lanikai

You bring up valid points.. the committee would not be in palce to "force" dealers to do anything.. but to be a knowledgable group to support the members greavenses with products... With any thing of high volume, errors and mistakes will be made ... the group would be in place to "help" correct these areas.. not so much to strong arm dealers.. (for lack of a better word) ... if we all are here to effect change for the better then we need to work toward a common goal.. win .. win .. not so much "ban" anyone One point is if RWG will not allow dealers to advertise... i hope this is for the safety of the members as well as the dealers .. then TJ you may have to think about the link you have trying to advertise in the negative about J & A.. just a thought... it has to work both way's If someone were to ask you where you got a particular watch from ... it sounds like it would be OK to say so... but to say "i don't buy from so and so because of....." that would be conflict. the main thing is to be autonomous with the RWG and dealers ... that would be the only way to really look at things objectively ... what you do in your personal buy's is your personal business and if someone were to ask where you got it ... they are soliciting from you a item... but if we.. (I ould rather use plural) were to say buy only from these certain dealers then we are a cartel ourselves.. We all know not all watches are checked out by the dealers every time... some fall between the cracks ..... some makers are better at quality control than others.... so when the committee adresses this it will be with the customers pics and"proof' of purchase and what ever documentation goes along with it... again it will be up to the group to deem it a legitamant grip ... how many times does the picture look better than the actual watch ?.. well this should not be grounds for a greavance... because the forum is here to ask and get opinions from all the members whom ever chairs this group should be rotated every so often ... Roberts Rules of order would be a start... again i am just thinking aloud here. willingness to do this is a great start.... the issues would have to be worked out .. for sure... if I got a watch that didn't have any thread on the lugs and I tried all I could to communicate with the dealer.. and I was told to "live with it" ... well that would certainly be unacceptable ... there is one maker who had a rash of this defect... dy friends here in Hawaii had different dealers.. all of them corrected the problem... but what if one didn't .. You see TJ i am trying to find a solution that will benefit everyone... we don't need to fight in house.... because in essence what we are doing in buying these is just as illegal ... or we wouldn't worry about the big C .. and i will go on buying from my dealer or dealers and you will go on buying from yours.... we find solutions and not dwell in the problem I got my very first REP from thailand.. when a friend went there.. 127 with the Russian movement.. about 3 years ago maybe less... 35.00 usd ..it's on the site of many dealers... 188.00 .. still keeps great time that is my everyday work beater. but do you know how much 20.00 will get you in Thailand... (directed to the men) .. you can live like a king for under 40 usd that includes a nice hotel... etc, anyway let's keep this dialogue open .. maybe start another thread with this "project in mind" .. and ask for positive input.. I think this is headed in the right direction.. Lanikai

how do we know that Joshua and Andrew and the other 2 main dealers are the end all of this so called cartel ... they maybe just one spoke in the wheel think about it what factions run illegal gambling? so you think the dealers are raking in the profits or do they have bigger fish to answer to. WE DO NOT KNOW AND TO ASSUME WOULD BE TAKING A LOT FOR GRANTED.. As i said earlier .... yes I have been lied to by car dealers ... even the luxury dealers ... same thing ... sales is basiclly BS It is really up to the consumer to be aware of the pit falls of doing business .... some of my friends by their reps out of L.A. .... they brag on how cheap it is...150.00 usd.. so i ask if it's a "working chrono"... uhh,... NO they say, ... does the bezel turn? .... uhh ... NO they say what i spend is too much.... so 150 usd more for a "working chrono" is too much... yet they pay 150.00 for a "fake" OOOOOKKKAYYY.... TeeJay ...... i really think a ad hoc commitee would suit the membership well.. some parameters have to be worked out.. the consumer must try every avenue first don't knit pick the small stuff ...tiny bit of dust on the dial.. We do not represent RWG in any way or form.... RWG's name cannot be used when addressing dealers we are autonomous and are a member to member group we do not recommend nor endorse any one dealer or group of dealers.... we have no opinion as a committee on who you buy from our sole purpose is to support and help members that have run into problems with their dealers about their watches ... and the dealers have not resolved the issue after the buyer has acted in good faith if mediation is necessary all resolutions or failures wil be noted and the rest can be tweaked as the system grows the buyer will be responsible for all postage and the mediation committee will not be liable for any cost incurred... I seriously request that people with experience and time on this board give this a serious chance ... not that we need to keep anyone 'honest' but i think it will work out better than trying to destroy what we all love.... the watches thank you , Lanikai

The Cartel as everyone speaks of .... with direct "ties" to the makers or if you want,..... factories .... are expected to move a certain amount of product .. they seem to take their marching orders at times from the powers that be (the makers?) (and since this is an illegal business what factions are behind the factories .. are the dealers sworn to secrecy?)... do we know who is behind the "factories" where the real capital needs to be invested? do the dealers invest their own capital into this ... is it venture capital that started this? they can advise the makers on what will sell ... and in turn the makers would say ...OK, I want 1000 units of this watch sold or commited to by the dealers...my fantasy watch .. a Ti 199 ... but I am sure it is not made because of the small amount of units it would sell ... (that's just my opinion) The huge auto makers fix their prices .. don't they? ... you ever see a dealership that was 100% honest?.. or that did not overcharge...? whenever I buy a "rep" i have a mind set that I will have to have it modded for it to be 99% accurate .. or close to that number...ie. crown, date wheel, lume colour and glow,.. etc. etc. ... not just what the horologist can do with the lume.. so i am really nicely surprise to see some watches look the way they do out of the box .... i figure i have to spend about the same as i did for the watch with a quality modder .. or a Horologist .. Ziggy falls into this catalog for me.... Now I maybe need to ammend my statement that I am alway's 100% happy with the watches i receive ... no i am not alway's .... but I am realizing which makers are better than others ..and i don't fault the dealers for my unhappiness with the watches .... these are Replicas.. iknow and as i have stated to both dealers in question.... I am not buying a Rep. ... I am buying a watch .. for these prices .. so i do not expect parts to fall off when i receive it. ..... that's my expectations to them.. Yes, Joshua has said they are not perfect .. mistakes are made ... he tries his best to correct mine.... it is a give and take .. In the future .. may i suggest the members creating a fact finding team... 1. a member who is disatisfied with his or her purchase(not because of estetics), faulty movt.no lug holes etc. and has exhausted every avenue of communication with the dealer .. contact this commitee. 2. If the committee deems that the member has a legitimate grip .... this cannot be after the fact.. ie. i threw the watch away.. cause i was pi___ I sold it for XXX... and most important.. proof of purchase from the dealer in question ...... 3.the committee would then contact the dealer ... the rest is self explanitory.. If the members of the RWG are here to protect scams .. rip offs etc. then let's do something constructive about it ... trying to convince everyone not to buy or to buy from someone else ... well that's sort of conflict of interest .... etc. TeeJay.... I commend you on your presentation of your posts .... you have presented it in an educated way .. and kept control .. thank you ... this topic is emotion driven and many times can get out of hand .. we're all here for the same thing......BUYING and finding way's to share our experiences.... who can we do this with except each other ... we are like the ... excuse my terminology ... bastard children getting together..when we cannot hang with the Genuine crowd... we could but may not feel like sharing what we do here... then we cannot be ourselves..because I do not buy REPS to try and FOOL anyone ... but we have all found a place that we can talk freely about them and get help improving them. So ... I think a group of verteran members would do well with this...... we have sssurfer Tech..... Kruzer= veteran tech expert ... kinda everything.... Teejay .... Pug ..... ET ALL .... the list goes on and on... Just my 1 cent Lanikai

thanks avitt... i'll try that myself

just to add to TT lexol post... the PH balanced "cleaner" ... i have used this on MP straps .. it does darken the lighter hides a little but that dissaptes with time and the leather was cleaned nicely...someone got a little pen ink on a Bently leather seat once and a shoe maker turned me on to an old trick... get a q-tip and lightly coat it with hair spay and really lightly work the ink stain..... it came right out

THIS is your choice to make for yourself... we all need to make the same decisions for ourselves ... your right as a consumer and also mine..

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it doesn't look that bad actually... does your finger nail catch in it if you scrap your little finger over it? get 00 and 000 grit sand paper at the hardware stoe.. (wet sandpaper) ... mix some dish soap with water .. this will allow the sandpaper more ease .. get a disposable chopstick... use the fat flat end.. take enough sand paper to cover half the sick .... you can also use the round area of the stick also... use the dish water freely soak the sand paper for a while to get it to fit the stick better take your time use the 00 first then change to the 000 grit... watch boys on ebay sells the brush pen to refinish the area and blend in when your done .. I would take you step by step with pics.. just got another memory card for my cannon.... but i am going to sleep soon .. so give it a try and good luck PM me if you need to.. maybe next time leave it off while you train.. there are some guy's that wear their rolex at the gym... but these are the "posers".. they don't really train hard... but their wrists look good lanikai

I thought the blue was nice... then i got the black ... now... gotta get the white

Aloha mai Jiro, my brothers middle name is Jiro W..e..l..c..o..m..e Lanikai ................. LIVE STRONG AND WEAR IT WELL

I guess emotions run high G... there really is no right or wrong here because it's everyones own personal opinion that's at stake.... I'm not denying what happened with J & A over the BR .. what I am requesting ... is "we" should refraine from lowering ourselves to trying to "hurt" each other with "names" ... i guess i can say this cause i just came home from the gym and pretty much left it all there.... For .."the good of all" senario aside and without trying to get too cerebral ..... why can't we all choose for ourselves ?? and yes .. point taken about my 300 post versus more ... i understand how you feel... not speaking for Madame V. I'm sure she meant no one harm .... emotions were high at the time.... i dunno maybe better to vent here than in traffic Yes? and you must admit Miss V's vocabulary is intense so if she were to pay me a compliment ... using a million $ word I may get offended ...LOL ...

I don't know what you're refering to giorgio .... all i am trying to accomplish is to stop this "Name calling" if you will .... it's just as bad as being racist.... what does it really accomplish..... I'm reading Teejay's thoughts now and I can actually read them without all the verbs that are uncalled for ... don't you think we could have a better .. dicussion ... debate if we didn't call anyone names..... you little [censored] ?? .... just joking G..... couldn't help that one... now your turn

I started with Joshua in June of 06 ... then i was lured away by so called better deals.... lower prices ... I need to add i never had problems with the watches from joshua.. i was just trying to get better deals.... long story short I lost more money because of defective watches and no customer service after the buy.... so what am i really saving by buying for what 50 bucks less??? Joshua and Andrew for me at least .. and i am sure for countless others have alway's made good my purchase ... and that's why i came back to buying from them

did I miss anything... had to use the john.... geez come home from the gym and you guy's have 4 pages already... nothing like different opinions to start the tantrums all over again.... Johua and andrew if your reading this ..... ..... ...

?And to add to that, do you suppose that some of these .. makers ... workers ... dealers want to turn a profit ??????????? wow .... you THINK ???

: : You have made this a better place ... and what does time have to do with "this" ... quality !!!!!

"this is my issue with A&J" You just said a mouth full TJ. .. it is "your" issue why do you want to try and ram it down my throat ? does not seem like you are going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours... that's ok ....your choice.... my choice ... simple others "choices" too

ok we all said we weren't going to say anything more right guy's... and gal (singular, but you are the best V) the most important item of ALL.... who's going to be able to get it out past customes in china where the watches come from and not take 6 to 8 weeks to get it here by Yak.... if it can leave the country at all Now I am waiting on the usual.... "you idiots aren't listening".. tantrum.. senario..... ... must be nap time for the kids ... either that or mommy gave them a time out... Ok that's all I have to say on this matter.......NOTTTT Joshua and andrew if you are reading this... no worries .. you are loved here at the RWG

I do believe this statement has been said time and again and has worn out it's welcome this IS NOT THE TOPIC

thanks sssurfer I'll have to remember to do that when i type a long winded note

OK... so the hypotesis of J.. and ...A merging what negative or postive will it have on the Rep. industry as a whole ?there are models or different parts that Joshua has that Andrew doesn't ... does it make good business sense to merge capital?? Makes more sense to me to keep seperate and have items that are exclusive and seperate from each other (??) although small differences in parts and pricing gives the customer the illusion that he is getting what he wants, and wants to pay for the item.. seems like this is going on for a long time already... andrew with the less expensive models in some areas and Johua with the higher end parts (models)..ie.036 .. maybe it's like showing one hand and playing another... rather smart if you ask me.. you want to call it .. bait and switch... goes on all the time... the consumer should realize this and play his hand accordingly I think this is a practice not only in this business but throughout the world ... it's part of free enterprise .. no one can control it .. as a consumer we either buy or don't buy.

I was refering to the orange dial... but there is somehting to be said of the 06 being less "busy", and if anyone has the time I would like to hear the "story " behind it.. the 07 is supposed to be out in late sept. but I ordered the blue dial .. thanks to the pics everyone has been posting... kept coming back for another look, really a good looking pc. ... so i just went ahead and ordered it..

I really am sorry that you have such a linear approach to ALL matters Slay,....I, was relating "my" experiences not "yours" with Joshua and Andrew... I am not disputing the fact that Joshua and Andrew Lied, ... you NEVER LIED IN YOUR LIFE?? to your wife girlfriend.. whomever ?? and if all you can do is "LOOSE" control of yourself .. and resort to utter and meaningless diatribes (look it up genius), using such original words as .. Retarded and dumb .... it seems like your vocabulary is very thought out, either that or you just revert to being very crude because a civilized debate is not in the relm of your gray matter.. and you don't have a clue as to what a discussion without the use of juvenille terms would be like... No I am not perfect , I make mistakes but at some point and time "ya gotta let it go" .. or end up bitter about life.... I would say you are accomplishing absolutely nothing by trying to destroy others because you cannot "let go" Let go and let God take care of it Slay... maybe it's time to stop "playing God", "you" don't have to buy watches from anyone you don't choose to... Are you paying for my watches that I purchase from Joshua and andrew ???? If the answer were yes then OK you can tell me what to do.... are you buying watches from Joshua? Is anyone forcing you to buy watches from a particular dealer? so my point is, let everyone decide on their own ... the last time I checked we were still a free society ... if I pay 30 dollars more at a store that gives me great after purchase service.... then that's my choice... we all have choices Slay.. so if you feel you cannot convince someone you are "debating" with it's sensless to go after that persons character because they don't agree with you... DEATH BY CHARACTER ASSASINATION ...... does it make you "feel" better about yourself? Now .... you can answer with a dialouge as long as "war and Peace" (pun intended)... but I think god gave us free will so we don't just follow the pied piper .... We're all different in this world that the internet has made infinately smaller.... learn and adopt... or perish in your own misery... the "choice" is yours and mine... OOppss there's that word again...CHOICE .... dang, keeps popping up huh ? Lanikai

I seriously just lost my appetite for lunch .. no really ... no thank you, I am taking a leave from hotdogs..no thanks ...not even the kosher ones..

I guess the best thing to do would be to choose for yourselves ... I will "choose" to stay with Joshua and Andrew ... it's starting to sound riiddicuuloouuss .... if you ever check out web sites in Japn .. they are pretty loved over there .. hambone ... I guess everyone needs a cause ... cause they have no other ... so let's just do what we do.. if there are people who want to junp on the band wagon ... we used to call them coat tale bitc--- ... then that's their choice .. let them have it... Joshua and Andrew have never proven to me otherwise... sure i get some bad watches .... law of averages... they alway's took care of it though ....so no need to spend needless energy .. not worth it and it makes no sense.. the dealers will go on with or without me ...and I'm sure go on with or without a few other also