RobbieG

I don't think you are doing yourself any favors and setting yourself up for failure by thinking that service is very expensive. It is part of this hobby and it only seems like it is because you are paying so little for such a nice watch to begin with. The watch in this discussion is really nice and pretty close to world class for five hundred bucks or so. Also, you may have missed it but the risk of failure has nothing to do with the seconds at 12 complication specifically. Any dirty Asian or Swiss movement is subject to failure. Teh A7750 is on par quality wise with the low level ETA's and ETA clones we see in our reps as well. But if dirty, that is what will cause the failure, not the movement type. And no, service isn't required at the outset. The way to handle it, and what most do is take your chances. If the watch stops after a month or two and you know it is a movement and version which has been evaluated as being a low friction/decent design per The Zigmeister' or another's assesment, just get it serviced then if you want to keep the watch. It makes no difference really whether service happens now or in five years. Look at it this way, it is one more service out of the way and you can probably push the next one to 7+ years if you get it done right early. Again, expect to service any movement - gens too. So the price is one more service for a couple hundred bucks in order to save 75% or more in cost from the gen watch. I mean this in the niceest possible way bro, but you have to just suck it up if you want to enjoy this hobby. Just because a watch is a rep doesn't exempt it from service somehow and because it costs less it shouldn't be treated as a throwaway. .02

Ahh, cool, I thought he might have been. It always seemed he had great taste in timepiecesSo it seems mister Brown is WIS. I wonder if he has graced our pages ever. He certainly is a smart guy and I enjoy watching him and learning from his show. I too like Guy. I think he has a great personality and reminds me of somebody I would be friends with. Although we have to step up his watch interest to that of Tyler or Alton...

Neither of them would sell. The San Marco is at least possible but the Tellerium? One of the most innovative and complicated movements ever designed. There is just no chance of ever seeing that in a rep. Sorry. Amaing piece though. Personally, of the Trilogy series of astromomical complications my favorite is the Astrolabium Galileo Galilei

Alot of people have a really negative perception of ETA ebauches like they are somehow lower quality or something and it just isn't so. Personally, I have my own views about movements and prefer low beat designs with screw balances using more pure methods of regualtion, etc. I just think less friction, etc. is better in the long run and as such I respect the old dogs that use Lemania and their own low beat movements alot. But I still recognize ETA as being equal at the highest level of regulation and finish really. That said, somehow people sometimes make the distinction that VC or Patek whoever using a Lemania or Piguet ebauche is somehow different than IWC or UN using an ETA ebauche. One os not better than another and the process is still the same to provide high level modification and decoration. They should also understand that the only real reason VC, Patek and the boys use Lemania for example is because of the reasons I mentioned above: They have a horological preference for low beat calibers and ETA doesn't offer them. So Lemania wins by default. But people think it must mean they are better because PP or VC or whoever chose them. It's just that their options are limited. The highest grade ETA ebauches are equal in quality and decoration to the highest level Lemania ebauches. There are an equal number of high end companies that prefer high beat movements over lower beat versions. Two schools of thought really. Rolex, Zenith, Jaeger, and Glashutte all prefer high beat movements (28.8k) for easy to achive superior rate results and shorter service intervals due to higher friction and stress which generates more revenue for the company. On the other hand Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin, IWC, Dubuis, and Lange all prefer lower beat designs (18k/21.6k) for longer service intervals, bragging rights of movements that last for generations, the high skill it takes to adjust them using only a free sprung screw balance for more bragging rights, etc. Many people just don't realize this and incorrectly assume ETA is just lower quality. The fact is there really aren't many other choices for 28.8 ebauches besides ETA and Jaeger and the choices for low beats are really just Lemania and Piguet (although Piguet does make some high beat stuff as well including the 1185 in the RO as I mentioned before). .02

Iceberg is always more than a little harsh. Just his forum style I suppose. Plus he is young so he probably doesn't know better yet. But his comments are also unfounded and based on opinions and not facts. Boring? If there is any watch company that isn't boring UN has to be it. I have no idea how any human could say that really. Tasteless is another opinion. He says tasteless, I say adventurous. And the details? All horology is an obsession with detail. It is the name of the whole game so to speak. Now for the facts. Ulysse Nardin only uses very stripped ETA ebauches of plates and balances on their basic watches and in terms of high complications and innovative design not only do they hold more patents from innovations than any other manufactory, they also have more totally in house high complication movements than ANY other manufactory except JLC. So to compare Hublot to them in any repect is just ignorant. If you like the design and it pleases youfine, but let's talk facts, not opinions. And lets talk real comparisons to UN's true peers. Virtually all the complications produced by the Swiss fab four - AP, VC, PP & Breguet - are based on ebauches from Lemania & Piguet. So to say that those companies make in house movements is also incorrect. UN does though. The Royal Blue, The Ghengis Khan and other repeaters, The GMT+/- Perpetual, The Freak, The Sonata as you mention are all totally built in house. And as for the ETA [censored], not there is anything wrong with them, but UN has now developed the new modular Caliber 160 which will serve as the crossover base for both non-chrono and chrono movements which are not from the high complication line. Those will remain as they are and I'm sure they will keep making new ones as well. So they are actually phasing out the last of the ETA stocks as we speak. But this brings up a final interesting point. The ETA 2894 chrono and of course the venerable 2892 which are the ebauches they use are simply more robust and better quality movements then their fragile high beat F. Piguet counterparts used by many of the fab 4. But they use them anyway because of the Swiss history they get more respect from the uninitiated. Of course they also have some of their own calibers as well, but I'm trying to compare apples to apples without opinions. I'll take a 2894 in the Maxi Marine Chrongraph over the 1185 in a Royal Oak Chrono any day of the week. It's just a better movement and I like the seconds at 3. Failure rates of 1185's are much higher. The thinness of the 1185 is it's undoing. If it would have been a 21.6K beat there would be less friction and stress but of course it isn't. Thin, fragile movements and high beats is just a bad idea. In fact, that is why most of the highest end companies use 18K and 21.6K movements as opposed to 28.8K designs. They are just stronger. They take more skill to regulate perfectly, but the robustness is higher with less stress and the service interval is longer. I'm surprised AP would change that philosphy really. Just ask Omega about that movement. The AP RO movement is the same movement as in a Planet Ocean Chronograph. The failure rates are quite high with both the RO and POC. So lets make sure we don't fall off that high horse there Bergster...

As all can see from the wrist shot 41MM is plenty big enough. I think a lot of people have numbers on size on the brain as absolutes and forget sometimes that they all wear different and you can't get much from the number. My 42MM Aquatimer is "bigger" than the 44MM Steelfish because the interior bezel makes the AT appear larger. Similarly, the shape of the Aquaracer case makes it wear larger than 41MM. Even my favorite illustration, the new style DJ case like on my M serial. It just wears so much larger than 36MM now. I never look down and think the watch is "too small" at all. Is it a large watch? No. But does it "wear" like a 36MM watch? Absolutely not. - and I have 7.5" wrists... I also agree with BT about relative size and balance. I feel that just so many larger watches are so out of balance. And that isn't a blanket statement. A 47MM Fiddy is balanced fine for what it is, but many others that size just look silly. There is a lot more to the size thing than a number

Somebody asked me about the blue sapphire and the difference between the colors if any. I suppose this is a good place to post the answer. The Sapphire crystals in our watches is actually Synthetic Sapphire as you know, but it is kind of incorrect to even call "real" clear Sapphire, sapphirereally... Synthetic Sapphire is used instead of the real deal for costs and time obviously. Real Sapphire takes about a hundred thousand years to make (lol) and synthetic takes a few hours. It is the same substance though. Identical in every way really, minus any character nature provides. It has a hardness of 10 on the Mohs scale, which is the maximum and only diamonds are a harder substance anywhere on the face of the earth. The material known as Sapphire is Aluminum Oxide, but in its clear form is known as Corundum. But that is kind of boring and hard to remember so we call it Sapphire. Technically, Sapphire is only Aluminum Oxide (Corundum) which is blue in color. Ruby is red Corundum. Emerald is Green Corundum. Genuine Sapphire, Ruby, and Emerald are all the same substance naturally and only have different values due to rarity in nature. So the next time you think of a "Sapphire" crystal, just know that it is really colorless Aluminum Oxide or Corundum and that only if it were blue Corundum would it technically be Sapphire. So the translucent bridges and plates on the Royal Blue Tourbillions are a combination of clear and blue Corundum, but the blue sections are technically the only which should be called Sapphire.

Servicing any chronograph is going to cost more than a non-chrono. The more complicated a movement is the more time consuming to service correctly. But I wouldn't say a 7750 in particular would be hard to work with as a stand out. Cost more than say a 2824 to service? You bet - at least with most watchmakers. If it doesn't you have to wonder if it is being done right. The botton line, and I think Freddy pointed it out not too long ago, is that people some how think replica watches are exempt from service because they are low cost. No mechanical watch is. If you intend to buy and keep any watch you have to factor service into the watch. I bet Rob would tell you that 90% of the problems related to the 7750 clone out of the box are related to lack of lubrication and/or dirt. In terms of quality, the finish aside, it really isn'tall that different that a gen 7750 which has its little quirks, noises, etc. But again, even if you are paying three to four hundred for a great rep and have to factor in another couple hundred for service, you will now have a high quality piece for peanuts. Personally I just don't get the divide there where you could love a watch as long as you don't have to pay two hundred to service it and then that somehow makes it go over budget. It is a fixed cost with any watch and really can't be factored into the "worth" of buying a timepiece. Just because Rob points out that the seconds at 12 is properly jeweled, it doesn't mean the movement is going to run right dry. It is still likely to stop and or seize if it isn't clean and serviced. I would love to see a test of sorts because I believe Rob when he says teh A7750 is a great movement. The test would be how many of them fail within five years if serviced properly out of the gate. I'm betting it is a really low number....

Yeah you all are sparking my memory. I think Tyler has a Fiddy and I know Guy has a orange Doxa as well as the Sub. And I do remember seeing a Sub on Alton now that you mention it. I also think I remember seeing him with either a Breguet Classique or Chronoswiss Kairos - too tough to tell at a distance. Any more? How about other hosts on other networks, not just food shows?

So now that we have so many more people over 2500 are we going to have other milestones with names now like for 5k and 10k maybe? From what I'm hearing 2500 is the last real milestone where anything changes. We need a "Supermax" and a "Sillymax" level or something I guess.

Anyone ever land on Food Network and notice its hosts have a lot of nice watches? -Bobby Flay has a new WG Rhodium Roman Fluted President Day Date and a TT DJ Fluted with Jubilee on older shows -Emeril has a platinum glacier DD, a full size Rolesium Yachtmaster, and also a SS DJ Fluted with Jubilee -Tyler Florence has a Big Pilot and a PAM (anybody know what the PAM is), and more I can't think of I wonder if chefs in general like nice watches or if the network encourages them to wear nice pieces because they look good on film. Probably not, but certainly most host chefs wear nice timepieces. Even Alton Brown always has cool looking stuff on but I can never tell what they are from the filming style of that show. Does anybody know about any other watches on the Food Network?

We almost did some real estate deals there two years ago. Thank God I had the sense to not buy into the hype. Now, five years ago is a different story. Bigger risks then of course but the rewards were staggering.

Like this? Dark blue croc and a lot less jewels (note two versions changes on inner bezel). Of course the gens still start at around $230K though...

Hey congrats man. Another nice gen in the stable. As you know, I had a 2000 Exclusive Automatic Chronograph myself for a while. You are right, people snub TAG's but they really are very well made. Very much like Breitling in terms of milling which is a great compliment. I would even go so far as to say the bracelets are far superior to classic gen Rolex sports watch bracelets hands down. Mine reminded me of my Fish in many ways fit and finish wise. Again, congrats on a good score. That's 41MM right? And $2700 retail or so? I'm sure you got a great deal on it as I have seen them new at up to 37% off which is a steal.

The whole key really is friction. There have been many stock A7750 failures as well. By and large Asian movements just come dirty and dry or dirty and improperly oiled or dirty and over lubricated. This has been very well documented. The bottom line is that if these things are bad enough any movement will cease to run - including your gen Rolex or whatever if you don't service it. So you are talking about two issues which are going to be very hard to put your finger on. Notice Rob didn't even bother trying to figure out why it was seized until he torn it down and cleaned and lubricated it. Then it ran fine. It was obviously seized because of my points here. Problems with a complication are another issue entirely. Here we are not talking about problems like this but functions stopping running or skipping due to aligmenet problems, or failures specifically in these areas. So the issues of improper jeweling, ett. being solved, any problem with the movement won't be from that. As a dirty A7750 a host of other things may fail if it is unserviced or should happen to have assembly or maufacturing tolerance problems, etc. It should be free of defects, but it is a cheap Asian movement so anything is possible. But the transfer system to move the seconds to 12 is now sound. You really should consider servicing and A7750 reo you intend to keep because they are all dirty and can and will develop major problems in the future from being so if you don't deal with it. It may be fine for quite some time if luck is on your side. The fact is people don't realize how important service is - especially for Asian movements to keep them running. People want to just try and not spend the money which is fine for throwaways but. If you are going to collect watches get used to spending money on service. If you are going to collect reps get used to having dirty movements out of the box and if they stop they usually need service sooner than you would like. lol. Luck of the draw. Hope that is what you were looking for.

Even Jetmid couldn't afford these kinds of watches. These are like Jetmid's rich uncle's boss's watches.

Hahahahaha! No doubt Andy!

Lol. It's not a race Bergster - and it's not $255K for that one. That is for the strapped model, not the high jewelry version. UN won't say how much it is, which is pretty scary. Certainly both are way too much to make any sense at all. And as for the Hublot plug, surely a young AP man such as yourself can recognize a copycat when he sees one? Not that it matters to me though. I wouldn't keep either of them until the end of a day before putting them up for sale myself. But I do recognize the quality and superiority of the AP product hands down. Simply a world class manufactory for sure. Hmmm, I wonder where Hublot got the idea for the Big Bang? And not to bust your chops too bad, but you are showing your age by using the term "owned". Sounds like something they say on that show Laguna Beach or something. A fine European (young) gentleman such as yourself should try to avoid sounding like one of those little rubber people with frosted tips and a man bag at all costs.

Great news. If I were a Royal Oak fan I would be dancing a jig right now. With a reliable movement those are a whole lotta watch for four or five hundred bucks as compared to 20-30K for a gen. I'm happy for the AP fans out there for sure. Thanks again to Rob for taking the time to share his findings. And keep in mind the factory has their dogs patrol these forums. Our sales are the test market for knowledge and they do care what we say. I'm certain that is what these improvements are being made - not for our benefit of course as our sales are insignificant to the whole really, but for the benefit of their broader wholesale markets on the say so of the experts - that's us in their eyes. The system works quite well I think.

Yeah, I gotta agree with you there. Not much substance there, especially in technology and development. Not to mention the BB is no doubt a derivative of the Royal Oak design. Imitation is a great form of flattery though as AP's RO and ROO sales have been completely launched off the charts because of the BB fad. Not that they needed it really, being a limited production company like most, but the increased demand allowed AP to raise prices alot and get away with it. But anyway, it just goes to show that without technology and design development as it relates to complications, no company will ever really gain respect at the highest level, no matter what maybe "hot" sales wise. Unless Hublot enters that arena they are going to have a hard time in the future once the "watch craze" really starts to fall off.

Yeah, the interesting thing about the Royal Blue is that usually you see really expensive high complications, then you see really expensive jeweled pieces with standard movements or the occasional standard tourby. But rarely do you see a piece that stands on its own as an amazing timepiece innovation when all the jewels are stripped away. The UN Royal is certainly one of those pieces and if not the most interesting tourbillion movement then it is #2 or more likely tied for first with the Breguet double w/rotating dial. Their Genghis Khan tourby/repeater combo with Westminster quarter repeater, elemental glass dial, moving automatons and tourbillion escaement is right up there as well...

So by now you are all probably familiar with the amazing Ulysse Nardin Royal Blue Tourbillion. A genius design which combines a tourbillion escapement with completely bridgeless works that are actually mounted to a combination of clear and blue saphire crystals giving the impression of the movement suspended in and the tourbillion rotating in thin air. Even the initial versions were quite jeweled with three levels of diamond and sapphire adornment on its case. But now Nardin has released a final version of it for the truly bling obsessed - The Royal Blue Tourbillon Haute Joaillerie Full Set. It features a larger 43mm platinum case (because of the jewels). The amount of jewels is pretty staggering. In addition to the giant blue sapphire which serves as a functional jewel for the center pinion of the tourbillion, there are an additional... -80 baguette-cut diamonds (5.07 carats) on the bezel, lugs, and crown. -45 baguette sapphires (9.19 cts.) are in the case and lug flanks. - Another ring of baguette diamonds encircles the outer rim of the dial, punctuated by baguette sapphires at the hour positions. - And get this, a platinum bracelet set with 432 baguette diamonds (27.77 cts.) and 176 baguette sapphires (6.99 cts.). - Finally, there is even a sapphire cabochon set on the top of the winding crown. The price? UN isn't saying. I'm sure all 30 pieces are already spoken for before production has completed so it is of no consequece to anyone who would buy something like this. But I can tell you that the retail price of the previously "most jeweled version" is $255,000 already - and that was on a croc strap and had none of the baguette cut diamonds and sapphires on the case and lug flanks - not to mention a full platinum bracelet with over 30ct. of jewels. Certainly over a million dollars US and the thing must weigh a ton. Oppulence. Just goes to show there are more people in this world than one would think that have so much money they just don't know what to do with it. Somebody get my buddy jfreeman in here.

Yeah its a 1:1 for sure. Bad enough UN made the gen if you ask me. Hopefully, they destroyed the CAD files on this one and it will become a "limited edition". Although, as I said it is selling well and UN has it in the regular lineup. Between the Dual Time, Lady Diver, The Caprice and Michaelangelo I should think they had the girls covered. One thing I have always liked about Nardin is their lines are not protracted. The Marine series are basically one chrono and one non chrono version of the same marine chronometer look and design and they just offer it in every conceivable size dial color, size, and variation of it. Something for everyone. Then they have the Dual Time collection which in a similar way centers around the movement and the basic design and they offer tons of variation. Then finally the complications are al unique and have just a couple dial and case variations. If it were up to me they wouldn't need anything else, but they do have a few extras in their but 90% of sales come from those three camps, with 70% of that coming from the Marine line. So oddball stuff like this just ruins the continuity if you ask me.

I'm ashamed to say I don't even know what the next milestone is after 2500 Powermax?

One: Two: Buckle my shoe: