Richard Tracy Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Let me start by saying that I love mechanical watches,... always have and always will. Why ?? Because micro mechanics are not only beautiful, but link us to our past. I also noted how digital watches almost killed the mechanical,.... however there are times when I miss the simplicity, the reliability, prices, and yes the functionality of electronic watches.... Now mind you that I am not speaking of the type that mimic mechanical form, no, ,..I mean the multi-function, cell phone, mp3, bluetooth, gps, television, ect. ect. ect..... My first digital watch was in the 70's a Seiko with as many gadgets as I could find, alarm, calculator, ect,.. for which I paid $150, { a tidy sum at the time} and that watch was so usefu, and lasted so many years without a problem that I never forgot it. Then I was swept up in the rhetoric of the Swiss watch industry and never looked back, that is until recently. When I was a kid I was always fascinated with [censored] Tracy's watch, it was his special tool that set him apart, and I dreamed of a time when I could actually own one,... well that time is here, with video cell phones already released in Europe and soon here in America.. Now I find myself thinking about revisiting the digital watch,... Whenever I do consider a digital purchase however, I hear the echos of slogans and opinions that are stronly evident on mechanical watch forums,.. which I have agreed with, and also posted myself for years,.. but I am starting to rethink those opinions.. and those thoughs are coloring my past opinions as snobbish and a more than a bit illogical. Does anyone else feel the tide of time pulling to the digital realm who were always firmly in the of fox hole of the mechanicals ? Come on out and voice your opinions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yeah I mean...we are constantly amazed by what can be done on an analogue platform...why shouldn't we be impressed with the digital platform! I think many of us have become "desensitized" due to the fact that we are constantly wrapped up in an ever-changing world of technology... mechanical platforms are our "rock" - a sort of link to old world craftsmanship, values, and stability... In the 1970s there was a huge push towards digital- it nearly destroyed the Swiss watch industry but due to exhaustive consolidation and marketing the Swiss mechanical watch industry remained mostly in-tact. 10 years ago I would have never imagined that we could do some of the stuff we do now and I'm not "that" old (although my white hairs are starting to show ) but I find myself scouring CNET at times to make sure I don't fall behind in the bleeding edge technology world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflylow78 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 battery - will never find it's way to my wrist. i have not worn a quartz watch since i turned 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadweller4000 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 The only quartz watch I would wear because I like it is a Sinn UX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have a Suunto quartz with an altimeter that I wear when I go up in the mountains. I regard that as a great watch. On the other hand, I recently sold a gold JLC mechaquartz chronograph despite its technological merits and gooooooooooood looks because I just couldn't get over the once per second tick on the small seconds indicator. I think if a digital watch brings unique features, by all means enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have a Suunto quartz with an altimeter that I wear when I go up in the mountains. I regard that as a great watch. On the other hand, I recently sold a gold JLC mechaquartz chronograph despite its technological merits and gooooooooooood looks because I just couldn't get over the once per second tick on the small seconds indicator. I think if a digital watch brings unique features, by all means enjoy it. The IWC with the JLC movement or was it a JLC branded one...I like the designs of those but I think JLC + quartz is sacrilegious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Never. The whole point is that it has basically been perfect for two hundred years and the bar it set at improving craftmanship and design as opposed to making something which is technically superior. The machine that is the mechanical timepiece is the marvel and to me, and as such nothing that is digital - watch or otherwise could ever peak my interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Never. The whole point is that it has basically been perfect for two hundred years and the bar it set at improving craftmanship and design as opposed to making something which is technically superior. The machine that is the mechanical timepiece is the marvel and to me, and as such nothing that is digital - watch or otherwise could ever peak my interest. I have to disagree, on two points, and wonder at a third,.... 1. If you seek perfection, mechanical will never give you that, moving parts are imperfect by their very nature. Gears have been around for thousands of years and were one of mankind's first attempt at technology. 2nd, Craftsmanship and design are found in both mechanical and electronic. 3rd, how can one shun digital totally and live in a modern world ? No, as I said before, I love mechanical watches, and always will, but that part of my soul, I understand, is purely emotional, an illogical loyalty to a side that I must admit may have been influenced by the advertisement manipuations of the Swiss watch industry, who were fighting against the tide of time which had attempted to move forward without them, and will eventually, regardless of what you and I think. Much like the Samurai who were shot down by the gun, their swords a thing of great beauty and long history, now collectors items. Time had turned against them. Eventually the mechanical watch will fade away as the younger generations, the ones who have not been indoctrinated, take the logical course and strap on ones wrist, the one companion that serves all our needs from communication, gps, entertainment, computing, timekeeping, work, and who knows what else, for a much smaller investment. The only question that remains for us from the vantage of this forum, is if the replica world will keep up, and sadly I believe that it won't, because there will be no gap in price points from which to exploit, like the one that the Swiss watch industry is using to rob us blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 RobbieG may just be talking about watches in terms of shunning digital- he's active on ETFs and I would assume ECN's with the stock market and, if I recall, his company is developing trade software so I'm not sure he shuns EVERYTHING digital Lets not forget- porn wouldn't be what it is without the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smc Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I could use a Breitling B1... Still praying for a rep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have to disagree, on two points, and wonder at a third,.... 1. If you seek perfection, mechanical will never give you that, moving parts are imperfect by their very nature. Gears have been around for thousands of years and were one of mankind's first attempt at technology. 2nd, Craftsmanship and design are found in both mechanical and electronic. 3rd, how can one shun digital totally and live in a modern world ? No, as I said before, I love mechanical watches, and always will, but that part of my soul, I understand, is purely emotional, an illogical loyalty to a side that I must admit may have been influenced by the advertisement manipuations of the Swiss watch industry, who were fighting against the tide of time which had attempted to move forward without them, and will eventually, regardless of what you and I think. Much like the Samurai who were shot down by the gun, their swords a thing of great beauty and long history, now collectors items. Time had turned against them. Eventually the mechanical watch will fade away as the younger generations, the ones who have not been indoctrinated, take the logical course and strap on ones wrist, the one companion that serves all our needs from communication, gps, entertainment, computing, timekeeping, work, and who knows what else, for a much smaller investment. The only question that remains for us from the vantage of this forum, is if the replica world will keep up, and sadly I believe that it won't, because there will be no gap in price points from which to exploit, like the one that the Swiss watch industry is using to rob us blind. Disagree? I'm not sure that I do really. I'm just figuring we weight here away from digitalgiven it is a forum populated by mechanical watch nuts, but I get that it is worth discussing, so moving on... I don't shun digital obviously since I make my living through full automation. LOL. But not in matters of the heart as they say. Sounds to me like we agree actually because as you say it is a matter of the soul. I suppose the difference then is that I stop there and you entertain digital because you don't stop there, and maybe like to introduce practicality into the equation? Simply put, my watch decisions are never practical and I love that - given that every thing else in my life is I enjoy the escape it provides. And maybe I'm also a bad one to ask because I for one don't feel the Swiss are robbing me blind. Nor am I influenced by their advertising. Nor do I wear them as status symbols. Pretty simple for me really. Nice things cost money in my world and I'm usually happy to pay it if it moves me - watch, furniture, clothing or otherwise. It is just the way it is. But honestly, how can buying a thing that sits on your wrist and paying even as much as 25K for it as I have make any practical sense at all - or a hundred grand for a sports car - or a million for a vacation property - or ten bucks for a soda in a hotel bar? Were we draw lines is a personal decision so it doesn't make for much of a sane debate really. Mechanical watches are perfect in that the machine cannot be improved upon in its current state. It is perfectly imperfect and the allure is it is a connection to the past - like fine furniture. Sure, I know Rooms 2 Go makes stuff that holds a cup of coffee just as well and is impervious to stains and is moisture treated or whatever - but it doesn't make my heart beat quicken when I look at and touch it. To that end I don't really care how accurate a quartz watch is - it doesn't look and feel and have the personality that say my UN Diver or GMT or whatever has, nor was it built on the sweat equity of upholding tradition. Mechanical watches will not fade through generations either. There will always be a market for them at some level. I'm also not sure what you mean about the rep world keeping up. I'm also not a guy that thinks most replicas really nail the essence of their genuine counterparts other than the look and basic function of them either so to that end I'm probably a bad case study for any opinion on this stuff. So it kind of ties in I guess to the practicality side of the discussion. For me, reps are usually missing all the fine details that draw me to watches in the first place. It took me buying maybe 50 reps over the years to come to that personal decision which was really just an understanding of what I like about timepieces. It is the pure perfection of the finest details that moves me not the designs or whatever so much. So to that end I found myself constantly unsatisfied because while everyone else was judgeing flaws and comparing them to the originals visually, I couldn't care less about accuracy but was more interested in how well they were made down to the finest detail - flaws completely aside. To that end, my rep collecting has sort of evolved into buying them as a dry run to see if I fall in love with a design in order to pursue the final end of letting the Swiss rob me. LOL. But anyway, as I said this debate is so personal it is hard to figure what the different opinions even mean. How can I possibly understand the merits of a digital watch when I'm really just wanting to stare at applied gold roman numerals or a screw balance or blued hairspring with a loupe? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Lets not forget- porn wouldn't be what it is without the internet Yes, now there is an industry that has greatly benefited from the digital age. Case in point. If you use a loupe there you can't really see anything so you might as well step back and go for clarity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yes, now there is an industry that has greatly benefited from the digital age. Case in point. If you use a loupe there you can't really see anything so you might as well step back and go for clarity... True...and Flynt does want bailout money...that's my type of "stimulus package"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronology1066 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 The key thing for me and manyothers is that it is a hobby which embodies both art and craftsmanship. Lets face it, how often do you see it elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 It's an interesting topic to be sure. It was a digital watch which first got me interested in watches in the first place: The Seiko worn in Octopussy. I tend to primarily wear mechanical watches nowadays, but, I do have some digital watches in my collection. The Omega X-33, and two Clones of a Suunto Vector. One in all black, the other in black and grey. To be honest, I bought the Clones more as collection watches (as Suuntos are the watch of choice on Stargate:Atlantis) but, if I really felt the need to wear something which was bullet-proof for timing and not caring if it got smashed up, I'd wear one. My preference for mechanical watches is aesthetic rather than functional. If 'they' were to make a digital watch which looked as good as a Rolex or an Omega, then I might be persuaded, but it would have to look like a high-end watch (in terms of quality and aesthetics, rather than 'looking expensive') rather than a nickel-plated saturday night special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 It has been my feeling that, contrary to prevailing wisdom, the current mechanical watch boom will be the next bubble to burst. The largest growth spurt in the mechanical watch industry began to take off just before 9/11. That means that that 1st wave of mechanicals are now coming due for servicing. And, having grown up around mechanical watches during their heyday, I know that having a watch run properly without regular servicing is definitely the exception rather than the rule. And I also know that, when presented with the option to spend $200+ to service an aging mechanical or $100 to buy a nice new quartz, more & more new mechanical owners will opt for the cost of regular battery replacements over regular service/repairs. So it would not surprise me to see, in 5 years time, a resurgence of Swatch & more Dick Tracy types of all-in-1 devices & a serious drop in mechanical watch sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionz Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Interesting topic. I prefer mechanic watches. But if i look from the other side, there are many vintage quartz ones that seem interesting and nice to me. And if we speak about servicing a mechanical movement, then i think, that with time only watch enthusiasts will wear mechanical watches, but it wouldn't be in near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 It has been my feeling that, contrary to prevailing wisdom, the current mechanical watch boom will be the next bubble to burst. The largest growth spurt in the mechanical watch industry began to take off just before 9/11. That means that that 1st wave of mechanicals are now coming due for servicing. And, having grown up around mechanical watches during their heyday, I know that having a watch run properly without regular servicing is definitely the exception rather than the rule. And I also know that, when presented with the option to spend $200+ to service an aging mechanical or $100 to buy a nice new quartz, more & more new mechanical owners will opt for the cost of regular battery replacements over regular service/repairs. So it would not surprise me to see, in 5 years time, a resurgence of Swatch & more [censored] Tracy types of all-in-1 devices & a serious drop in mechanical watch sales. But they will never go away and will always be a target for discriminating buyers of luxury items. Plus, I personally can't wait for the bubble to burst because as with all bubbles the bar will be higher for survival of the fittest. We will see the flood of real "stretched" designs and ideas disappear entirely and the tried and true designs and brands remain which is fine by me. I won't shed a tear when the Dewitt's and BRM's and so on go away. Patek and VC and AP and Rolex and Breitling and Omega and the like will always hold my interest. They have for 30 years+ now and my taste still hasn't changed. And that, ironically, comes full circle with thread. The fact that mechanical watches need not change for us to love them is remarkable. Most other things in life are measured by constant evolution but for the most part, not watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 If digital watches were going to end the days of mechanical watches, it would have happened in the 70's/80's when the digital watch was introduced to the mainstream. There is always going to be a market for the 'enthusiast', and bulk of those buyers won't buy a quartz. The craftsmanship that goes into even the cheapest mechanical movement means more to the enthusiast than any technical achievement that comes with a quartz watch. However, I could see a sort of mating of the two becoming much more prevalent. The Seiko Spring Drive is a great combination of mechanical craftsmanship and technological achievement and is certainly a movement that I'd love to add to my collection. With that being said, I came across the first digital watch to even remotely interest me today - it's the Chase Durer UDT 1000xl. I spotted the lead actor from Burn Notice wearing it today and it's pretty sharp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 But they will never go away and will always be a target for discriminating buyers of luxury items. Plus, I personally can't wait for the bubble to burst because as with all bubbles the bar will be higher for survival of the fittest. We will see the flood of real "stretched" designs and ideas disappear entirely and the tried and true designs and brands remain which is fine by me. I won't shed a tear when the Dewitt's and BRM's and so on go away. Patek and VC and AP and Rolex and Breitling and Omega and the like will always hold my interest. They have for 30 years+ now and my taste still hasn't changed. And that, ironically, comes full circle with thread. The fact that mechanical watches need not change for us to love them is remarkable. Most other things in life are measured by constant evolution but for the most part, not watches. I agree with you and Freddy here...the bubble "WILL" burst but the higher end brands like Patek, VC, AP don't have the same issues as, say, TAG or Oris (and to some extent, Omega- although they are trying (and doing pretty well) positioning themselves to be at or very near Rolex quality (and soon value) ) $100,000 watches will not see much-if any- purchasing slowdowns and most AD's that sell really high end watches will tell you that sales of super high end watches have remained steady while the "fashion" brands (Cartier, Tiffany, etc) have seen an absurd drop in sales... people are moving towards higher value and, as Freddy said, the sell-off of many nice watches with clueless owners will begin to really pick up soon as these people decide that winding, setting, and servicing just aren't for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I agree with you and Freddy here...the bubble "WILL" burst but the higher end brands like Patek, VC, AP don't have the same issues as, say, TAG or Oris (and to some extent, Omega- although they are trying (and doing pretty well) positioning themselves to be at or very near Rolex quality (and soon value) ) $100,000 watches will not see much-if any- purchasing slowdowns and most AD's that sell really high end watches will tell you that sales of super high end watches have remained steady while the "fashion" brands (Cartier, Tiffany, etc) have seen an absurd drop in sales... people are moving towards higher value and, as Freddy said, the sell-off of many nice watches with clueless owners will begin to really pick up soon as these people decide that winding, setting, and servicing just aren't for them. The good news is that anyone who wants any of those neuvo watches for cheap will have them and plenty to choose from. And maybe some higher complications will come available cheaper too. For example, I would like to have a nice perpetual calendar and a nice repeater someday and it looks like that I may be able to get them much cheaper than I originally thought. I like the idea of a travel watch with an alarm so trading up the Dual Time to something like the Sonata sounds fun - although $60-(80k with full WG bracelet) is a bit much. Already seeing them as low as 25K. With regard to the perpetual, grabbing the UN which preserves the great GMT complication along with a PC in which all PC functions move simultaneously forward and backward across time zones is cool but expensive. I always said I would love to have a reason to have a winder and keep a watch running continuously without ever having to wind or reset the date. Similarly, this piece is very expensive at 50-70K and I'm seeing them now for $25K and less. The bottom line is the lazy people like my best friend with the million dollar watch collection (sorry bud) just buy these things for giggles and have no interest in servicing them. We WIS are going to make some great scores from guys like him in the coming few years as the boom floods the used market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I recently performed a movement transplant in my black and grey Suunto Clone. Despite the two cases being theoretically identical, I had to tweak the contacts on the new movement so it would make the proper contact with the case pushers. I used a pair of jeweler's 'wire-bending pliars', and it took quite a bit of trial and error to get the connections correct. Crazy as this might sound, I felt the same pleasure in doing the work, and had the same feeling of satisfaction at the end, as I have felt from working on a mechanical movement. For me, the passion is watches, regardless of the specifics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I see 20-30 watches a week, requiring work. Most all are quartz, and when the odd mech is presented, most people, when confronted with a quote of $150-$200 for service, just walk away. It is actually surprising, that many actually hand me the watch, and say, "Well see if you can use it for parts" It really is only the "brand" names, with perceived "value", that even encourage owners to discuss further, whether a service is justified. I will add, that this applies to older watches, which have come thru the various generations, or are laying round in drawers. If someone has a late model watch, whether it is quartz or mech, and they have paid recent money for it....I believe the owner will then pony up the necessaries for repair. (up to 50% of original cost) So this is just another look at the thinking of the masses, in the quartz/mech discussion. Offshore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I see 20-30 watches a week, requiring work. Most all are quartz, and when the odd mech is presented, most people, when confronted with a quote of $150-$200 for service, just walk away. It is actually surprising, that many actually hand me the watch, and say, "Well see if you can use it for parts" It really is only the "brand" names, with perceived "value", that even encourage owners to discuss further, whether a service is justified. I will add, that this applies to older watches, which have come thru the various generations, or are laying round in drawers. If someone has a late model watch, whether it is quartz or mech, and they have paid recent money for it....I believe the owner will then pony up the necessaries for repair. (up to 50% of original cost) So this is just another look at the thinking of the masses, in the quartz/mech discussion. Offshore If someone is not truly a watch enthusiast, just someone who 'wears a watch to tell the time', then I think they might put less emotional value to their watch, and thus less willing to spend larger amounts of money on a service, as they might rather put that money towards a new watch, rather than fixing the old one. I think it's only when someone actually appreciates a particular watch, that they begin to consider it something worth repairing when it 'breaks', rather than just replacing when it 'breaks'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantR Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Very interesting topic. I don't agree that the Swiss manufactures will die out. For one thing there will always be the status symbol effect that a Casio cannot replicate without spending hundreds of millions in advertising and another 100years of watch making. What i do think will happen is the cooperation of digital elements to elegant mechanical time pieces. The saying "if you can't beat them join them" expresses my prediction perfectly. I for one am excited about the possible advances in the watch making industry, from solar energy faces to digital displays emulating analog (such as is in Merc S-Class) End of the day who knows but nothings going to change over night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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