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Hey folks... I was fortunate in picking up the relatively untouched Abay 5514 in the raffle a few months back. Ive worn it occasionally round the office as the timekeeping has been spot on, and I hadn't really decided what to do with it. A few things niggled enough not to wear... 1. Spring bars looked buggered and even with the drilled lugs I couldn't seem to remove the bracelet without further tools. 2. The insert is looking so new and shiny... 3. When looking at the watch I could see that whatever cement had been used to fit the plexiglass you could see that around the edge - it just looked like too much cement used. 4. The bezel didn't turn... So today I had a few hours and decided to strip, clean case, refit plexiglass and fettle so that bezel was fitted and worked. The following pictures tell the story but I'll add a few words along the way. I hope you find it interesting / amusing to see this "carzy" 5514 stripped bare. "The Midcase" You know... it may not have correct crown tube height etc but it ain't a bad case... has some ok bevels on the lugs and the drilled holes are not badly positioned. I just softened edges and "dulled" it all over if that makes sense!? The engravings... I'm no expert so no idea if they are correct (ish) but at least no spelling errors... And the Escape Valve... Its one detail that sets this apart from the sub models of the day... "Plexiglass" I've never fitted one like this but I was right in thinking it had been shown a little too much cement when fitted (no offence to whoever did it... It wasn't falling out that's for sure!). Cleaned and refitted... with a little less cement. "Bezel Ring" with the plexiglass refitted I stripped the bezel ring, cleaned and adjusted wire before fitting... also dulled the shininess a little. "Movement / Dial" at this point I'm not in mind to spend too much on a new / better dial so just recased the Swiss ETA movement that is running strong and accurate without any adjustment. Now all that leaves is a few pictures of the 5514 Abay complete.with it's slightly bleached (dulled) insert, working bezel and better (I hope) plexiglass fitting. Not a bad couple of hours watch fettling... By the way I like the prototype clasp and bracelet on this... something a.little different. Would you do more to this? Or just enjoy it as a little fun oddity?? Cheers... "Woz"

Good to see you dude... +1 great guy in the membership [emoji112][emoji16][emoji106]

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Here is the MBK 5513/1680 lowdown... All the later MBK 5513/1680 cases I've had experience with were very close to a genuine 1680 case internally except for the dial window and dial seat sizes. MBK 5512/13/1680 -- The dial seat and dial window are cut for a 26mm 5513 spec dial and the inside of the case is spaced for an Eta 2836. Dial seat = the flat area inside the case where the dial mounts. Dial window = the opening in the front of the case where the dial shows. A genuine 1520/70 and 26mm genuine spec 5512/13 dial will not work properly because the stem will be too far to the front of the case. A genuine 1570/1575 date movement and 26.5mm genuine spec 1680 dial will work if the shoulder on the dial seat inside the case is enlarged from approximately 26.2mm to 26.7mm AND the dial window is enlarged slightly to expose more of the dial and allow more of the minute markers to show. The stem lines up Ok with this combination. You could cut the OD of an oem spec 1680 dial down to 26.0mm but it will probably cause the markers to be partially covered up (depending on each particular dial). If you want to go with an MBK case, rolex 1520/70 and 5512/13 dial...you will need to use a 1570/75 date movement with all the date works removed and the date wheel spacer still in place or a no date movement with a date wheel spacer, 1570/75 center wheel, canon pinion, and hour wheel. Why? Because the rolex 1520/70 no date movements are too thin to be used as is in an MBK case. If you use rolex type case screws, they usually have to be the razor edge type and it may still be hard to turn the movement inside the case because the screws may bind in the 'screw groove' cut in the case so you may have to use case clamps and screws. Turning a movement/dial inside the case (especially one that is a tight fit) can scratch paint off the dial. I sometimes use case clamps and screws in MBK cases so I do not have to move the movement/dial back and forth in the case to r/r the movement. Case clamps work as just good and do not leave marks inside the 'screw groove' in the case caused by running the screw head out against the wall of the 'screw groove' to hold the movement tight in the case. If you plan to use an MBK 5513/1680 case with a genuine rolex 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial, you need to have the dial seat and dial window cut. The dial window will work as is but it is a little bit too small for a 26.5mm 1680 dial and will scratch the minute markers and maybe the swiss T 25 at the bottom of the dial. This is why the outside diameter of the 1680 dials are roughly ground down to fit inside the shoulder cut in the dial seat on MBK 1680 watches...the dials were originally 26.5mm or so and they do a quickie grind job on them to reduce the od to fit inside the shoulder in the dial seat. Catch 22...if you enlarge the diameter of the dial window very much you will cut into the angle in the reflector aka 'rehaut'. I cut about .5mm total at a 90 degree angle to the front of the watch, not at an angle to match the reflector. After enlarging the dial window I finished the reflector with sandpaper while spinning the case in the lathe and you will never notice it has been enlarged. It is also a good idea to lightly sand the dial seat with 600 or 1000 sandpaper so the rough surface will not scratch the dial when turning the movement in the case. I doubt pictures would help much because anyone who can do the work can immediately see what needs to be done after measuring the dial, dial seat and dial window. In reality the MBK cases are Eta 2836 with 26mm dial or 1570/75 with 26.5mm dial cases. For 1520/70 and 26mm 5513 dials, go with a Yuki etc case to get by without any modifications. Note 5-30-16...I bought an MBW '5512' timehead (no bracelet) from an RWG member (easy deal!) a while back but the watch came with a thicker 1665 SD bezel assembly. Counting the cost of the watch plus a new bezel assembly, I probably would have been better off buying a Yuki case for an extra $150/$200. It had an Asian etaclone 2836 and a pretty good dial. It seems that a few 5512/13/1680 from this last batch came with SD bezels and you will not know until it arrives. So...imho, the bottom line for an MBW case for a 1680 project using a rolex 1570/75 vs a Yuki case would be 60/40 in favor of the Yuki case for these reasons: 1...Yuki case is oem spec. 2...You get the correct bezel. 3...The Yuki case needs no modification. 4...The Yuki case has proper letters and numbers. Downside...no dial or movement. MBW disadvantages when using it for a 1680 with 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial...if you count the cost of having an MBW case modified to accept a 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial, you will probably need to spend an additional $50 to $100 and if it has the wrong bezel you are out an additional $50 to $100. Upside...lower buy-in and a movement/dial combo left over to sell. MBW watch vs Yuki case for Eta movement project...imho 60/40 for the MBW case only if it has the correct bezel and a good dial. But here's the catch...for a 5512/13 you probably need to put an Eta 2846 or something similar in it for a slower beat rate and the MBW dial might not be up to snuff. Add the cost of a 2846 etc and a dial and you are back in Yuki case $$ territory. MBW watch vs Yuki case for a 1680 project using a rolex 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial...Go for the Yuki unless you get a real deal on an MBK watch with the correct bezel and a good movement and dial to sell to help pay for the modifications to the case. DW 5513 and 1680 cases... These are all really 1680 spec cases (more or less) so if you have one with 5513 stamped on it, a 1520 and 26mm 5513 dial will mount up in the case but the dial is a bit too small for the dial window and will also be too far from the dial seat. What you end up with is a 26mm dial in a 26mm dial window with the dial mounted about .8mm below the dial seat and nothing holding the dial in place except the dial screws. I did make a very thin spacer out of aluminum to fill in the space on one DW '5513' but it took a long time to make the spacer in a lathe because it was so thin and flimsy. I had to finish it up in an old 8mm WW type 'bezel chuck' made in the 1920s. WW = regular watchmaker lathe. 'Bezel chuck' = a chuck that looks like a steel wheel with concentric grooves cut in it. It will expand or contract a few mm to accommodate small, thin bezel rings etc. DW cases are a low $$ alternative to expensive 'genspec cases' but you will need a genspec bezel kit, crystal, tube, crown etc. Also...as I have mentioned many times before, the DW cases have rounded case sides like a DJ and not flat like a submariner. They could be sanded flat on a disc grinder or by hand but it would take a lot of careful work. One good thing about the rounded case sides is they make the watch look like an old 'high mileage' example with a storied history after they get sufficiently scuffed up. I have seen a few genuine 1680/5512/13 with the case sides rounded from years of wear and numerous polish jobs so there are genuine examples with rounded case sides in circulation. 3-23-21: Yuki, DW (David Wong), and MBW/MBK cases are no longer available so now it is Ruby, Phong and a few others selling cases with Ruby's probably being less expensive. Once in a while one of the Yuki, MBW/MBK, DW cases may show up for sale here but not often. Note 2-26-16...I tried a genuine 7mm crown on an MBK 5512 I got last week and it will not work because the case tube in the MBK case is not oem spec and the post on the genuine crown will not go into the MBK case tube...the hole in the tube is too small. The MBK tube is made to have an O ring down low outside and the crown does have the skirt machined at the bottom for O ring clearance but of course none of it is oem spec. On my other MBK cases, I removed the case tubes as soon as I worked on them and installed aftmkt oem spec case tubes (did not try any genuine oem crowns) and the oem spec case tubes screwed right in but iirc the relief in the case for the case tube base gasket (where the tube contacts the case) was not oem spec and I had to use an aftmkt gasket of some sort. The MBK crown will not screw down onto an oem spec case tube either because the MBK crown threads are too small. The MBK tube and crown look like the same case tube and crown set that came on some of my DW cases. The MBK case tube is made like an old 8mm tube except for the size. Note 10-6-16...IF the case neck is oem spec 28.2mm and IF you need a new bezel assembly...here is what I found (usually) works: GS PA 462-66 crystal and ST/Clark etc bezel kit IF the ID of the inner bezel is 30.2mm. The 28.2mm case neck and 30.2mm inner bezel will not crack the crystal when pressing it on because it is not a real tight fit on the crystal while at the same time the crystal will not pop off or leak in day to day service (although I have not tested one below about 5 atm/70 psi). GS crystals are precision made and always the same spec unlike much of the inconsistent junk scattered all over the internet. The PA 462-66 is a domed crystal that has the sidewall coming straight up about 1.7 to 2.0mm above the bezel insert. You also have to make sure the bezel washer does not cause the rotating bezel to bind. The washer needs to fit over the small lip on the inner bezel (if there is one, it is there to keep the sharp washer away from the crystal) while not sticking out over the outer edge of the inner bezel or it will bind the rotating bezel. Many (if not most) aftmkt bezel washers are out of spec in my experience. I have tried this same setup with a GS PA 462-67 crystal and the inner bezel was too tight. Also measured a couple MBK inner bezels and they were both 30.15mm id...not much difference but they can be pretty tight with the GS PA 462-66 crystal. Matter of fact, I broke a new PA 462-66 with a MBK inner bezel on an MBK case a few days ago. It leaked and I had to look down through the outer edge of the crystal with a 10x loupe under bright light to see the hairline cracks. I found that ST/Clark rotating bezels will accept oem spec inserts and they snap in correctly...many aftmkt inserts and insert seats in bezels are out of spec. More DW case info: DW 55xx case review... - The Rolex Area - RWG

I’ve just wrapped up (for now) another one of my ongoing projects - a 1680 Red Submariner. Inspired by some of the mid-70’s versions I’ve seen on Chrono24, etc I imagine this was a fairly well care-for watch serviced several times with a replacement, service dial and insert. Case isn’t too beat up and isn’t over-polished. The specs on the project: - JK Factory Case, Caseback, 93250 Bracelet, Open 6/9 Datewheel and Dial (purchased from TrustyTime) - Clark’s 25-127 Crystal - WSO Bezel Assembly - Athaya 702 Tube and Crown - WSO 580 Endlinks - Sellita SW-200-1 Movement - Raffle’s Time Hand Set I relumed the hand set, pearl, and dial to match. Pearl was lumed then finished with clear coat of binder for durability and gloss. Like my other vintage project, I went for a vintage tone lume a high-intensity, green glow. Insert has been very lightly bleached, just enough to eliminate the gloss finish. Crown guards have been squared off in the front, case was lightly aged via a tumble in a bag of screws, all exposed edges were eased, and case was repolished. Athaya tube installed with Blue Loctite and tube hole countersunk to ensure tight fit of crown when screwed down. SW200-1 was purchased from a fellow member but needed the keyless works to be repaired. I repaired the keyless works then installed H5 second wheel, minute cannon, and hour cannon along with a date wheel from an ETA2836-2. Dial was fitted with a slightly thicker dial spacer. This modification allowed me to fit the slimmer SW200-1 into a case designed for an ETA2836-2 while maintaining stem alignment. Everything has been installed as friction fit, gaskets sealed and siliconed. Bracelet has been minimally aged. Sometime in the future I will likely swap out the DW Overlay and Dial for better quality. Working with a Ruby’s Watch dial on my 1675 project, the quality difference is super obvious. I should also get around to doing a water resistance test - I’d like to know how water resistant I’ve built this. I honestly worry the most about the crown tube since I countersunk the top edge but otherwise feel good about things. Here’s some pics, thanks for looking!

Cool retro-replica! I have a few 'Paul/Abay' watches. I hear everyone saying...Yawn, so what? So...here is some of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (imho): The Good: The case neck is oem spec so oem spec crystals and bezel kits will work. The HEV is oem spec but the leaf spring is weak. The dial seat is 29.3mm so it will take a variety of large OD dials. The case tube threads are oem spec. Some had pretty good hollow mid link bracelets with the 'prototype' clasp. Spring bar holes are usually located so there is room to drill them out without being too close to an edge (very important imho). Very good overall quality except for the bezel fiasco. The Bad: Crystal is glued to the case and the bezel is either glued over the crystal (will not turn) or the bezel has a spring wire mounted in it that goes in the space between the top of the case and the 'short skirt' crystal...the crystal is glued on but the bezel turns. The case back gasket groove is in the case, not the case back like oem 5512/13/14/1680. It does not matter. After all, the genuine 1665 gasket groove is in the case. The dial opening is a hair too big (26.0mm) for oem spec 5512/13/14 dials. Works Ok with 1680 spec dials. Will not accept a rlx 1530 base movement...case ID is too small. Never tried hogging one out to oem spec. 'Batman' crown guards are too big. The Ugly (according to genuine watch forums): The fk'r wearing it. Hee Haw! The Paul/Abay 1665 used the same exact case as their 55xx/1680 except for the HEV. "...go "stealth" pre-COMEX." Pre-COMEX!

Very nice result! You have the bones there to drape some really nice skin over. If it was me, I'd clean up the CGs and then find a logo-less dial and engraved caseback to go "stealth" pre-COMEX. That's the one gaping hole in my collection and you're most of the way there.

I think he’s been practicing here. We’ve had a great summer, I am actually white right now, rather than the traditional Scottish light blue skin tone. [emoji23] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Conquered the folded link adjustment🤣 Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Love it! Way cool! [emoji41] Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Well everything is bigger in the States. A touch of hypo on the case back and you can probably even get away without a mid case

"So, the Cartel 1680 isn't even worth looking at for less than $150? What are the issues?" They are hit or miss in specs and overall quality. Most are made for Eta 28xx or Asian '21 jewel' movements, not rolex. Some are oem spec as far as case neck etc and will accept ST/Clark oem spec bezels, crystals etc but some are out of spec. Most have the correct case tube threads but the cases may not be machined for oem gaskets between the case tube and case. "Yuki said 1680 case is discontinued, though Ruby has them for $650 (ouch). If one were willing to drop $650 on the Ruby, what's needed to get a 2846 working? Spacer? And will an overlay solve the ETA datewheel location issue?" Iirc a Yuki 1680 was that much or more up until they were discontinued. Their 5512/13 cases were $600 each in mid 2014 with random serial numbers, special s/n were more. They discounted $50 each on two cases when I got a 5512 and a 5513 at the same time so it made them $550 each. The cases were top quality. An Eta 2846 is smaller in diameter than a rolex 15xx so any case made for a rolex movement will need a special spacer. DWOs come in different versions so you will need to zero in on one that suits you and track one down. They are a pain imho...hard to index/glue down over the original DW, then you will have to be sure there is enough room between the DWO and dial, next you have to make sure the hands mount far enough away from the dial...if not you will need a taller hour wheel, CP, center sweep pinion, hour wheel etc. And on and on... A 5512/13 project is much easier. "I like the idea of using an MBW, but they're hard to come by and when they do, the Ruby case is a small jump in $$ more." True. Since the last batch of MBK watches were over $400, an empty case will probably be that much by now. I posted some info about MBK cases at the top of the rolex section in the stickies. "The winding crown is too low on the Cartel cases and they are far too thick. They are pretty much all the same case, so 1680 is actually a 5513 and the dial opening is too small, so won’t take the good aftermarket 1680 dials if I remember correctly." Same with MBK...they are 1680 spec cases with a 5513 spec dial window. They are not overly thick though and the quality is first rate. Free advice: Find something inexpensive that you like and buy it now to wear while you go through the long drawn out process of putting a project watch together. It may take a few months...or a year. This is not meant to discourage anyone, it is just a word of advice from someone who has been around the block. Example...my '1655' project has been on/off for 5+ years. Why? Because GMT part$ are expensive and hard to find. Looks like someone else found this out the hard way, a 1575GMT rolex movement just went for $3600 on eBay: ROLEX GMT MASTER MOVEMENT Ref. 1570/1575 for GMT MASTER 1675 Explorer II, 1655 VINTAGE MOVEMENT / Fully Serviced / Sold AS IS eBay item number: 163171371202 Ended: Aug 06, 2018 , 10:29PM Winning bid: US $3,600.00 Shipping: $50.00 Expedited Shipping

Sunshine in Scotland! Global warming is getting serious. How far has Elon got with terraforming Mars?

Welcome Aaron. Like you I came from the gen world only a few months back to find some reps so I didn’t lose the house, wife and daughter. Great people here who are willing to help you all the time so enjoy. Oh and I don’t believe you sorry, wristie confirmation please?!! Sunny Scotland [emoji848] haha that’s a good one. Sent from me

Hello Aaron, good to see you here mate. I hope you don’t come to regret me corrupting you🤣 You know how to reach me if I can help anytime, in the meantime don’t be afraid to join in on current threads

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Pulling a Fuller I see👍

Thanks for the kind words! Added 2-14-17 Fitting bezels on 5512/13/1680 etc: 1...If you plan to do much crystal fitting, you will need a precision digital caliper, not a $12.99 cheapo, a good one...if you do not have one already. 2...Measure the OD of the crystal after it is pushed down on the case neck...write it down. Measuring a loose crystal is usually not going to give an accurate measurement. 3...Measure the ID of the inner (crystal retaining) bezel...write it down. 4...The inner crystal retaining bezel needs to be around .1mm to .2 mm smaller than the crystal (measured on the watch). 5...Use a heavy duty bezel press with metal dies if possible, plastic dies are usually too flimsy. You will soon develop a 'feel' for proper fit. Mine is an old Japan made 'BB' press from way back and now reproductions are available at 'affordable' prices. Here are BB styles with tapered and straight wall dies and you can find these presses at reasonable prices if you look around. The second listing has a much better price. http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product12034.html http://collectionsmall.stores.yahoo.net/wacaprcrprwi.html Here is a cheapo model that might be Ok: https://www.amazon.com/Watch-Crystal-Press-Watchmaker-Repair/dp/B000RB3HRU The frame is probably made out of 'pot metal'. BB type bases are made out of cast iron. The general rule is cheapo tools = broken parts....but not always. Imho... Genuine crystals are over rated, especially on project watches. I have used GS crystals for 40 years and never had any problems and their crystals for vintage no date submariners come in 4 or 5 sizes. Sternkreuz are Ok too but sometimes not a precision fit. Like I said many times before...when you find a crystal that fits...buy 3 of them. Many no name 'internet' crystals are out of spec, sometimes from one batch to the next. Many no name internet bezel kits are not too hot either. The better sets come from Clark, watchman408 (on eBay) and ST in my experience. Better = they fit.

Learnt a ton from this thread. Must read for all vintage fans.