RWG Technical

You are correct, the A7753 datewheel is unlike anything else out there. Yes the distances are the same, check out the original post I installed my ETA7753 into the new case, everything fit and lined up correctly, then I installed the A7753 and dial into my 196 case, again it all lines up Here is the A7753 datewheel and the "gap" you have to work with... Here is the ETA 7753 DW placed on top of the A7753 DW And here is the excess thickness sticking up above the movement rim, you would have to remove 50-75% of the ETA7753 DW to use it as a overlay, or better yet, get an overlay similar to the Rollie ones printed on thin metal stock. BUT, so far no one, and I mean no one, has been able to produce an aftermarket DW of acceptable quality, so I don't see anyone being able to make an acceptable overlay, unless it comes directly from the manufacturers. As you can see, most of the ETA DW is sticking up above the movement rim, you need a gap to the bottom of the dial, so I am thinking that a thin metal overlay is the only fix. I would estimate that your overlay can't exceed 0.10mm in thickness, any thicker, and your going to have problems. Hopefully the pics show the detail you require.

They are all just for show... Typically if you move the fine adjust, the whole thing falls apart...on this one, it's jammed and riveted solid and won't budge. All the timing has to be done directly to the regulator arm, which is why it takes so long, hard to move the arm fractions of a mm.

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback, it reminds me why I take the time to do these type of posts. Much appreciated. Answers to the questions: The lesson is to gather up some old movements, and some good tweezers, and start practicing. It one of those "learned" things, very unforgiving and very nerve wracking, especially on some old high end movements were no spares are available and the hairspring is made of blued steel... I pick up junked movements, and practice, if I screw up, in the trash they go...it does require a lot of time investment and hands on manipulation to get the "feel". The date system is similar to the ETA one, with only one difference, the quickset wheel on the ETA doesn't have a detent spring, whereas the Asian one does have a detent spring - mind you the spring is extremely weak and probably contributes little to the actual functioning. For the dateset, servicing or not is only a small part of the problem, given that the ETA 7753 when correctly serviced and oiled has jammed up datewheel issues, servicing seems to have little influence. I have never had any defects or broken parts in the datewheel system, the failure is always of it not working, just because of the design. I don't think there is any risk of anything breaking from lack of initial servicing. Given that this is the "normal" condition of the A775X series, if the watch is a keeper, I would get it serviced at no later than 1 year after purchase, to make sure you don't wear anything out... I can't imagine why they would do this, especially when the ETA is a known size and diameter. You could be onto something though, maybe they will use this movement in various models, and print the dates within that wide wheel to adjust to various dials... It's the same for all Asian 775X movements, some are flooded with oil and grease everywhere, others are like this one, and others are worse, no consistancy or standard condition.

Great review. Looks as if the sweater factory is next door to the salad factory. Interesting to note similar yet different problems when compared to the one I tore down. But in each case, nothing that a servicing can't fix or cure. Thanks for posting, good to get different viewpoints and opinions, the membership of RWG are the ones who gain from this great insight.

I can't understand the reasons for not copying exactly the ETA 7753, if your going to tool up and create a new movement, may as well copy one that's proven and has spare parts available... Thanks for the comments.

It's been a long while since I have done one of these. If memory serves me well, the last one was the Asian 2836-2 teardown. So here we go, you know the routine... Some general notes: - chrono subdial and center seconds posts are 0.19mm - main hands same size as the ETA As delivered, the watch was running +20 seconds a day fast, beat was out slightly. Here it is with the caseback off...general views, not very clean as you will see and note... Overall view of the datewheel, immediately you can tell it's no where near the same as a 7753 or even a 7750, check out the width...whoa, it's a wide one... As per normal on any A7750 series, no lube anywhere, and signs of dirty pivots and jewels... That is one wide datewheel, can't imagine why they did this... Just how wide is the new datewheel, well how about this wide, sitting on the bottom is the A7753 datewheel, on top of it with the numerals showing is a ETA 7753 datewheel, note the width differences as well as the placement of the teeth. Forget getting any replacement datewheels except from the Asian supplier. Here is the ETA 7753 datewheel installed on the movement, note the large gap on the inner edge where the teeth are located. I don't care much for this design, or should I say lack of design. Instead of inserting a pin to tension the quick dateset spring, they simply screwd a screw into the bottom of a threaded hole. Not very well thought out, and as I found out during assembly, a real challenge to get the spring in place, before the plate is installed... Here we go, typical as delivered from the A7753 movement and sweater knitting factory , lint and hairs... Teardown pictures, not much left to remove... Well at least one pivot jewel made it under the oiler... One of the common defects on all A7750 series, Hairspring is not concentric, the bottom coils are closer together than the top ones, this has to be fixed or you will have rating problems... And the rest of the jewels are dirty, as per normal... So on to the big question, is the new A7753 the same as the ETA 7753. We already know the DW is a no-go, what about form, fit, and function? First up, installing my 196 ETA 7753 into the new case, and it is a direct fit, everything lines up correctly and works. So the A7753 is a swap into the case of an ETA 7753. For comparison, here is the ETA 7753 dial side view of the datewheel, I think we are going to have a big problem with our next test... Ok, new dial from the A7753, installed on the ETA 7753, ouch, this one is way off... By comparison, here is the 196 dial installed on the ETA 7753, note that the date is centered up and down and side to side... Servicing is next...so off to the Ultrasonic cleaner for a cleaning, 3 rinses, a blow dry (and set )later, all the parts and pieces are inspected under a 10X loupe, no problems or defects noted other than the normal A7750(3) issues that exist on all these movements. All the defects and problems are fixed, and the movement is assembled and oiled and tested at each stage of assembly... Example of oiling... Hairspring has been fixed, note that all the spacing between all the coils are the same... The escapment is the most critical part of any movement, if it's not checked, adjusted, and oiled correctly you are going to have timekeeping issues. The drops are checked on each pallet and on each of the 15 escape wheel teeth, the draw is checked and so is the run to the banking, along with the balance wheel end and side shake, hairspring centering, horizontal and vertical, regulator pin spacing etc. One of the most critical oiling requirements is the escape wheel to pallet stone interface. Oil is only allowed on the face of the pallet as well as the escape wheel, there should be a slight "wedge" of oil between all of the escape wheel teeth, and the entry and exit stones, here is what to look for... So we have our movement fully assembled, on the tester it goes, and after adjusting the beat and rate, here is the timing in all 3 positions adjusted to +7 seconds fast per 24 hours...it's running excellent, as good as any ETA... General views of the final assembly, you can note how much cleaner the movement is now after cleaning...compared to the first pictures... Here's that spring again, hooked in place and ready for the calendar plate to be installed. Don't let it's mild mannered appearance fool you, it's a bastard waiting to snap off into never never land...hold your breath until you get the next plate installed... Overall thoughts... The movement is no better or worse than any A7750. There has never been any problems or concerns with any A7750 series movements, at least no problems that a correct servicing can't address. Serviced correctly, and all the typical defect and issues fixed, and it will be a great movement. None of the ETA parts compatible with this A7753, so if you break something, forget fixing it... Too bad they didn't simply copy the ETA 7753 exactly, especially the datewheel and the minute counter gears. There is no excuse for the datewheel being what it is... Finally, thank you to member w0lf for sending this to me, and prodding me to do a review. My time is very limited lately and I wasn't interested in doing the review simply due to the hours it consumes...but I think this is good for the community, at least you know what I know, and now you can make an informed decision. Thanks for reading, hopefully you find this helpful. If you have any questions, or if I missed something, please ask, I'll do my best to answer them... Update. Dial lume was not as good as I initially thought, so I lumed it in Super Luminova C3 Half the dial lumed, and the subdial at 6 "2", "3", and "6" lumed More views: SUPER Luminova on LEFT, Rep lume on RIGHT Super Lume C3 Rep as delivered lume...

Exactly right! Chrono OFF = No adjustment possible of the tilting pinion.

The dilema with all of these aftermarket crowns is the same, which is more important to you: 1. the correct placement of the crown next to the case 2. the lever touching the crown My choice is always no. 1. The crown should always be installed so that it in the correct location next to the case. Once that's done, you have to adapt the CG lever to the crown's location. If you decide to move the crown farther out from the case (by installing a longer stem, not by simply adding o'rings to the crown and placing the keyless works under stress) you have created a problem. The crown has lost it's support, the case tube no longer holds the sides of the crown secure, and everytime you close the CG lever, you are placing stress on the keyless works. One option is to cut down the CG feet. But that is risky also. If your original crown left you with a small nub of a lever, cutting the CG feet down and moving the complete CG towards the case, not only moves the lever closer to the crown, it reduces the gap in which the crown can move, and switch from winding to time setting. Again, you have caused another fault (nothing is fixable in isolation). Now you CG lever touches the crown, but you can't pull the crown out far enough to set the time, the CG gap is too small... I could go on and on, but you get the idea. Shortcuts don't work. The only true solution is to start with a CG lever that is too long, and custom fit and trim it to fit the crown, which you placed in the correct location to start with. Doing anything else will and does introduce futher faults and issues, I know, I have done and experienced them all.

Love these B&R models because they lend themselves to such nice upgrades. This one arrived in the shop on September 24, finished it up yesterday, 8 day turn time (which is about my average). Work includes: Full servicing: movement disassembled to the last screw and spring, ultrasonic cleaned, 3 rinses, dried, inspected, assembled and oiled to factory specs, and timed and adjusted in 3 positions. Dial and hands lume in C3 A+ Genuine Super Luminova, the brightest and best lume available, glows for 700 minutes. Bezel marker lumed in Genuine Super Luminova BG W9, White daylight, Blue glow. On to the pics: First up is the optical illusion - if you let the camera do the thinking for you you will get the lume colour wrong - note the lume "appears" white, this happens all the time and members wrongly ask for white lume when in fact it's yellow/green. WRONG camera settings, lume is not White. CORRECT camera settings, you can now see the correct colours: Close up shot, correctly exposed to show the details of the lume: And some various pics, 1/6 second exposure: I think the owner will be very pleased...

I am around, just been away for a few days dealing with family responsibilities. You got it exactly right Toad. If someone books an appointment, we chat back and forth, they say they are shipping right away, I reserve your spot in my calendar, sit and wait and nothing ever shows up, why would I want to work with someone who thinks nothing of wasting my time and standing me up. Then months later these individuals want something done, and wonder and ask why they can't contact me. Geez, I wonder why... My response is simple, there are many who do the same work I do, if you want lume work, please contact Kent Parks and make arrangements with him. I have no time for timewasters, or deadbeats, especially those who do it more than once when given another opportunity. @ Ubi You know what is here...I'll be in touch... @zhoon1129 The above is not directed at you. An email and PM were sent to you today, please respond to the email so I know the communication lines are open. 20 days ago you were shipping, we haven't seen or heard anything since then... Communication is the key...keep me informed, that's all I ask.

I thought I was the only one with brainfarts... How complicated to transfer the quickset date? not that complicated, remember it's only the quickset that is transferred, the normal date change is basically the same design. On the ETA 7753 the mainplate is modified to accept the quickset lever, and the top plate with the calendar mechanism is changed as well, so other than a bit of machining on the mainplate, and a new top plate, its' farily simple. I suspect that instead of doing it 100% per the ETA design, they cut corners and re-used what parts of the A7750 they could. Maybe one of the modders from one of the other forums would be able to do a detailed teardown and review for everyone, wouldn't that be a nice gesture on their part.

I think that they only went half way, instead of tooling up and making a new correct larger diameter 7753 DW, they re-used the existing 7750 DW, and probably the top plate as well. This would account for the incorrect placement.

I am not sure what models it's a straight swap, there is so much variation in the 21J auto's, I hesitate to say it is straight swap for anything. You really have to try it out to know for sure.

Are you going to let the members know who did the work?

The best value is to install a genuine Miyota 8215 in place of the asian copy. 99% of the time the Miyota is compatible with the existing 21J. The Miyota is a workhorse, very reliable, rugged, and will outlast 100 cheap asian copies...do it right and do it once...

Agree, it's uneven (all), lumpy (all), the lume is spilled over the sides of the markers (2,4,5,11), the edges are uneven (7), etc, it can't be re-done, applying lume is a one shot deal, try removing it and your into a real mess...sorry...your dial is ruined.

Very well done, congrats, Billy Mayes would be proud of you...

It really depends on the angle of the slope where the crystal meets the case, if the slope is shallow, then you can seat the bezel even if it just fits over the start of the crystal. If the crystal slope is steep, even if the bezel fits halfway down the side of the crystal with finger pressure, you won't be able to seat it fully. Most aftermarket crystals either have too steep a slope to start with, or once installed they extend too far from the case, my experience has been, the bezel has to fit at least 3/4 of the way down, with finger pressure, before I will attempt to press it fully on, if the bezel wont' go down at least to 3/4 and you try and seat it, the crystal will crack, or it won't seat fully and get jammed up... I don't go by size differences, I use the depth of bezel seating with fingers as my guide...

Well done, I have done a number of these as well, it's a very difficult machining job for sure, especially handling such a small piece. But then if it was easy, anyone could do it... Great pictures, very informative, you are very skilled.

Interesting feedback and insight. Thanks for this.

Fantastic pictures. The PVD coating I offer is identical to your pictures, it's the same graphite grey colour, it experiences the same colour change effects depending on the viewing angle, it has the same finish, everything is identical to my PVD, in fact I thought for a moment that you used my pictures in your post I did a double take... Thanks for this, you re-confirmed what I already knew, and you made my day...

Understood, hopefully it will get fixed...

J and I were in Treacle Bumstead just two weeks ago...you must have felt a change in the "force"... Nice to see you around!

If I am around I'll join in...