Review of Modded Mbw Rolex 1680 Submariner

[By-Tor]

Originally posted Dec 2005. Last updated July 2006

This review was originally just a pictorial, but it has finally developed to an extensive review of the MBW "vintage" Submariner. I linked lots of articles in this post so newbies could easier dive into the exciting deep sea of vintages. So you could consider this post as some sort of "introduction", mini-FAQ and reference guide. I highly recommend you to check the reviews and articles that I've linked in the end of this post.

This, in my latest update (July 2006) I wanted to clear up a few things about these watches, and look at them more objectively. There's a lot of hype and false exceptations around the MBW Rolexes. Many people think they're "perfect" or "indistinguishable from a gen", which simply isn't true. I suspect people have put them on pedestal because they're more expensive - and because for some unknown reason very few dealers have access to them. I have learned from guys like Ziggy to never believe the hype, just try to examine the cold, hard facts objectively. And as I did more research I became more informed about the subject. I'm still far from an expert but I'm always willing to learn more. To be honest Submariner doesn't really interest me (personally) that much anymore, but because it's such an icon in the replica community I find the subject fascinating.

There are plenty of nice vintage rep models of the sports Rolexes (some even very nice) but the Watchmaster/MBW 1680 and vintage SeaDwellers are in the league of their own. This review is more concentrated on them, and especially on the "red" 1680 model.

Very common question among the new members is: "What is a MBW?"

MBW means "Maria's Best Watch". Besides "Maria" there have been other dealers, such as WatchMaster, Luckyyy and George who have sold these exact same watches. Thus calling them all "MBW" is misleading, but it has become the commonly used "general term" among the members. I think it's a good term, because it makes identifying them easier for everyone.

The two "bread and butter" MBW models are 1680 (that is available in both red and white SUBMARINER font), and SeaDweller 1665 (available in "double red" and with white dial print). The DRSD (The Double Sea Dweller) is one of the most sought after genuine watches among the Rolex collectors, and their prices have skyrocketed in the past 10 years. Another standard MBW models are the GMT Master I (very inaccurate, uses Submariner case and crystal) and Milgauss. There are also modern "MBW" watches available. The reason I used quotation marks is because this subject is so large that it would require another review altogether.

If you're more interested in Sea Dweller you might want to check HERE Randy's awesome white 1665 MBW. Some might argue that if you want extreme accuracy it's better base watch than 1680 in many ways. MBW 1665 is also the only replica SeaDweller that has a thick case and crystal like the genuine. All other reps are basically just "tweaked" Submariners without cyclops.

How good these replica watches are? Are they indistinguishable from the genuine...right out of box?

Short answer is no. If you take my "red 1680" for example... almost everything in that watch is a bit wrong, except the exact case dimensions (save the crown protector guards which (at unmodded state) are quite far from the "genuine look"). These watches make excellent base for modifications, because of their rare ability to take genuine parts. But the red 1680 model is still far from "perfect". Actually, there are many other, much cheaper Rolex replicas that look much more accurate "out of box" than MBW 1680. So if you're not willing to invest lots of money on a rep, don't like building and modifying them, I suggest to find cheaper and better alternatives. But if you want a good vintage Rolex replica and are a bit adventurous, there are no serious alternatives.

In the following review I'll show you a fine example of a modified MBW watch which (in its own merits) is an impressive, convincing piece of art.

My watch has been "vintagized" and excessively modified by my friend Tommy/Palpatine. The guy is an artist (as you can see from the pictures). It has full mods package, genuine springbars and better aftermarket insert which has been aged as well. Very, very convincing job.

I wanted my watch without pearl because I liked how it looked on Saabin's very hardcore Single Red SD. Crown guard job is nothing short of excellent, which is always excepted from Tommy. He also aged the hour markers and hands to give it the "patina/tritium look", and my dial is definitely one of his better works.

One of the most attractive features on vintage Rolexes is the bulged acrylic crystal. It gives the watch very different appearance when compared to its modern counterpart.

I polished and rebrushed the bracelet myself. You can get some hints HERE how to polish & brush a steel bracelet. Gen vintage 1680's come with different bracelet variations (like the folded one), but all default MBW's come with solid middle link Oyster band which is inaccurate. It's difficult (or almost impossible) to detect from someone's wrist but many members have updated their reps with genuine hollow link type of bands. Personally, I prefer the solid version because it makes the watch feel heavier and more substantial.

BRACELET, SPRINGBARS & CLASP:

As you can see the clasp isn't exactly correct, either. The "gap" between the fliplock on genuine watch is smaller and not "rounded". But I suspect there could be variations... again?

GENUINE CLASP (the picture from a 1665):

Randy, the community's reigning Vintage Master has (of course) attempted every possible trick to age the inserts... You can read his about his experiments from HERE.

AGED INSERT:

MARKERS & HANDS:

WRISTSHOT:

When compared to genuine 1680 the only instant noticeable differences are the winding crown and thicker date font. But since MBW watches accept genuine parts these are easy fixes for the "hardcores". Case dimensions are exact... and after "Palp" mods the crown guards are almost indistinguishable from a gen. 1680 originally comes with extremely large date magnification but most of the preowned watches have aftermarket crystals. Therefore generic crystal is a good "budget" option. .

When we make another, more detailed comparison the differencies become more apparent. The dial looks like the weakest link of the MBW. Almost all markings & coronet are incorrect when compared to genuine 1680's... and also the red "SUBMARINER" font looks dead wrong. It should be "cherry" red, narrower and lower. The datewheel is silver on a genuine 1680 but when you get your watch serviced by RSC they often replace it with aftermarket white datewheel. So in this sense it's not necessarily "incorrect" on the replica.

"Out of box" MBW 1680 compared to a genuine:

Then, let's make yet another comparison. Now we compare my modified 1680 to another genuine watch. As you can see the dial is different this time! Now the coronet and other markings look much closer. Compared to this watch the rep dial suddenly doesn't look bad at all. The SUBMARINER text is still too big on the rep, which is the only dead giveaway. But keep in mind: this is the only 1680 example I've found which has even remotely similar dial with the rep. Could it be a redial? God only knows (and perhaps Randy and Nanuq too). But if nothing else, this is a good example that there's a lot of variation among the genuine 1680's. When it's about vintage watches nothing is carved on stone. This fact alone makes identifying a well modified fake very difficult.

Modded MBW 1680 compared to another genuine:

As you can see the crown guard shape on the replica is different. Modded guards can be close, but they're too "curved"... and therefore almost impossible to modify to look 1:1. Some people say there's variation in the gen 1680 crown guards, but I've never seen ones that are so curved. They're all straighter, "spiky"... and look like "chops". Check THIS reference picture to see what I mean. The other differences crown, pearl, datewheel and bezel insert are easy, standard mods. The hour markers can vary from "ivory white" to almost orange on aged watches. Even the experts can't explain why the markers age differently. Antiquorum is the best place to look around and make comparisons.

Conclusion: MBW 1680 is an excellent watch (in its own merits), but not terribly accurate replica in "out of box" condition. It requires lots of parts, modifications and money to become very close. And even after all this effort it won't be 100% indistinguishable from a genuine. As I have become more informed about watches in general (and because I don't possess the skill to modify the watches myself) I personally don't see investing $600-$1000 to a replica watch very tempting. But then again, modifying these watches is the whole fun for others.

Does this all mean that I think they're not good replicas? No. Nothing could be further from the truth, I think they're amazing, convincing timepieces. What I tried to achieve with this review was an objective approach, which, for some reason is often missing from people's watch reviews. And remember, all these observations require very trained "eye", lots of reading, comparing pictures and again more reading. If you're just a vintage Rolex lover who's not "anal" about small inaccuracies, I recommend you to just enjoy your beautiful, handsome MBW timepiece.

Thanks for reading.

REFERENCE MATERIAL:

Ubiquitous "Getting the vintage beat right"

Ubiquitous "How to identify a vintage MBW Rolex"

Ubiquitous "Quick fix for non-fliplock Oysters and Jubilee bracelets"

Ubiquitous "One way to solve vintage Rolex datewheel flaw"

Ubiquitous transferred his 1680 into a gorgeous Tudor Submariner

Verbal Kint's nice 1680

My friend Edge's beautiful modded 1680 with aged insert

Bigdoggy's white 1680

XRT's 1680

Ziggy mods a COMEX MBW Sub

Ziggy's awesome lume job on a Rolex Singer dial

Palpatine's fine tutorials and "dial aging" hints are also available. If you're adventurous enough you might want to attempt these mods yourself. You can view his pictorials

HERE,HERE,HERE,HERE and HERE.

[700club]

absolutely amazing, i love it.

cheers

[OI812]

Looks great Tor.......outstanding....... I just got the same watch on Friday.....and have been working on "modifying" it myself on and off all weekend......your pics are a great "guide"........thanks!

[By-Tor]

Thanks, you guys always say the nicest things!

[panerai]

Excellent, very close to the original. Here's a shot of my original 1680, I've had this watch for over 30 years.

[By-Tor]

@panerai: If you like my watch... I can trade it with yours.

Seriously, genuine is genuine. Mine is just a forgery, afterall. A good one but forgery nevertheless. Enjoy your legendary timepiece.

[panerai]

@ By-Tor

Thanks. There is nothing wrong with forgeries in my opinion. The last Rolex AD service cost a $1000 (Australian). For that I got a new crystal, bezel insert, hands and a service. They also brushed and polished the case.

Unfortunately they didn't return the hands which had a nice patina to them but apparently this is standard practice but I wish they had left the old hands on.

The watch has an interesting history. It was purchased by my dad while we were on holidays in Italy in 1973 (however its a 1970 build, apparently it had been sitting in the window for 3 yrs), I was five at the time and still remember him pointing to it in the window and haggling for a better price. Anyway he gave it to me for my 21st birthday present. I'm planning on doing the same.

Anyway enjoy your 1680.

Edited March 20, 2006 by panerai

[By-Tor]

The review has been updated. I have added better pictures and lots of reference links to make this review & guide more informational and useful.

If you think some essential reviews & information is missing please let me know, I'm more than happy to add them.

Thanks, hope you like it.

[Edge]

@ My Friend By-tor

Excellent Review, truely beautifull. Enjoy the watch it's a definate keeper, and unlike Randy (turncoat/trator) one of my top 5 genuine watches of all time.

Chris

[Bigdoggy]

Originally posted Dec 2005. Last updated May 2006

Thanks for this REALLY GREAT post - missed it the first time around!!!!

[By-Tor]

Thanks. I'm amazed how many excellent information of the MBW/WM 1680 there is (posted by the members). Let's hope newbies can use this as a reference guide in the future. Some of those links are priceless.

[Edge]

Yeh like huh hum, my vintagising the insert thread lol.

[ubiquitous]

and unlike Randy (turncoat/trator)...

LOL!

Excellent review, BT! Great information and pics (as usual).

Cheers!

Randy

[By-Tor]

Thanks Randy. I hope I didn't miss any of your "bread and butter" reviews from the links.

[Craytonic]

Wow, thanks for getting this all together in one place.

[Tribal]

Great Post ByTor......

Excellent....

My favorite watch...

I love it....

Rg Tribal

P.S. i have send my White 1680 to Palp,he installed me Tube and Crown......

I made some work on the CG's and changed the Glas with Gen Tropic.

I piost some pics when its back from Palp.....

Rg Tribal

[By-Tor]

Thanks Tribal.

You had excellent and informative posts about your 1680 mods but they were all in the old RWG. Didn't want to link stuff from the dying forum. Maybe to the next update...

[warbody]

Whats the normal $price of those rolex?

[hanswurst]

One of the best posts in a long time... Thanks a lot!!!

[Craytonic]

Whats the normal $price of those rolex?

~7500

[Bigdoggy]

By-Tor:

Thank you for this great Post. I don't read the pinned stuff often enough.

This is OUTSTANDING!!

Thanks again.

BDgy

[By-Tor]

Okay, I basically rewrote the review again (hopefully for the last time). I hope it now serves a purpose as a "MBW mini-FAQ" too.

Added more comparison shots and reference links. Hope you like the improvements. Comments and suggestions are welcome (as usual).

[lukes]

By-Tor,

I only got around to reading this review from you recently, while researching DRSDs.

Thank you for all you have done for this community and the help you offer through your reviews. This post has clarified a lot of the confusion regarding MBW, as far as I am concerned. And quite possibly persuaded me to follow this route, since it seems like the only way to get a good DRSD.

Thanks!

L

[supermoves]

Would anyone here be interested in modding an MBW Anniversary Sub for me? If so, please send me a private message. Obv. I will pay you for your time/effort/parts.

Thank you in advance for helping me!

[kevin300z]

I'm thinking about getting this date wheel for my 1680, (actually I bought this one from by-tor) how does it look?

http://cgi.ebay.com/DATE-DISC-FOR-ROLEX-55...1QQcmdZViewItem