panerai153

George (from Greece) is a totally different person. actually he posted here on the forum a week or two back. Sort of checked in and had some nice things to say about folks that he had delt with back then. I was off the forum for a couple of years, and he left during that time, I don't know why he got out of the rep business, but when he was in, he sourced some very nice watches. On the other hand, much like the other George (WM9), there have been several guys who left under quite unsavory conditions. How many remember Luckyy (?) He was shipping MBW's and all of a sudden, he disappeared, with quite a few member's funds if I remember correctly. And more recently Eurotimez who hooked a few folks on DSSD's that were never delivered. As one of the posters in this thread said, we are dealing with a criminal enterprise. No matter how we spin it, or sugar coat the trade, it's theft of intellectual property. Every watch that is sold is a knock off of a genuine patented, copyrighted product. While I sincerely believe that for the most part, the end users of these products are upstanding, law abiding cirtizens, I would suspect that some of the folks that are at the other end of the spectrum are less upstanding. Possibly, the mind set is that ,what they are doing is "legal", in a sense because a great majority of the folks who buy replicas would never buy the genuine. I find that to be pretty lame rationalization.Also, because what the manufacturers and dealers are doing is illigal, even in the countries where reps are produced,the turnover rate of folks would be pretty high. I suppose it would be like all high risk jobs, the new workers are young and hungry, risk taking and the thrill of doing something on the fringe of danger is OK, however, as time goes on, the individual begins to weigh the risks/gain ratio, and when it isn't worth the risk, the individual moves on to something safer.

There is no way to know how much he got, as there were some lucky folks who were only into it for a pretty small deposit, others, me included, paid the full price. The price, when I paid in full back in November of 09', was 375.00 USD. There is no telling how many paid that or close to that price. I've heard some people speculate that he got away with several hundred thousand dollars.I seriously question that figure. He would have had to presell 800-1000 watches @ the full price to arrive at that amount of money. What is so strange is, why would a fellow that was enjoying a great deal of success as a watch builder, suddenly disappear? I believe that their is more to it than meets the eye in this saga. Anything on our part would be pure speculation, but it is a fact that things started unraveling about the time he took his website down. He very well could have gotten a visit from the authorities who scared him into running. Rolex SA has very long arms and enormous resources. They are unrelenting in their determination to stamp out "fakes". It wouldn't surprise me in the least that WM9's watches were so good that Rolex zeroed in on him and decided to really put the heat on him. I doubt that he or anyone else would want to take the chance of ignoring the authorities in this sort of situation. Given the choice of shutting down or risking jail would be an easy decision.Having owned a WM9 v3 and doing a side by side comparison with a genuine 16610 Sub, there is no way the average watch buyer could tell if this was genuine or replica. Now I know there are quite a few fellows on the forums, both rep and genuine who could tell, but they comprise about .0001% of the watch buying population.These are the reps the genuine watch companies are the most worried about, as they can easily be passed off as genuine. No telling how many have been sold on Ebay, traded at jewelers, etc. Off topic a bit, but there was a thread on the Rolex forum about a year ago about some really drop dead georgous woman who was visiting jewelry stores in Florida and selling rep DSSD's. Story varied, but usually it was "I got this in a divorce selttlement with my ex-husband and I need to sell it" . Several bit on the story and she walked away with a bunch of cash. What is scary is the DSSD is not nearly as accurate as the v3 16610 from WM9! Another thing, he could have met with some sort of catastrophe. Folks, even normal healthy folks, die every day. Auto accidents, crime victims, social unrest, all claim victims every day of the year. I'm sure that someone, somewhere knows the story. We, however may never know unless someone who has/had contact with George comes forward and tells the rest of us what happened. It would seem that the one person who had a vested interest in George's projects is BKLM. Bert however has not come forth with any information, for whatever reason. Maybe he doesn't know any more than we do, but possibly he is not telling for another reason. At any rate that is his and anyone else's business as to whether or not they reveal anything. My interest is now one of curiosity only. i have long since given up on any hope of getting a watch or my money. This was an expensive lesson, but one well learned. i will never ,ever buy into a concept watch, no matter how inviting the deal. I would rather pay full price when the manufacturer has the watch in stock and ready to ship, rather than agonizing over when or if it will ever arrive.

I must have typed in something wrong, I just did a search on Ebay "2783" and got 35 hits . several watches, a whole bunch of movements, mostly selling as "For repair or parts" , but the watches looked OK. i bought a 2783 a year or two ago and it came out of a Certina. Got a few hits under "2784" ,only a couple of watches, both Tudors and the prices are too high for a movement. Keep looking I'm sure you will find something pretty quickly.

Blue Day Today

I agree the 2873-74 is the route to go. I just went over to Ebay, and nothing on there right now, but if you check frequently, you will find one.The 2873 is cheaper. the 9411/0 is a great watch. Here is mine. The lumi pearl has been replaced with a tritium, which gets it back to the same shape as the day it left the Tudor Factory.

Ofrei has pearls that should work. Here is the link Ofrei Pearl

Contemplating another project (I really need psychiatric help!!) maybe a Tudor Big crown or a 6538. i was wondering about the crowns, it looks like there are several on the market, Yuki,NDT, maybe others. Who has the best, most accurate crown?

Very nice. I'm wearing my 9411/0 right now. Hard to beat the plexi's and the blue's the best :thumbsupsmileyanim: Nice thing about Tudors is most folks don't have a clue that they are really a Rolex in ETA clothing.

I respectfully have to disagree with you about no one wearing these. i know several folks who wear watches that are far,far more expensive than the 6542. I believe that it depends on the individual as to whether or not you can pull it off. I would expect that if you are an individual who is making 300k + per year, no one is going to question your watch. If you are 18 years old and working at McDonald's after school, well, that's probably a whole different deal. Something else, we spend hours on this forum, some daily, some less frequently, but all in all, an inordinate time discussing and analyzing replicas, down to the most minute detail. I can assure you we are the exception, not the rule. For about 99.999% of the folks in the world, a watch is a watch,is a watch, it's on their wrist because they want to have an instrument that they can use to tell what time it is. they do not fawn over, salivate over or even care about watches outside of the strictly ulitarian uses that they own them for. Consequently, those folks generally can't tell a Timex from a Rolex. They MIGHT know that Rolex doesn't now make quartz watches, so a really cheap quartz Rolex rep may be a tip off, but I wouldn't even guarantee that. So unless you are wearing your rep into a really savvy AD, or a VRF GTG, i would think you are pretty safe. The 6542 needs a lot of aging however as the newness may be only minus. I personally wouldn't buy this one because of the Rehault, and the lack of the Pepsi bezel insert as an option for the white dial version. Otherwise, I would have one on the way.

Very nice job. Why not snap the old aged insert into the old bezel, the new in the new and try each one out for a while and see what you like. One thing I would vote for personally would be a nice tritium pearl. I just don't like the no pearl look. In my case, since I wear mine every day, including whatever i'm doing outside, that big hole is a great place for dust and dirt to get between the bezel and the retaining ring/washer.Of course if you aren't in a dusty environment, that might not be a reason, just asthetics.

Somebody is going to get scammed!! According to the guys over on VRF, there wasn''t a Red sub in the Madoff auction. If there had been, i'm certain it would have sold for more that this guy is going to get for this one on Ebay. Of course if this one is a fake, he has a 300% profit already!!!

Seems like there have been a few v3's on the sales forum lately. I would post a WTB on all the rep forums. Seems sort of sad to do a 16610 instead of a matte dial 16800. i just sold my WM9/BK 16610 and bought a very nice genuine "P" serial ( year 2000) 16610 for 3200.00 USD. All the nice matte dial 16800's are selling for 5k + on the VRF, so a much more desirable watch. The later 16800's with gloss dial and WG surrounds are much cheaper. I was offered one for 2800.00 USD less bracelet. Good luck with your build, no matter what you decide.

As bad as I would like to have a 6542, I'm with Ronin, that one has about as bad a rehault as I have ever seen. And unfortunately, not something that can be fixed like crown/tube, crystal, insert etc. Strangly, they don't seem to offer the white dial version with a pepsi bezel, it's shown on the black dial version, but not the white. Too bad!!

As bad as I would like to have a 6542, I'm with Ronin, that one has about as bad a rehault as I have ever seen. And unfortunately, not something that can be fixed like crown/tube, crystal, insert etc. Strangly, they don't seem to offer the white dial version with a pepsi bezel, it's shown on the black dial version, but not the white. Too bad!!

I believe that is what he is talking about. The old SD was the 1665, the new would be the 16600 and 16660.Same models as the SSD. the DSSD (Deep Sea Sea Dweller is completely different, uses a creamic bezel insert and is much larger) Old and new refer to Sea Dwellers that use metal inserts.

These are pretty nice, the crown is Waaaaay too big. First mod would be a genuine crown. Supposedly the Tube will work with a genuine crown, but even if it didn't a Clark tube will only set you back about 17-20 bucks. These have a 2846 motor , so it's slow beat almost the same as the genuine 1570 that was in your genuine. Pretty nice silver date wheel too. Bezel /crystal attachment is weird, not at all like the genuine. You can get genuine inserts to fit, probably with some sanding and glue. I don't think genuine bezels will work, at least without modifications of the machinist nature.All in all a pretty darn nice rep at a very reasonable price. It's not and old skool MBW that takes genuine parts with no mods, but they are in another price bracket as well, when you can find one.

I have to agree with these guys. i believe that the only way you can justify spendiing 2500-3000 on a Franken is to replicate a 15-20k watch. I think that you can build a really respectable franken for 700-900 USD and as you said yourself, if you need to sell it, it's readily salable. Pretty nice 1675's are for sale in the low 4k range all the time. Not a pristine one with box punched papers, and all the accessories, but a nice watch nevertheless. If you were building a 6542, or a DRSD 1665, then the 2.7-3k sounds reasonable, but not a 1675. I sold my WM9/BK 16610 and purchased a very nice genuine "P" serial 16610 for 3200 dollars. I was looking at a genuine dial, crystal, bezel and retaining ring etc to add to what I had already done and I was staring at another 1000 dollars added to the 1000 I already had in the watch, and that didn't include a genuine bracelet. It just doesn't make economic sense to spend over 2/3 the price of a genuine on a rep. I'm with alligoat on that, those are best topped off at 700-800 bucks. Save the rest for the 16600!

No, the inserts are different size. You need to get a insert for the bezel you have, If you have a SD bezel, you need an insert for a SD 16660 that would be a 315-16660-81 Lumi insert Do not get the insert for a 16610 or 168000 Submariner.

Don't worry, they all have one!! You just might not see it on their wrist, it ain't just for timing eggs. Seriously, Mrs ubi looks absolutelely great wearing that beautiful Daytona. R you really did out kick your coverage my friend.

Joey, That's a great story, but and even greater watch! The white dial 6542 is absolutely my grail watch. I'm and absolute sucker for bakelite and/or acrylic bezel inserts, and the pepsi is the best. i bet youy could build a few of these and sell them for a big profit! I know I would be in line to get one for sure. It would be interesting to know if you could put an ETA 2893-2 GMT movement in a 6542 or 1675? Correct hand stack for either of those and a bulletproof movement.

I just went back and looked, it's still up on my computer.

Send all of those darn 904 's to me by all means. i will replace every one with a nice guaranteed Hypoallergenic Timex (Timex is close to Rolex right? ) Rolex,Polex,Timex, I just can't keep all those apart!!

Man, are you so right about that!! Good stuff over on the VRF marketplace literally is gone in seconds . Some of those guys mush have a constant refresh feature on their computers and sit there all day long waiting to scarf up the good stuff. Goood luck with your builds

the owner, sure sounds either incredibly naive, or he's really crafty. I believe the watch is genuine. What rings the big alarm bell is how did he get it for 350.00 USD? I'm sure all of those auctions are advertised, and you know there has to be someone there looking to find good used high end watches that they can resell. One wonders if he had some inside help from someone in the PD? Wha do you want to bet that as soon as the serial number comes out, someone will come forward with a police report of the watch being stolen. This one is too rare to fly under the radar. the only way this could fly is the watch was taken off someone who stole it a long time ago and it got caught up with some recently stolen stuff. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. If he has a real 1/30 prototype SD, he's looking at a whole lot more that Dr. Bob's Submariner sold for on ebay a few weeks ago, providing he can hold on to it.

I absolutely love the 6542's. joey, if you can build one that looks like the Robert Maron watch, you will have "hit it out the ballpark" i would love to find a really nice rep of the White dial PanAm 6542.