RWG Technical Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 We got in last night, and made it home safe and sound. Some delays and hickups along the way, but that's expected. Still feeling jet lagged today, and of course with the 5 hour time difference, I was wide awake at 3 am this morning. The trip was great, we had a really good time, drove a total of 3800 km over the 21 odd days we were on the road. Visited and drove around a fair amount of France, and really enjoyed our time in the southern area's, around the Dordogne river region, Bergerac, Montbazillac, Poitiers etc...very warm in the high 20's during our week there. It rained a total of 3 days during our 22 days of vacation, and those days we were moving from one area to the next, so the weather cooperated very well. It's mostly a blur for me, driving takes so much concentration with the camper, width and height restrictions are always a concern. Jennifer remembers each place we visited, I took notes at the end of each day so I can remember. Living in the camper is not for the faint of heart, or nose...especially when you have to empty the honey wagon every day or two. Lets just say travel always tends to mess up the internal plumbing, so bring along a radio you can turn up to allow for "privacy" when needed. Having about 5 square feet of floor space over the three weeks brought us closer together, and we didn't kill each other, so I guess that's a good sign. Don't turn around too fast in the shower or you'll meet yourself, it was so tiny that I couldn't bend over to wash my feet, you don't appreciate the simplicity of a nice long hot shower until you have to wash up in an area smaller than most closets. Of course no trip for me would be complete if I didn't stop and have some interesting discussions and visits with various watchmakers. I also visited a WOSTEP certified school that I had contacted concerning admission as a student. I only found one watchmaker who seemed to be quite successful at his trade, but he spent 80% of his time fixing and restoring clocks, not watches. Professionally trained in Switzerland, he seemed to be very knowledgeable, even recognized my Pam 196. He was quick to show me a recent purchase, of two fairly large boxes of Breitling stock, everything from cases and bezels and rings, to movements, dials etc. He wasn't a dealer for anyone, and Breitling doesn't sell outside of the AD's, so this find was really exceptional. I spent the better part of an hour visiting and talking shop, my goals of course on each of these visits was to try and judge the demand, compensation, and work scope that exists in France for watchmakers. And since French is my mother tongue, and I went to school only in French, communicating was easy. The other watchmakers I spoke with did few if any watches, one fellow had a window full of beautiful pocket watches he had restored, been there for years in the window, gathering nothing but dust, I was the first person in 4 years that asked to see one of the watches. Yes I kept my eyes peeled for any nice vintage movements, at each watchmaker shop, as well as in the various antique shops...I found nothing, seems as if Tourby has bought them all up. One watchmaker spent 4 years in formal training, 40 hours a week, trained to do most anything, could make just about any part you can imagine, and worked at various high end manufacturer's. But working for the big boys is not an easy way to make a living as a watchmaker. Having enough of that, he relocated to a small town, and his work today consisted of only restoring clocks for antique collectors. He has a number of friends working for AD's, one who works for Rolex in Switzerland as a servicing tech. Although this fellow has the same 4 year training under his belt, his skills are all gone...he's nothing more than a parts changer at Rolex, meaning that if during servicing he discovers a problem, he simply replaces parts until it's fixed. No troubleshooting, no thinking, no using his skills beyond being able to disassemble and put back together the movement. It's robot assembly line work, same thing, over and over, repeated many times a day, a week, a year...if you work for an AD as an assembler, you are in the same monotonous job day after day as the servicing fellow. I made it to the WOSTEP school I was thinking of attending, thinking that someone with a WOSTEP certificate, could make a reasonable living as a watchmaker...and since I seem to have a knack for watchmaking, I figured why not take it to the next level. Well thankfully I did some research and asked lots of questions first (thanks Kruz for the pointers). The cost to attend the 40 hour a week course, for 2 years, tuition alone, is 30,000 Euro's (aprox $45,000 CDN). Add to that, lost salary for those two years, then the cost of living and eating etc, and it's not cheap. So after graduation what would you expect to earn? I would expect 50-100K after a few years, especially if you consider the skill a watchmaker needs to practice his trade, and the value of the watches he's working on is so high, you would expect to be compensated accordingly. Well much to my dismay, the expected salary after completion of the course, starts at a measly 12,000 Euro's a year up to a whopping 24,000 Euro's after 5 or so years...that is what you get working for one of the genuine manufacturer's (Rolex, etc), either doing assembly work, or servicing. After 5 years, it can go up to the mid 40's or higher, depending on what you do, and who you do it for. After 5 years of working for a genuine manufacturer, you could venture out on your own and set up your own shop and hopefully earn somewhat more money. I met with the dean of the WOSTEP school and the teacher I had spoken to earlier this year. I easily met their entry skill requirements (assembly of a 6497 and some basic filling work) and could sign up for next year's course intake in August if I wanted to, but after finding out the salary, it's not going to happen - at least not for me. The WOSTEP program has very stringent entry requirements, based on skill and an interview. Most (80%) of applicants fail to gain entry, simply because they don't have the necessary hand/eye and fine motor skills needed to carry out watch work. And since watchwork and the WOSTEP program is all skill based, age is irrelevant. But at any age, the pay is just not there to justify the cost. So I'll be staying where I am and continue to work on watches in my spare time, until I retire from my day job. In case your wondering about my availiability this fall, I am booked up until into January 2009. That's because I will be doing quite a bit of traveling for work, and have cut back on my schedule for watches to a couple of nights a week. The eye injury in August pushed everything ahead a month, and I don't like to book to far in advance. Hope everyone is doing well, nice to be home, real nice...especially to see my sons after 3 weeks. RG and J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P8B Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome back The Zigmeister! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome home, Ziggy. Considering the jet lag, this is quite a journal report from your travels. I cannot wait until you have had time to do a proper 1. I have never done that much traveling by camper, but your descriptions of showering, emptying & lack of privacy immediately brought back my memories from the couple of days I spent in 1 many years ago. Now I remember why I have not done it again. I think you are either cut out for camper travel or you are not & I definitely fall into the latter category. Interesting findings about WOSTEP & the watchmaking trade in France. While I know their standard of living is a bit below what we are used to here in North America, I was surprised to hear that so many trained watchmakers' skills are wasting away. That is especially strange considering how starved we are for even trained parts-changers here. And with Rolex & now some other luxury brands willing to foot the price of the training, it sure sounds like someone is on the wrong side of the pond when it comes to high end watches & watchmaking. Still, glad to hear you & J enjoyed your vacation & made it home in 1 piece (& still a couple). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Better to see France in a camper than not to see france,LOL. Welcome home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Manny Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome back! I enjoyed the read and I can imagine the trip was wonderful. I don't know what is going to happen to the art if nobody can make the money to justify the education. Did the Dean happen to mention what their admissions were like? I'm curious if they still have the applicants to support the industry. Cheers, CM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome Home R&J.. wow.. what an adventure.. you'll need time to recover from all the miles I'm sure.. it seems like forever since you started your trip.. it's been a long month without you both.. and without your knowledge on the board things have not been the same.. So Welcome Home !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted October 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 I'll be able to come up with some more details once I get my head on Atlantic time Not sure what is going on with watchmakers in the EU, but the pay does not seem to be there. I think some of the watchmakers I spoke with could make a really good living in north america, imagine what you learn in 4 years of watchmaking school... Admissions to the school are steady, 12 students each year, and full courses. Each student does 2, one month internships, and each student gets a job offer from someone before they finish school. That's all fine and well, but at 12K to start, I don't know how you survive in Switzerland on that salary. Time for bed, I am surprised I managed stayed up this late tonight. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdaddy Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Nice report The Zigmeister. I would have thought that a watch school graduate would be doing at least as well as an experienced machinist or other skilled trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome back, Rob! The board misses you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome back and nice post. Don't give up on the certification yet! There is a WOSTEP certified school in Seattle. A bit cheaper and closer to home. Same curriculum and your exams are overseen by WOSTEP instructors from Switzerland. I think the pay is better in North America, where you could get a job with a chain for around 50K. Go independent and you could make more. Look how busy you are now. You have a great reputation, once certified, you can build on that. The same amount of work and effort goes into servicing a Rolex as to what you are doing now, you can just charge 3 to 4 times more. Service a rep for $200 or service a gen for $600. The market is growing with high end mechanical watches, yet the amount of qualified watchmakers is shrinking every year. Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I still think it could be a great career move if one was serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 A testimony to how lucky we are as a community to have a guy like Mr. Z in the fold. Welcome home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome home dude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Sounds like it was a great trip Zig. Welcome back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Merci pour le rapport Ziggy! Je ne savais pas que le fran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin25 Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Hi Rob, Great to hear that your trip was a suc6! By the way.. how Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Good to see you both enjoyed your trip (and showers) Rob;) ...surprised to see watchmakers aren't making a decent living in France, here in the Netherlands they make a very good living. In Switserland earning $12K a year, living would be impossible, it's quite an expensive country to live Nice reading your holidayjournal, hope you will get rid of the jetlag soon Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 At last the master returns home! ROBSTEP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Interesting read Zig, and welcome back mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Very interesting report. Brings back my childhood memories of holidays in a VW camper van in Devon UK. Enjoy your spacious shower and home comforts! Welcome back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmt Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Thanks for the great report, Rob. And welcome back! As usual, you were missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Glad to have you back Ziggy. Thanks for a great read. I'm sure if you went to that school in France they would learn lots from you. Their loss, our gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Interesting report. That is some low pay for highly skilled work after expensive tuition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its_urabus Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 sounds like a great time. I am glad you two made it back safe. any pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Welcome back Rob. Nice to hear your travel where full of new experiences and fun Talk to you later. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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