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Well guys as the title reads yes we are going to buy more watches! No shit!!!! So keep your eyes open there are some great deals out there (Jomashop has some real crack-en ones) but I found this in my email this morn at a great price. Now I have been looking at this watch for a couple of weeks searching the web to get a better price w/ no luck, Ball is not one of those brands you see with a $3500 suggested retail and then $1200 at grey market shops. Yes MOAB is a conservative in his politics and his watches nothing big or flashy for me, LOL.

Friends, Since I get quite a lot of PM's with questions about frankens I decided to write this thread. An AP franken is something special so it deserves it. hehe Basically this thread is about "How to build an AP franken?!" what you need and what to do. 1st step Since it's quite an expensive build, think about it, if you want it. If you are happy enough with the current reps, then don't do it. If you want something special closer to gen and you have the cash to spend, you are passionate about AP and/or you love the pieces then do it. Investment wise, I'm pretty sure you can get back what you invested. Parts are rare, the parts price alone you can sell and get your investment back. The case will go lost since only a franken AP uses this case. The 1st step I propose is thinking about the project. Also bear in mind, this is a special project and it needs time!!! My ultimate franken project took about 1,5 year to get completed. Don't get stressy, find everything you want to get your own personal build. Patience is needed!!! 2nd step If you decided to move on and take on the project then take a look at the regular AP dials, a limited edition dial is very very hard, nearly impossible to get. Once you have a dial you like then look for one. Ask around, contact some grey dealers that sell AP, for example in diamond districts etc. Contact some workshops that customize watches, like diamond setting etc. The price you should pay for a dial and tachy should be between $700 - $1200 (MAX!). I have now bought 7 dials in total, and these are the prices I have paid. 3rd step Once you bought a dial and tachy you need to look for an LWO movement. These are harder to get these days. Contact some watchsmiths, wholesalers etc. What you need is a Dubois Depraz module 2000 on an ETA2892 movement. If they don't come with canon pinion or hour wheel, don't worry, those are available to order. As for the cyclopse, you can use the rep cyclopse or if a cyclopse came with a movement you can use that as well. A few years back Uwe (finedd) made some cyclopses with a blue-purple AR coating, those are good as well. My advise, try to get one with that coloured coating. Gens came with purplish AR hue. The price of an LWO movement used to be $350 for a NOS movement. Right now I bought 3 movements, fully serviced with cannon pinion and hour wheel + cyclops at $550, sold them to some great members at the same price. Those came from 3 donor watches. As for donor watches, old Tag Heuers, Baume & Mercier, Chopard, Longines, Etienne Schwarz, Girard Perregaux used these movements. Ask around and you should be able to find this. Look on eBay as well, there was a set of 10 pieces Etienne Schwarz LWO's sold somewhere below $4.200. Divide it by 10 and you get a price below $420 per piece, canon pinion, hour wheel and cyclopse included. 4rd step I would propose to search for a datewheel I made, 1:1 to gen spec, unfortunately those are sold out but maybe some members have a spare one. Price for a new one was $61 shipped 5th step Depending on the build you want, search for gen hands, bezel, crystal, pushers and crown, this will be the hardest part imo for the search. This is not needed for a build, if you don't need this, skip this step. Basically the biggest difference between gen and rep hands is the shape. The center of the gen hands (hour and minute)is smaller vs the rep hands. The subdial hands look similar, though the rep hands won't fit immediately on to the LWO movement. This needs a slight modification. The gen pushers and crown use a different rubber substance, a more durable kind of rubber. Offcourse the crown is much better than the rep but, I feel if you want a gen crown you also need gen pushers due to the same aging process of the rubber. The gen crown does work on a rep crown tube, at least when I tried, hehe. The problem with the gen pushers is that when installed they sit a bit too deep vs the rep. If they sit too deep it's not 1:1 as per gen, with the reps it's much closer imo. Price for hands: $345 - $555 Price for pushers and crown: $280 - $450 A gen bezel is different than the rep, it needs a gen crystal gasket as well and gen screws too as the rep screws are slightly too large. A gen bezel is quite expensive. I bought 2 bezels, 1 second hand between $140 - $345 and 1 6th step buy a donor watch, the rep $518 7th step This step is not necessary at all! But I try to offer a guideline with steps to get closer to gen. This step includes the case milling to the correct thickness as per gen. The cost is $550. 8th step Once all of the above is done you will need to search for a competent watchmaker to perform these mods. Discuss the work on before hand, discuss the price and try to arrange a price on beforehand. I am open about the price I paid my watchmaker for the work, pricing was €300 for the modding work (drilling crown tube hole, shaving caseback, making movement ring, adjusting movement to COSC norms, re-engrave caseback, complete assembly) and shipping with UPS next day delivery was included. This to give an idea. 9th step Enjoy wearing your piece... TOTAL PRICE OF A PROJECT LIES BETWEEN USD 3.795 - 4.850. From my experience.

"The timezone course is very good & useful for getting your feet wet. But, as was said above, it is simply an introduction & does not make you a watchmaker. After successful completion of the course, you will be able to overhaul a working ETA movement, but diagnostics/repair will require much more." Agree. Online courses are Ok for learning how to take a basic movement apart, how to handle fragile parts (balance assembly), how to clean/assemble/oil a basic movement and this is all fine and dandy for hobby guys. The hard parts are chronographs, balance staffs, installing jewels, making small parts (odd stems, staffs, pivots etc). You can not learn this online, for this you need a teacher and believe it or not this is a large portion of what is needed on many watches not deemed 'throw away watches' that come into independent repair shops. Something else to be learned is case work like being able to fit and install all the different types of crystals...snap in, armored, MG/sapphire, and being able to cut crystals to size on a crystal grinder to fit older 'fancy' type watches when an exact replacement is not available. I say this because I did some of this type of work for a small shop and all they got for repair was quartz stuff needing batts/crystals/crowns/movements or mechanical watches that needed c/o plus services mentioned above, and parts...lot of omega, Bulova, Elgin, rolex, GP, Longines etc. The problem was always NO PARTS and it is worse now than it was then (10 years ago) because we had a rolex parts account back then and most omega material was available. Now I work only on ETA 28xx and rolex 15xx because that is all I have parts for. I got extremely tired of chasing down hard to find parts, sometimes for months at a time. I left out the part about needing between $10K and $20K in tools and supplies. One other choice is to work for a brand repair depot where you work on their products all day with no parts/customer hassles but with a guy looking over your shoulder wanting the work faster!, faster!, no comebacks! while he makes more $$ than the repair guys who do the actual work while doing nothing more than hassling the drones. I know this is not very encouraging but imho watch repair is a hard way to make a living. It's a pretty good cold weather indoor hobby though.

Yeah I was trying to be positive. I saw a side profile picture on fat panda and it looked ok. I think they cut the carbon fibre incorrectly or what ever they do. Such a shame. They must of gone to quite an effort to F it up so badly

Glad I didn't let her go...

Aged nine I was obsessed by robots and spent much time building them out of cardboard. It didn't qualify me as a doctor of robotics, that came much later, but it did develop my interest. Neither the OP nor I said anything more than hobby interest. Hobbies can lead to full time jobs with commitment to developing skills, but I really, really hope not in my case:-)

Here you go! $850...a lot of dough for a dial but it's one of only several Want to Buy: Vintage Rolex with Gen Movements Sub / GMT / Daytonas, etc!

Definitely a lot to learn from here. Ps: I miss Glasgow T.T

Still rocking the bluesy.

Just a word of caution. DOn't expect to become a qualified watchmaker from an online course. When I studied in the late 70s it was a two year full timne school. The labs are intensive and the tools/equipment needed are very expensive. You can learn a great deal from the online courses, but expect to spend a lot to get quality equipment and tools. Aside from the above caveat, have fun and enjoy the course. Whatever admiration you might have for mechanical watch movements (the miniature machines they are) expect that admiration to grow as you progress in the courses.