despite any implications or problems. A&J are continually active in posts there as well.

I know that you have always stood by A&J Andrew, as did I.

I believe that there likely is some kind of ownership or agreement at RepGeek. No proof, just a gut feeling.

Never really stood by them. Dealers are all snakes IMO, some more venomous than others, but they all have good and bad points. I'll give J&A props for what they do best, but I'll never defend lying and cheating.

[TeeJay]

Has anyone asked anyone at RepGeek if this is true? I mean it's one thing to have a strong feeling and it's another to outright accuse.

It'd be interesting to know. I'm sure I remember reading that anyone who dared to criticise Jandrew there would get a serious flaming, or rather, the e-equivelent of an ordered 'punishment beating'.

[b16a2]

Has anyone asked anyone at RepGeek if this is true? I mean it's one thing to have a strong feeling and it's another to outright accuse.

I have spoken to the admin there, they categorically stated that the board was PERSONALLY financed by the admin team, and that Joshua and Andrew DO NOT pay any money for their sections.

In the same conversation it became very apparent to me that the admin over their are protective of the community, and if they genuinely felt that J/A represented a threat to it, they would be gone.

Speculation on the origins and running of RG should be left to lie. Speculation can end in people becoming confused between what actually occurs and what people believe occurs.

[Pugwash]

It'd be interesting to know. I'm sure I remember reading that anyone who dared to criticise Jandrew there would get a serious flaming, or rather, the e-equivelent of an ordered 'punishment beating'.

This mostly stems from one over-zealous member, not any of the admins.

[TeeJay]

This mostly stems from one over-zealous member, not any of the admins.

Ahh, fair enough. I admit, I don't post there often, although I can't put my finger on a specific reason, it just doesn't appeal to me as much as this forum does.

[chad]

Thanks for the insults.... very nice.

I have friends myself who consider those guys friends and have had personal experiences as I described. Guess I was clueless for believing what they said.

I am not insulting you.

I also think josh and andrew for the most part do great business here. They are fair and reliable.

P.S.

I have been a member here 3 days longer than you....so there!!!

P.S.S

I have twice as many posts as you also.....haha

Anyway like I said, no hard feelings and I am sorry if I insulted you personally. That was not what I intended.

Ah.... The old I heard from someone... (reliable of course)

Chad- My "friend" you are absolutely one clueless person. You don't know me and you clearly don't know Josh. One of the reasons Joshua has been a good friend to me over the years is the things we discuss, both personal and business, never make it on to the open board - but if you had been around 1/10 the time I have, you might have figured that one out for yourself before you posted such an ignorant statement. Sorry Bro - stay around for a while and you might be able to figure it out for yourself instead of the old "I heard from many reliable sources".

Very astute observation...

More than most will EVER know...

[emuozz]

Well, the easiest way to know was is really truth it

[RobbieG]

Oh make no mistake, my post has nothing to do with loyalty at all. Who care's about backdoor anything if you get your watch? Isn't that the end goal? It isn't our backdoor by the way, and nothing will change ever change that. My post was just pointing out what IS happening, not what my opinion was about Josh or Andrew. I would say the same things if it were any other dealer I swear on my eyes. I'm really just saying that they are unique in that they are the two dealers who are more than dealers and are tied to the manufacturer and as such have the most juice. The watch is their project - they make the rules. That simple. And why not? Should dealers who DIDN'T pay to bring you the best reps on the planet reap the same rewards because some pikers on a replica forum kick and scream if a watch goes up by a hundred bucks? They bought the juice like all businesses have to and now that they have it they are recouping their investment as they see fit. Somebody has to pay and others shouldn't get a free ride. There will be more too. There are watches in the pipe right now that will be exclusive to them unless others pay for the priveledge. Even in illegal business competition isn't free. You want in - you PAY and suck it up. And yes, it IS gangster [censored]. All business is - at least any that survive. The whole industry is controlled by the mafia which we all know as well. So let's see, those smaller dealers are sqeaky clean and have no part in the evil side of that biz? Yeah right. There is no morality carwash here guys. Fresh out of soap. And again, it is just a cheap ass knockoff watch. The notion of trying to figure out the who, what, where, and how from several continents away is absurd. Somebody has to win and somebody has to lose. Big business is brutal. Oh and our loyalties are to ourselves let's be honest. If the prices were going down nobody would give a crap about the players or their infighting. Just like the crude issue. Being a trader these things are particularly important to me of course but the issue is the same. Prices go up and the "majority" as you say, call for bans on large speculators. Just crush the entire free market without a second thought. Off with their heads. And why - because it is right or grounded in any truth at all? Nope. Cause' it cost people a hundred bucks to fill up their gas tank and they don't like it. That is the problem in the world today - particularly in America IMO. Everyone loves the free market when it makes them money and they pontificate about it until your ears hurt, but then if a fu*k*ng pizza goes up by two dollars they all become temporary armchair socialists. Dominos has unfair competition because they cornered fu*ki&ng cheese or something with child labor. Meanwhile it is just that Pizza Hut is [censored] that they didn't cop the same money. Same issue here. It's all about bucks and it is half of what we all hear day in and day out and it is terminally boring. So like I said, withour RWI those two will be bigger than ever and there will be new exclusives and then the same endless morality debate circle will start again and in the end, people will want the latest greatest and the money will flow to the party that fronted the cash to make it possible whether it is Josh or Andy or someone else and as that happens the little guy will get squashed again. Zero sum game. Somebody wins, somebody loses, but in the end you all will get your watch...

As usual The point is being faded by misguided loyalty, I say misguided because our loyalties should be to the majority, the community, the people, after all these boards are for the benefit of the membership, not the profiteers.

As to the main point, the problem is not with price, but with backdoor maneuvers, and dishonesty, and if this were the first time, I would say give them the benefit of the doubt, but is isn

Edited July 26, 2008 by RobbieG

[Pugwash]

Zero sum game. Somebody wins, somebody loses, but in the end you all will get your watch...

... only this time you're paying a little more for it than you should.

[doc savage]

Has anyone asked anyone at RepGeek if this is true? I mean it's one thing to have a strong feeling and it's another to outright accuse.

Sure, they're going to come right out and admit it. I did always wonder why they were the only "endorsed" forum:

I have spoken to the admin there, they categorically stated that the board was PERSONALLY financed by the admin team, and that Joshua and Andrew DO NOT pay any money for their sections.

In the same conversation it became very apparent to me that the admin over their are protective of the community, and if they genuinely felt that J/A represented a threat to it, they would be gone.

Speculation on the origins and running of RG should be left to lie. Speculation can end in people becoming confused between what actually occurs and what people believe occurs.

Is that you Jos? Kidding aside, you can't really mean to say that we shouldn't speculate about something because that might confuse the unwashed masses.

[client9]

I am not posting in defense nor commenting on the RWI synopsis ... but c9 you have come to this froum 3 months ago that not being the point .. but you post such ludicris statements .. like everyone is dealing in back street alley's

you're testamony is not based on a single "shred" of evidence or "Proof" ... but your... "I'll tell you". line is ignorant to the point of being comical..

Is this just so you can join the mix ??

Go ahead and buy outside all the forums dealers and see how far you get with decent reps ... How many reps of awaited genuines have you purchased?

if you have been buying for a year or 2 .. that time frame would give you a good idea of how things operate... how many parts have you sourced from dealers ?? another gauge into the rep business world

"factory dealers" are those whom commission the factories or "maker" to replicate a genuine piece .... the dealers that procure the rep has done so from his own pocket .... the maker disassembles the genuine,.. for replication..

The factory or Maker that is commissioned has a quota for the dealers to sell .. and the Factory makers set the price..

ever been into a Staturn Car Dealership.... there is no Bartering.. no one dealer can give you a better price than what you see on the tag at your first stop.. the prices are set across the board .. the same at every dealership .. they could vary on where you live.. to adjust for fishing..

The Saturn Car Dealers are under the factories say so....

a Dealer that breaks the ranks has to answer to someone....

What if the Factory set a price and you were not following directions... would they send a factory representative??? of course they would.. this factory representative may be the one that bought the genuine for the factory

What amazes me is VERY VERY FEW MEMBERS SEE that the dealers are not the ultimate power here.. they are more like factory reps.

The MAKERS (factories) HOLD THE POWER .. they tell the dealers how many have to be sold if they replicate a genuine..

You are giving way too much credit to the dealers .... and not enough to the makers ....

This was all side bars and not about J&A .. but think of GZ as you would Detroit and the dealers as you would your local Chevy or Ford dealerships...

The factory - Makers are the modern WarLords fo China .. not the dealers,.....the dealers are the conduit from the makers..

Lanikai, I am disappointed in you. Did you even attempt to read the posts before you posted this garbage?

Let me spell it out for you: Andrew has been banned from RWI. Do you know why? It's for the very reasons I have stated. He was strong arming dealers on these forums to raise their prices to a level he found acceptable. If they didn't, he would stop them from getting access to watches. I didn't make this stuff up. This is what he did. I was merely explaining it to people in my own words.

Next time, before you start throwing insults, the number of posts you have, and Saturn dealerships, try increasing your reading comprehension.

Edited July 26, 2008 by client9