Watchman Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Maybe it is irrelevant but since we are dealing in contraband keeping verifiable details of dealers or modders on file anywhere might be a one stop shop for law enforcement agencies, or am I being paranoid ? No, but a landline phone number, taken from a communication's provider's bill, and a clear photocopy of official government ID would, or rather, if submitted to Admin, would be at least some reassurance. I don't think dealers/modders should have to go posting their PI on their sales sections, but, if such information were passed onto Admin as part of the application process to have a sales section, it would at least be a step in the right direction, and certainly would be useful for situations like this, or TWP's vanishing act, or when group buys go south. Now, I know forum admins don't want to be seen as endorsing any vender, but, having verifiable ID for a vendor 'on file', would certainly be useful should things go south, as, if it is then serious enough that admins need to step in on member's behalf, at least they are going to be able to do so in a way other than simply emailing the known email. Admins might not want to have to take this kind of intermediary stance, but, as it is their forums being used by vendors and modders, it is only reasonable that they have some manner of, if not 'authority', per se, verifiable ID which could be used to contact someone should the need arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Maybe it is irrelevant but since we are dealing in contraband keeping verifiable details of dealers or modders on file anywhere might be a one stop shop for law enforcement agencies, or am I being paranoid ? While the dealers are selling contraband, people offering modification services are not, they are simply offering their modification services. Also, it would not be a one stop shop for law enforcement, because the information would not be publicly available, but held by administrators privately, and, all the time a person is only offering an aftermarket service (such as AR coating a crystal) there is no reason for law enforcement agencies to require that information, as no illegal activity would be taking place... [Edit to add] After all, it's only a suggestion. It does not have to become policy if admins feel it would be a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I know your intentions are good TJ, but its just too easy to get around that system. By the end of the day I could scan my phone bill and doctor the numbers to show my cell number. If you want a drivers license, thats easy too. Do you honestly think that Josh, Andrew, Jay or Paul are going to give the Admin their personal info? Not likely. My proposal would be a more financial based plan. Say the modder has to pay $100 per month for the right to do business here. Now, that is not a fee really, and the money would simply be held in trust until the modder decided to "retire". At that point, an announcement would be made, and after a specified period the modder would recieve the entire amount via paypal. The longer a vendor participates, the less likely he is to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I know your intentions are good TJ, but its just too easy to get around that system. By the end of the day I could scan my phone bill and doctor the numbers to show my cell number. If you want a drivers license, thats easy too. Do you honestly think that Josh, Andrew, Jay or Paul are going to give the Admin their personal info? Not likely. My proposal would be a more financial based plan. Say the modder has to pay $100 per month for the right to do business here. Now, that is not a fee really, and the money would simply be held in trust until the modder decided to "retire". At that point, an announcement would be made, and after a specified period the modder would recieve the entire amount via paypal. The longer a vendor participates, the less likely he is to walk away. Again, maybe for dealers, it might be a somewhat naive theory, but for people offering modification services, I honestly can't see why it shouldn't work. Afterall, they are simply providing a legal aftermarket service, and people who are honest in their intentions, would have nothing to fear with giving Admin contact information which is slightly more 'concrete' than info on a sign up form. I do like your proposal of their payments being 'held on account', rather than say being used as a direct funding for the hosting fees, as, should a situation like this arise, anything held on account could always be divided up amongst those with an issue and distributed equally (maybe not so fair on others who are in for more money, but, it would be the only fair way of ensuring everyone got something towards their loss) On a less serious note: If you want a drivers license, thats easy too. Yes please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 No, but a landline phone number, taken from a communication's provider's bill, and a clear photocopy of official government ID would, or rather, if submitted to Admin, would be at least some reassurance. I don't think dealers/modders should have to go posting their PI on their sales sections, but, if such information were passed onto Admin as part of the application process to have a sales section, it would at least be a step in the right direction, and certainly would be useful for situations like this, or TWP's vanishing act, or when group buys go south. Now, I know forum admins don't want to be seen as endorsing any vender, but, having verifiable ID for a vendor 'on file', would certainly be useful should things go south, as, if it is then serious enough that admins need to step in on member's behalf, at least they are going to be able to do so in a way other than simply emailing the known email. Admins might not want to have to take this kind of intermediary stance, but, as it is their forums being used by vendors and modders, it is only reasonable that they have some manner of, if not 'authority', per se, verifiable ID which could be used to contact someone should the need arise. If a landline and verifiable ID is what you require to trust someone, then you can request this info from the person with whom you wish to do business and proceed accordingly. People need to learn that the Admins are simply not going to be able to protect them against their own decisions to engage in potentially risky transactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 On a less serious note: Yes please You'd only be allowed to use it in the "great white north" my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 You'd only be allowed to use it in the "great white north" my friend I'm not sure what country that relates to, but it'd be better than nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Chief is right, but we have to learn from our mistakes... TWP, LWA, K2222, RBJ What do they have in common? Thats right people, don't trust modders that are identified only by initials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I'm not sure what country that relates to, but it'd be better than nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 If a landline and verifiable ID is what you require to trust someone, then you can request this info from the person with whom you wish to do business and proceed accordingly. People need to learn that the Admins are simply not going to be able to protect them against their own decisions to engage potentially risky transactions. That's a fair enough point, yes, I guess someone could request it personally. I was just thinking of in terms of when admins make efforts to contact a dealer/modder on the behalf of people with outstanding orders, it might be beneficial to them [admins] to have relatively concrete contact information to fall back on, should emails go unanswered. *shrug* I just hope that somehow lessons can be gained which might offer a modicum of protection (or at least better contact) in the future. As with everything in this hobby, ultimately, I guess it is a case of 'buyer beware...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 That'd be good enough for me, I have relatives in Toronto and enjoy Molson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Chief is right, but we have to learn from our mistakes... TWP, LWA, K2222, RBJ What do they have in common? Thats right people, don't trust modders that are identified only by initials And strangely enough, it seems to be modders that these unfortunate incidents occur with, rather than actual dealers... Not saying that that's saying anything against modders, it's just a weird coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplehd Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Unfortunately, there are 1 major point that I see coming out of this: You simply cannot protect yourself 100% from being scammed. Be it from this hobby or any hobby, eBay, craigslist, etc. or anything in life, its simply impossible to be immune from being scammed atleast once in one's life. No one likes to be scammed ( I was scammed last year around this time from a member on RWI - he sold me and chickenchunkie the same MBW, took our money, and never shipped out a watch). As for speaking out, yes, many members are fearful of the retaliation from other members if they speak out. Maybe this is a good time to come up with some new guidelines on how a member or members can speak up against modders, dealers or other member dealings without being fearful? Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Well, TWP and LWA actually started as dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplehd Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Also, I dont understand, why certain members from the States or Canada would send their watches and/or crystals around the world when you have someone right here in the States who is always on the board, well-known and established and is usually on the board on a daily basis. I realize that it would be alot easier for members in EU to send to Jakub since its closer than sending it to Cheif, but just curious why NA members didnt go to Chief? Not trying to stir the pot or anything, just curious - that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Unfortunately, there are 1 major point that I see coming out of this: You simply cannot protect yourself 100% from being scammed. Be it from this hobby or any hobby, eBay, craigslist, etc. or anything in life, its simply impossible to be immune from being scammed atleast once in one's life. No one likes to be scammed ( I was scammed last year around this time from a member on RWI - he sold me and chickenchunkie the same MBW, took our money, and never shipped out a watch). As for speaking out, yes, many members are fearful of the retaliation from other members if they speak out. Maybe this is a good time to come up with some new guidelines on how a member or members can speak up against modders, dealers or other member dealings without being fearful? Just my two cents. Funny enough triplehd, I see a lot of the blame going to people like ourselves who do not speak up when there is some kind of dispute. When a member does speak up about a dispute with a dealer or modder, it is funny how absent the senior members are from the conversation. The complainant usually ends up taking abuse and there is no one to stand up for him. I will at least try and offer a cool head, and a "lets get the facts together" before anybody is crucified, but I wish there were more of us willing to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Also, I dont understand, why certain members from the States or Canada would send their watches and/or crystals around the world when you have someone right here in the States who is always on the board, well-known and established and is usually on the board on a daily basis. I realize that it would be alot easier for members in EU to send to Jakub since its closer than sending it to Cheif, but just curious why NA members didnt go to Chief? Not trying to stir the pot or anything, just curious - that's all. I believe that was because Chief didn't offer de-casing and crystal removal/installation until recently. If you couldn't do it yourself, Jakub was an easier option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplehd Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I will at least try and offer a cool head, and a "lets get the facts together" before anybody is crucified, but I wish there were more of us willing to do it. Agreed. We have seen it many times when someone has a flawed transaction, the first couple of posts are: 1 - "Did you contact the modder/dealer/member before making this post?" 2 - "I never had an issue with that modder/dealer/member" 3 - "Contact that modder/dealer/member - they'll make it right." And so on...... I think from now on, as Andreww mentioned above, lets have cooler heads and get all the facts together before crucifying a member with a complaint. Lesson learn - that one complaint can save MANY members from having the same results sadly, as with this issue with Jakub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Also, I dont understand, why certain members from the States or Canada would send their watches and/or crystals around the world when you have someone right here in the States who is always on the board, well-known and established and is usually on the board on a daily basis. I realize that it would be alot easier for members in EU to send to Jakub since its closer than sending it to Cheif, but just curious why NA members didnt go to Chief? Not trying to stir the pot or anything, just curious - that's all. For what it's worth, if I had definitely wanted something ARd (such as the crystal to my 104, which really does need it done) I would not have considered sending it to anyone other than Chieftang, because of his reputation for excellence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 @all Couple of questions: - I have one modder I would love to complain about but I'm the only one willing to: should I do so? (I was so happy when the watch arrived ...and it took months to realise it was a piece of shit that I had to have fix and rebuild with a friend of mine here) - Ziggy posted several times about "bad work" done by guys like RBJ or FF ...did anybody listen ? (No I send one of my watch to FF and when I got it back it was in such a state that it needed a total fixing by another friend of RWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 IS THIS DISCUSSION STILL ABOUT THE TOPIC 'IS JAKUB AWAY' OR SHOULD WE START ANOTHER THREAD??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Stephane, a couple of 'from the heart' answers to you questions... - I have one modder I would love to complain about but I'm the only one willing to: should I do so? Absolutely. 'Complain' might be too strong a word, but, if there is an issue with someone's work, it is only fair that everyone in the community knows about it, so they can use that as a deciding factor on if they might wish to contact that person with a commission in the future.... - Ziggy posted several times about "bad work" done by guys like RBJ or FF ...did anybody listen ? With the greatest of respect to Ziggy and his unquestionable skills, it is no secret that he is very 'selective' about the projects he takes on, and the people he chooses to take on work from. While that is absolutely his right to do, others might find his candor off-putting, and might want to find another smith to work on rather than approach him and be rejected, so that would indeed answer your question as to why folks might not have listened... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 @ Stephane - Unlike having issues with a dealer, where fault requires all the evidence to make a clear decision, what a modder does is easily judged with a picture. I'd never suggest holding back info, especially if you have attempted to resolve a situation with the modder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 .... it is no secret that he is very 'selective' about the projects he takes on, and the people he chooses to take on work from. While that is absolutely his right to do, others might find his candor off-putting, and might want to find another smith to work on rather than approach him and be rejected, so that would indeed answer your question as to why folks might not have listened... Absolutely right. I am one of them .... trying to find another watchsmith. ....and it is not bother me that he doesn't want to take any work from me ..it's on his rights ......but it does bother me that he doesn't reply any mails. I find this ..lets say, not very polite. Any way, back to Jakub. Still no news from this guy ???? This case somehow it reminds me the RWG I watch and Blade case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis123 Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 OK, Just to round it all up... We're all waiting for a sign from Jacub Jablonsky here... who has given us an adress to send our watches or crystals to. We also filled out some kind of form with our home adress (to return the watch to) . Some people (members or "friends" of members..) who have met him say that this (collecting) adress is not the place where he lives. Another (polish) member has called his landline number and got in contact with his .. "mother" ? Member promised to call again after a few days.., no reply anymore... Someone else says he's talked to Jacub Jablonsky and found out he has some serious problems "that would not go away for some time"... (but did'nt mention the kind of troubles..).... Recently he replied to some members mentioning that he will send things back, but did anyone replied that things have indeed been send back ? . If i'm not mistaken, one gen and some crystals should have been sent back ?.. , but this has not been documented any further... nothing else... Very confusing and.. indeed ... no further reply's, everyone just waiting... ("buying time" ??). All this "mist" and "mystery".. leads me to some (hopefully wrong) "suppositions": 1) This is a super scam with one or more than one person involved. If that's the case, the watch or crystal is even of lesser interest, the worrying fact is that he (they) are in possession of all our home or business adresses. All my watches are kept in a bank safe, but that might not be the case with everyone.... 2) Mr. Jablonsky is an honest guy but got caught by the law (because of receiving and sending an amount of reps) , got an interdiction to communicate with anyone involved with reps (and thus also this forum) for the time being.. and they monitor all email correspondence (that's usual police practice) and he keeps to it... (which would eventually explain why only a gen could have been sent back to its owner) 3) Mr Jablonsky really [censored]ed things up and hides just because he cannot re-imburse for the losses.... 4) Mr Jablonsky got into deep depression and lost all interest... The only thing i can hope for is that we can forget about supposition 1, but as time passes.... Any thoughts (or good/bad news ) ? Best regards, Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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