RobbieG

Exactly Toad. That was the phrase that came to mind for me as well...

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't visit any other forums anymore. Made the decision for time managment reasons and hey, why not stick with the best , most experts, etc... That said, what are the numbers for RG and RWI in terms of total membership vs. daily actives vs. most logged in a day, etc. compared to us? I would like to see at least the rough breakdown on that. I also always wondered what makes people choose one over the other and/or if in most instances a noob just sticks with the first one he happens to stumble on? I came from TRC originally and obviously found the others through there, but called that home for a while. Then I went through a period where I hung out at RWI because I was getting bitten by the PAM bug. It didn't last long but at the time I felt there were more PAM experts over there. I checked out RG very briefly but didn't like it much. I think RG might have the youngest population maybe? Kinda seems that way. This leads me to yet one other question: By collective search engine positioning, which one of the three is easiest to find?

This happened a while back and I considered not posting it in the interest of annonymity and all, but I did decide to post it after all as I feel it is always good to tell great stories of above and beyond customer service. Besides, I make no attempt to hide my identity anyway. I never really got that actually. Yeah, I hang out on a rep forum. So what? I don't care who knows it really. I'm proud to be a member here as it is really just a great watch forum, not a rep watch forum IMO... Anyway, I was looking at one of my UN's a while back with a loupe and discovered a tiny cosmetic flaw. Really nothing much to notice at all. The next time I was at the AD I bought it from I showed it to the manager, not looking for anything to be done about it - really just a matter of conversation. But he is totally insulted by it and begs me to wait while he calls his guy at the company. The company asks him to urge me to send the watch in at once so they can correct the problem. I figure why not as I have plenty of other watches to wear. So I give it up and go about my day. Not three days later, my cell rings and it isn't the AD but someone at UN. Get this: he again apoligizes profusely for the flaw and informs me that when the watch hit the bench and the original problem was corrected another minor cosmetic flaw was discovered in the final quality control check this time around. This time in the movement. He also explained that the way they handle things is each movement gets matched up with a case and they don't like to mix and match them as it keeps future identification difficult. Pretty common on high end watches of course. Anyway, he says that it got passed to the master watchmaker and he didn't feel he could get it perfect so they were sending me an entire new watch gratis and would prefer to just keep mine in house for training so this doesn't happen again - if I agreed of course. Sure, new watch? Twist my arm. But keep in mind I had the original watch for almost a year! He informs me he is sending it out today with the highest priority and again apologizes and says it is just completely unacceptable and they have no excuse for such fumbling and dreadful quality control. The next morning sure enough, a brand new watch arrives by express carrier complete with all new warranty card reflecting the new serial number. I am still kicking myself though. I should have asked him to just send back the original watch untouched and instead offer me a UN Chronometer free of charge as an apology. Somehow I doubt that would fly though. Hey, a guy can dream can't he? Anyway, I just thought I would share that so people might have a better idea why I am such a fierce champion of the brand sometimes. They are like part of a small tribe. The last of the independent watchmakers where the owner is in the store and decisions aren't made with stockholders in mind, but rather based on the pride of some people trying to attain the highest level of excellence in horology. Somehow I doubt that would have happened if it were an Omega or Breitling. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, but probably not. It wasn't the gesture as much as it was the sincere personal effort that went into the discovery that makes me so proud to own the watch to this day.

And here is a pic of the original piece from 1921, originally patented and prototyped in 1919. The new homage is very similar - except being rose gold of course. Also of note is that the original crown was at "11" instead of "1" (of course I'm speaking of those positions on the case itself and not the dial as it is shifted) and the seconds were at 6 instead of 3 on the dial. The designers felt the watch more pleasing to read with the new configuration.

Yeah I meant to say 6498 obviously - seconds at 6 (which shifts to 3 with the wacky layout). It would still be bigger, but close enough. The 1921 has a fair sized spacer in it at 40MM with the 4400 in it actually. The movement is a perfect fit in the new Patrimony Traditionelle handwind though. Still a bit smaller than the 6497 though Andy - the 4400 is about 12.5% smaller at 28MM.

Yeah, that is why I'm leaning mostly toward not doing it at all. The thousand dollar rep escapes me I guess. I'm just trying to find something for the movement. I should probably just blow the movement out for cheap and be done with it - or keep it for parts.

I already did a BCE 7750 job and flipped it. As nice as the watch looks it pictures I came to loathe the design - the crown, the case shape, the bracelet. It wears very big - although I do prefer it on croc or calf to the bracelet. I much prefer the Avenger line, although I don't love those either. I also had a gen Fish for a bit and sold it for lack of wristime - to be fair though that was partly because it was blue dialed which doesn't go with alot of my wardrobe which is alot of black and earthtones. My fav Breitling is still the classic 41.8MM Navitimer. For something different a Blacksteel is in the running or a Porche Flat 6. I need to find out of the datewheels and rotors are backward compatable so I can sawp both from the Asian movement over. From there the hands just have to be done and that is it. Hopefully someone can confirm that for me. The broach job isn't so bad on the 7750's really, but you are right, the hands are not compatable...

I'm not so much into the Quai, but I get it. Back to the new Caliber 4400 movement though - it is a landmark Caliber for VC. A really well known independent watchmaker with gibs of unbiased respect tore down one of the first ones and said it was the finest base Caliber he has ever seen. Every piece is finished to the same level front and back. He did a series of pics where he took the movement apart in layers and you can hardly tell which side you are looking at! The underside edges of briges are even chamfered! In other words, the dial side is as nice as the caseback side! He also said they are the finest Geneva waves he has ever seen with really clean end strokes. It has a 65 hour power reserve from a simple single barrel setup as the movement is a good size. This is great too as most smaller base Calibers (like the VC 1400 for example) are made for 32MM watches and up. The result is funny looking casebacks with alot of spacers in them. Probably even more important is robustness. EVERY part is jeweled. Even ones that aren;t commonly jewled. The friction properties are amazing. A movement made to last a lifetime. If you notice, it is almost a 3/4 plate design. It retains the strenghth of that type of layout - more like classic Glashutte region style than Swiss - but by splitting the barrel bridge and wheel bridges up it sort of finds a happy medium of 3/4 plate robustness with a bit more ease of service. I don't have all those pics from that complete review but here are some...

+1000. Whether rep or gen and whether a hundred bucks or ten grand and everything in between the feeling is the same. We all feel it and that is why the OP belongs here. Watches have quickened our pulse way before we ever got here and the passion continues to this day. Congrats to the OP and welcome to the addiction of chasing that rush. You're f*cked now...

I doubt I'll do an EOD - not really much of a RO fan I'm afraid. I had a gen Millenary and that is the only thing AP that has ever moved me. World calss brand though quality wise so no offence. Just my personal taste. Anybody else know about DW being backward compatable and rotor with bearing being a straight swap or otherwise?

Yeah I hear yeah. I only meant to point out that Rolex white gold is a nice alternative to platinum and will look good and most importantly always look like that. One thing about precious metals though - and this phenomenon wouldn't affect BT with his taste aligned with braceleted sports watches: When you are dealing with sub 42MM strapped dress watches -even chronos, they just feel cheap and flimsy unless in gold or platinum. When you have a sports watch on a bracelet you actually welcome steel as it is heavy enough usually, but in a strapped smaller watch, the pieces just come alive with a little weight to them. A little story to illustrate: I had a beautiful Glashutte Panomaticreserve piece for a while and I liked the design and all but it just didn't feel right being steel. Hard to describe. Just light as a feather and felt like a toy. You just need that weight on a 39MM non-chrono strapped watch to let it be itself. The same watch in 950 gives me chills. I just jumped the gun and bought the wrong watch thinking it would be OK because I couldn't afford the platinum version. Lesson learned. A nice watch should feel like a well made, substantial item. That is one of the things that differentiates them from the cheap ones in the most basic sense. You all know how I am about feel, but man you could walk into a pawn shop in the deep south with some obscure brand that a non WIS would never know of. But if that watch is cheap or expensive when you hand it the guy behind the counter he is going to know right away just by touching it for five seconds. It is a very tactile thing that comes from a very non-WIS part of the brain. What I describe above is the same kind of thing except it just applies in this sense to smaller watches without bracelets. Sometimes you need precious metal to get that feel. But I'm with BT on anything larger than 42 and anything with a bracelet (DD's aside) in that steel is the only way to go as anything else is either a waste of money, too damn heavy, or both. Food for thought...

Cool strap Omni. Always nice to see something a little different.

That's an idea for sure - with a white dial maybe...

Thanks guys. A lot of times people kind of crap on 950 as being overly expensive and not worth the upgrade from SS or WG. But that is sort of unfounded. Of course cost is sometimes insurmountable for sure, but beyond that it is a real eye opener when you realize the advantages and looks it has over the other metals. It isn't just another white metal that isn't worth the money believe me. The only problem is most platinum watches are so unaffordable. The average cost of a platinum watch sold in 2008 was almost fifty thousand dollars. Of course a lot of that is because many platinum watches with many makers are only the special editions and high complications. On average though, they are at least 20% more than the gold versions when there is a choice. Personally, I would rather pay the upcharge from white gold to platinum, than pay the upcharge from steel to WG if I had a choice (and a big IF I could afford it). If a certain watch I loved came in both steel and white gold I would most likely just get the steel version. But if it came in only white gold or platinum, assuming I could afford it, I would get the platinum and pay the price without a doubt. It just looks so amazing in both states - especially if you have both brushed and polished surfaces. You can leave the polished a high gloss and let the brushed take on that wonderful greyish-white patina. Or if all polished both that and the super gloss look you can switch between from time to time. The onel exception to that rule is with Rolex. I would consider getting a white gold Rolex as theirs is just WAY superior to any other. It looks more like platinum almost and has no rhodium plating.

So I was with my girl today and she had taken a liking to a platinum watch I tried on (a pre-owned Lange 1 stealth) and was amazed by the cost. After I finished explaining that a good deal of the cost could be chalked up to the particular brand, she then identified another L1 in rose gold and noted that it was ten grand cheaper. With that, I shared some interesting facts about a very well known metal that many don't know much about. I realize much of this is already known to many here at RWG, but there are also many new members just entering our beloved hobby who might not. So in the spirit of education, which I feel is our greatest differentiating asset amongst the forums, here are a few interesting facts about the second most precious of metals... - The second most precious? Wait Robbie I thought platinum was number one. Nope. Rhodium, which is also found in platinum ores is technically more precious even though much more widely used. Chances are, the watch you have on right now has bridges plated in rhodium and/or your wife's or your white gold engagement ring is plated in it. It isn't used to make watch cases and braclets for two reasons: First is rarity and as such its cost. Total annual production is only 25 tons and on average it costs 8 times more than gold. Currently it is trading at around the same price of platinum and does fluctuate quite a bit, but in 2008 prices rose to over $10,000 and ounce and the recent averages are running over $4000 in recent years! The second reason is it has an extremely high melting point and poor malleability due to extreme hardness. As such it is used as a "brightener" for other white metals including white gold as opposed to a construction material. - Now that we got that out of the way, platinum is presented in jewelry as a 95% alloy typically. In other words, it is 95% pure platinum in contrast to gold which in the 18k variety used in watch cases is 75% pure. These are denoted on watch cases with a stamp or engraving with the numbers 950 and 750 respectively. The main reason for the purity of platinum alloys in jewelry is its high melting point. This allows the impurities to be easily melted away. Unlike gold it never tarnishes and never wears out. In fact, when scratched no material is even lost. It simply gets displaced. the metal actually moves out of the way to "make room" for the scratch! In contrast, when you scratch gold, material is more certainly lost, as it is when refinishing. It takes some training, but due to its hardness and purity, platinum watch cases can be restored to new condition with no signs of ever being repolished like gold. - Platinum stays naturally white throughout the years with no added maintenance. White gold, on the other hand, is simply yellow gold that has had other alloys added to it to make it appear white. In additon to those additives, white gold is most often rhodium-plated which is where it really gets it color from. Over time, platinum develops a natural patina that many people prefer over the "just polished" look. But as I said, it can always be repolished to give it the wet, high gloss look. If you compare white gold and platinum, you will see that platinum is really much whiter and the white gold might have a faint yellowish tinge - unless it is plated with rhodium to achieve the whiter look. But it is really amazing how yellow white gold is. You don't normally realize it until you see them side by side. One exception is Rolex white gold which uses a small percentage of platinum in their alloy to make it whiter and "lock in" the color which will never fade or change. - Finally, this last section will blow your mind: Platinum is extremely dense and as such is roughly 60% heavier than gold. This is easily noticed if you handle two identical watches in each metal sometime. It will really amaze you. Glashutte is a good one for the test. Go to an AD sometime and have them pull out something from the Pano collection in all three metals - steel, gold, and platinum and compare them. The gold will feel closer to the steel to you in those watches and the platinum kind of stands on its own. Not what you would really expect, which is for the steel to stand on its own and the other two to be similar. Consider a block of metal just 6" square. For illustration in your mind, go get one of your watch boxes. Like a typical Rolex or Omega watch box and note how wide it is. Now take that and imagine it is as deep and tall as it is wide. Not really that big huh? Well if it were made of 950 platinum alloy, it would weigh 165 pounds! As much as I do!!! And now for another frightening number. At this moment the current spot price of platinum is $1074 per ounce. If your little 6" block were made of platinum you could sell it for $2,835,360! Of course you will probably need to get someone (or something rather) to help you carry it to wherever you need to take it to!

Yeah, that's right, my mistake. That is one of those facts that I knew, but no matter how many times I hear it I keep thinking rose gold as copper just isn't a material we associate with modern timepieces. Good catch Shundi!

Yeah, kind of the same idea as the Slevin though but it is an idea in the absence of other ideas.

Yeah D, anyway you can get a 2310 is a blessing. Of course the high finished, swan necked modern 2320 bases from PP, VC, etc. are stunning, but if I am to be honest, the plain jane 321's Omega offered are just as cool. I'm specially partial to the pink gold bridged varieties. You know, this is another thread that I have been meaning to do, but not enough is said or understood about these low beat larger diameter Calibers with good balance wheel proportion. Nowadays you here people spouting off about 28.8K movements as if they are somhow superior and they are in just one way which is a superior rate result out of the box with less adjustment and the ability to really improve that rate with indexing. But they do wear out quicker and parts do break more often and the service interval is shorter. It simply is incorrect to say that high beats are uniformly "better" But what isn't said enough is praise for the low friction that 18K movements give which greatly reduce the service interval. It is also a big reason why there are so many of them still running with all original parts from sixty years ago. Moreover, the best way to regulate a watch is something that takes skill and should not be done by using an index to effectively change the length of the hairspring. All watchmakers seem to agree that regulation which comes from painstaking adjustment of the free sprung balance alone with screws, etc. as well as a movement design that effectively uses the ideal torque in the middle of the power band of the mainspring is a higher art form. And with great care and the right movement design, very similar rate results can be achieved. Of course, 21.6K movements can provide a nice balance between the two schools. It all comes down to philosophy really and how manufactories choose to market them. Rolex for example leans toward precision as a selling point whereas Lange leans toward timelessness and how the movements will age over the next hundred years. They each have their place. My solution is I always want to have some of both!

Thanks for those. Hopefully someone can chime in and give me the definitive answer and then I can open up a lot of options...

Thanks Siesta, but I don't care for pilots watches really - I had a gen Big Pilot and sold that as well. And I already have a gen Ti Aquatimer. Both good suggestions though. If I didn't already have an AT I would do the Slevin for sure. Anybody else?

Thanks - can anyone else confirm this that has done it or know someone who has?

So it is known to us that if you have an Asian 7750 you can swap Day/Date discs from a Swiss 7750 into it with no modification. Can you also swap Day/Date discs from an Asian 7750 into a Swiss one? Similarly, is the rotor from an Asian 7750 compatable with the ETA one in some way? The size of the bearing opening but not the bearings? In other words could you pop the bearings out of the Asian rotor and press the Swiss ones in it and then use that rotor on the Swiss 7750? Or just swap the whole thing bearings and all? Or can you even take the whole automatic module from an A7750 and put in on an ETA 7750? The idea I have would be to do a Porsche Flat 6 project and put my Swiss 7750 in it and use the DW's and rotor from the Asian 7750 version potentially. Thanks in advance guys. I may know more than most about a lot of historic high end movements, but gen/rep 7750 compatability is not something I know much about other than chrono hand size differences which require broaching. But that I have done before on my BCE project a while back so no worries there. The Flat 6 is pretty intriguing and hey, I can use the "it matches" my car geeky excuse to do the project. If I can make this stuff work I might have the first Swiss 7750 Flat 6 on the forums. Do tell if my idea is doable, or another frustrating rep pipe dream...

I have a new 7750 that I have been trying to sell, but it won't sell so I surrender. I have decided to also surrender to an impending rep project itch at the same time and find a suitable candidate for a transplant. From there I will do AR and lume if needed so without using those as a judge if they are substandard or missing, what would you suggest I use for the ultimate rep to put a standard layout 7750 in? Maybe if the project turns out well I can sell the movement via a whole watch instead. lol.

The PO today but I can't decide on the shark or the rubber. Maybe both, one AM - one PM? You decide...

Glad you had the chance to see it Samu. The yellowness of the UN gold is a big turn off to me. Of course all alloys are a little different. I also find that companies that still offer YG despite the RG craze tend to have pinker RG so as to make a clear distinction between the two and of course UN no longer does any YG so they are trying to split the difference. But historically, RG was much more yellow with all brands a hundred years ago. The real red and pink stuff was always called Red Gold and Pink Gold respectively, but rose gold proper is only supposed to have a touch of copper. So really UN is doing it right actually to be technical about it. But in my experience when RG starts to fade it gets a little green anyway just like yellow gold, but the green from the copper mixes with that and makes a sickening greenish brown. If I ever own and RG again it will be very pink or not at all. My favorite RG is Rolex Everrose. To me the color is perfect and it will never change with the PT in the alloy. I'm surprised more companies don't put 1% PT in all their gold alloys to lock it in - expecially WG, which has to be regularly rhodium dipped and repolished to look great over the years. Of course the solution for high end watches not offered in steel is always to just rob a bank and buy PT I suppose! You should check out the gen on full gold bracelet BTW. A weapon, but amazing. The only thing better than a Nardin bracelet is a precious metal Nardin bracelet. Their bracelets are the finest in the world at any price and that is completely objective. The only ones that come close are Vacheron's but even those are a hair less impressive...