alligoat

Thanks Ronin, it's certainly one of my favorite watches. I think of it as a poor man's Daytona, but it also has the day-date which I like in a watch. At first I liked the orange/red hands and markings on the tachymeter scale, but they also make it with just black markings, a little more subtle. Thanks Freddy for the DJ suggestion. May get out the calipers and study it a little more. JMB would be another option, have him fab up one. But for now I'm just going to enjoy the watch, get it serviced, maybe swap out the subdial hands. WM#2 said he had to broach the SD hands, sound familiar?

The movement is a Landeron, maybe 148 or 248, but definitely Landeron. Chances of it fitting in a Tudor case would be slim. Tudor used Valjoux movements, V23, 7734, 7750.

Certainly one of my favorite watches is the 6238 chronograph. Early on I purchased one from Angus and it did OK for a 1-1/2 yrs or so. Then I sent it off to Ziggy for a service and it's been solid ever since. It's on the right. At the same time I purchased a few V72 chronos like this Heuer on the left. This is a pre-Carrera model- late 50's, early 60's, pre 1964. Notice the assymetrical pushers- a V72/23 trademark. So my goal was to build a 6238 w/ the V72 movement, but until a year or so ago, a case wasn't available. Phong came up with one, but it was pricey- $1500+. But prior to that I had bought a V72 6239 case, etc. from DW. I had hoped to swap in a bezel from a CN 6238 rep, but that didn't work- typical rep story- chinese engineering means nothing is the correct size. So then I figured maybe a 6239 case and bezel with a 6238 dial and the V72 movt. Since I actually had two of the Heuer pre-Carrera chronos, I had my donor movement. I had also bought a Wittnauer V72 and a Wyler V72, but I liked them so much I didn't want to tear into them- I even bought another NOS Wittnauer dial for restoration. But my watchmaker couldn't fit the Heuer movement in the DW 6239 case. What to do next? So I sat on it for over a year- patience??? Anyway, at the last Houston GTG, a guy Daytona Dragon told me about another watchmaker that was very good at building watches. In the meantime I'd had my Heuer serviced and took all my parts down to this watchmaker. He looked at it and a week later told me it wouldn't fit. Around this time I was talking to ubi and he told me what the problems were that he had had with a DW case in building his 6263/5. So I went to see my watchmaker and he told me that he figured that the Heuer plates were too big for the DW case and that was why it wouldn't fit in the DW case. The Heuer chrono is big- 38mm case. I'd brought along the Wittnauer on the off chance it might work- the case was small- 35.4mm. so I gave him the Wittnauer and said 'let's give it a try'. A few days later I got a call and he said it would work. Here it is on a gen 78350 w/ 571 ends: When I had ordered the DW 6239, it was the silver dial w/ black subdials. I never checked the subdial hands, but they are white! They're not correct, but I kinda like them. Needless to say, I have a black set on order. I'd never serviced the Wittnauer, so it's back to watchmaker #1 for a service. WM#2 said the minute counter wheel was kinda shot, so I may be ordering another one from Blake at ScotchWatch. I've got a couple of other chronos which are very similar to the Rolex 6238/9. Here's a Baylor I picked up for maybe $300- it's got a Landeron 248 movt and a 24 hr world bezel- nice silver dial, similar to the older Rolex aged silver dials A couple of years ago I picked up this Sinn 303 Silber. Of all the watches I own, this is hands down the most accurate- to within seconds a month! Guilloched silver dial which looks almost beige- WR to 200m/660ft. Certainly a great value- I paid $1550, 2-3 years ago. It is a 'fine tuned' 7750! Oh, what got me going again on the transitional 6238/9 was a watch I saw on VRF. It's a 6238 with a 6239 bezel! It's a Peruvian Air Force watch! It's redundant, but beautiful!

It has a 2834-2 with the old style DW- open 6's and 9's. It's a noob case w/ drilled lugholes, ziggy relumed matte dial, WM pearl, a gen crown and tube and a gen 93150 w/ 593 end pieces.

I fall in the middle. One of my first purchases was a Watchmaster Red Sub and I had the notorious RBJ do a few mods since I was just getting into reps. Then I bought a 1680 white sub gen. But the plasic crystals on these are a little too delicate for my rough and tumble world. Next I got the 16800 matte dial gen in my avatar and built the 16800 franken. Finally I ran across a good deal on a 16800 gen with a later tritium dial and hands which still glow- '98-99 replacements??. The latest 16800 has become my beater. Here's the matte dial 16800's gen left, franken right The beater 16800 still has decent lume and the sapphire crystal takes more abuse than the plastic, gen 16800 left, ETZ 16610 A serial on the right I've gotten the Dw on the ETZ fixed- centered, but I'm still working on the bezel- the ETZ bezel is too loose and prone to popping off!

The price isn't all that bad. I built a 5508 a few years ago, case and dial from NDT, and I spent around $2,500 putting it together myself. But darn, the lugs are too fat, IMO. I guess I have to get around to thinning them down! Like Nanuq says, there's always shortcomings to these frankens. It say,'Movement is in good condition'- was it serviced or is it just working? The bezel pearl needs to go- no metal on the vintage pearls! There's always something- but heck, it's a rep franken, it'll never be perfect. Seems like Yuki had a 7922 or 7924 Tudor big crown for around $1100. If you like Tudors, that could be a less expensive alternative.

I agree with KBH, just buy yourself a swiss eta noobmariner and save the extra money. Noobs are generally pretty WR right out of the box, but get it checked out by your watchmaker and go from there.

+1

My preference is the matte dial w/ maxi markers! Gloss dial with WG surrounds came in around 1984, same as the 16800 and 16660.

The dial is fine, I just don't know if it would command a premium price or not. I wouldn't bother changing it.

It's a plastic crystal and can be polished or replaced fairly easily. Can't remember if it's a 135 or 145 crystal.

VRF- vintage rolex forum is a good place- they have a marketplace for sales. I figure this watch is worth $1500US give or take. It looks fine, don't know if the dial would help get a better price or not. Retail price could run $2000-2250. Service in 2005 means it could be due again for another service.

The dial is worth $50 or so. The case appears to be chinese, somewhat wokky rehaut, maybe $50-75 with the bracelet.

Here's an 80-81 5513 that I ran across on VRF with a 702 tube/crown

Interesting LH. The Dw 6238 case certainly does have an unsightly growth at the case tube area. I just looked at a 6239/7750 case on the bay from DW and it appears to have the same crown area bulge http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230512529983&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT I'm off to see my watchmaker today and will check the older 6239 DW case which I have- hope there's no bulge! My watchmaker says he can fit the Wittnauer V72 in there, so I hope to be proceeding with my 6238/9 transitional.

Some of the dealers like Josh and Puretime (I believe) have a new model of the 1655 which is pretty nice. It comes in eta and asian 21j movements, yellowed or white markers (I prefer white myself), folded link bracelet and is a very nice watch for the price. http://www.1-pc8838.com/00rlex00104-vintage-explorer-1655-ssss-asian-2813-p-8989.html This looks like a very nice watch out of the box and might not even require mods. 5512's are a little tougher. To get a decent one, you're probably going to have to get an MBW and then you are looking at some mods to make it better. Drill the lugholes trim the crown guards install a better bezel insert Other mods can also be done, gen crown and tube, correct bracelet (93150 w/ 580 ends), and some gentle aging to make it look like a 40 year old watch. But first step is to get the watch and then you can proceed with the mods from there. And above all, keep reading and learning- it doesn't happen overnight!

I've got the cartel 6238 from Josh and one from Angus-Puretime- the Angus one was more accurate. Both have the asian 7750 and the 36-37mm case. Haven't seen the 6238 from DW yet- but with assymetric pushers and a cartel dial and an asian 7750, it could be pretty decent. If DW has the smooth 6238 bezel, you could mate that with the 6239 V72 case and make a nice V72 6238. So far, this is about as close as I can come- a transitional 6238/6239 with the 6238 dial and 6239 case However, I haven't built this watch yet because I can't fit the V72 in the 6239 case- this is a common problem with the DW cases.

Bending the click spring sounds like a good idea to me. The gen 16800 I'm wearing today has no play- it clicks forward, with no back play.

With the case back opener- 29.5mm size, a screwdriver and a spare case clamp, it should be an easy fix. You shouldn't even have to remove the crown and stem, just remove the case back and install the new case clamp- hopefully you still have the screw, check to make sure the dial is centered and tight in the case and close it back up. Oh, you might want to loosen up the other case clamp and then tighten them both up once the dial is centered. It's an easy fix if you have a spare case clamp.

Nice review, M! Thanks.

I think the pearl looks pretty good myself. Metal pearl surrounds came around with the 16800 and 16660SD. The first 16800's and 16660's had matte dials w/ no metal surrounds. Around 1984 the dials where changed from matte dials to the modern style with white gold surrounds and gloss dials- which is the current dial also.

I agree with this as does freddy- in fact freddy was the one that pointed out watchbandman to me as being in the Faisel group a few years ago. There is another seller on ebay who sells these TT bracelets- unmarked. Around $350-400, can't find them right now, maybe used to go by the name Miss Caroline, or something like that. Like BT says, maybe a decent plated bracelet from BK.

I would think around 1980. But you see 1665's into the early 80's- late as 83- but the 16800 always had the 703 crown and it came out late 79/early 80, AFAIK. Don't know if those late 1665's and 5513's had 702's or 703's- but you would think 703's since it's a logical upgrade and we know they are used in servicing.

You might search around- I recall seeing this watch posted last month, maybe runs around $1100US. But I think it should be a 390 movement to be correct. Still it's not a bad franken. Could definitely use some aging though.

I'm with chefcook on this, it works. I did glue the insert in to the bezel though.