archibald

Hmm... No response here either. AR - so close, yet so far!

Guys, don't give up on local shops, especially if you live in a large city--I went to many before I found a small, locally owned "franchise" store in a nearby Korean neighborhood who would do it--I haven't had occasion to use them yet (my 51 is with The Zigmeister awaiting a datewheel) but I'll update as soon as they do the job.

Any suggestions?

The good news is that if you have it, you can just glue it in w/ UV epoxy.

The bad news is that if you lost it, I doubt you'll be able to find a rep crown or gemstone replacement.

I reccomend you search the old RWG. Well over a year ago there was a thread in which someone found a source for cheap genuine saphhires, some of which were cut the right size and "flush" like the gen. They PMed me the source and I posted it in the thread w/ their permission. I just wanted to replace the innacurate rep sapphire, but I think I paid 60 some bucks for the sapphire and had a jwleler install it for another 30.

More recently I bought a genuine crown on the bay. You might want to do a worldwide search over there.

I'm definitely NOT trying to rain on this parade, because this is going to be a SWEET watch, but this is another one (Like the daytona, PO Chrono, Daylight, etc.) that will never be accurate and reliable w/ the asia 7750. Even though there shouldn't be a sunken date issue, the subdial spacing will likely always be wrong and if they do mod the movement (apparently, a 3000 piece run is the minimum) we'll all be bitching about our watches going south in three weeks.

I think many (hopefully me included) will go the route folks use to make great daytonas--frankens with the rep case, OEM dials, as many OEM case parts as possible, and a similar-to-oem movement from a watch a lot cheaper than a ROO. Even shelling out the dough for an OEM dial and a movement w/ the DD module, you'll be saving 80% off the price of a gen. That's the way to go, IMO.

Bottom line: It's absolutely fantastic to see the factories moving away from playing the same old boring games of "Who has the slightly better Sub" & "Name-That-PAM" and moving toward attempting other interesting watches. We should all buy one of these if only to keep that trend alive!

PAM 231 with H series movt - AR crystal and the plating is very very good - definitely my choice.

I love the 231--I have a crappily decorsted mvmnt, but it doesn't bother me since the caseback doesn't have the gold hallmarks anyway--that and the weight would make it a half-second spot if I were ever dumb enough ot take it off and hand it to a Paneristi. But on the wrist, it's by far the most accurate gold PAM in existence.

You just want an El Primero copy for your Daytonas

Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

LOL! Maybe so (We do know ubi, don't we?), but there are plenty of uses for an El Primero---Zeniths, Speedmasters, the PO chrono, a couple late 90's Mullers, the 40mm PAM chronos, Ebel 1911 chrono. and on and on..hell, I'd even like a rep el primero to put in the Datron I'm going to have to buy for my daytona project!!!

Panerai Models I would like to see....(maybe if we pretend they're PAMS they'll make them). Seriously, I was looking at my collection the other day: 7, 44mm watches with black dials and crown guards. Do we really need another?

This thread spurred me to do a pretty extensive search--it seems that Atlantictime.com has the best average prices on the watches I like. Anyone bought anything from them?

Buying preowned from a respected seller on Timezone is still the best way to pick up gens, IMO.

Ah, thats disappointing regarding the 005/195 dial . Correct font was what I was hoping for.

Great News!! David please pay special attention to the "A's" They're always wrong on the reps--If you fix that problem you'll sell a lot of dials to people who want to upgrade!

Been absent a while since I have been tending to the big move, but got an e-mail from ashford.com today that all their merchandise is 20% off, automatically when added to cart. They're one of the cheapest place in the US to get a Gen as it is, so it's hard to ignore. Their stock took a dive to below 20cents in the last couple of months, so I imagine it is either a clearance effort, or a last ditch effort to liquidate before their assests become confiscated (been in companies where this happened before).

I think the black bezel Omega PO came to like $1700 or something....and they're watches are all new and same as anywhere else. I got my PO and Aquaracer from them and love both.

So if you're looking for a Gen, check there first. They just might have your deal. They have a Chpoard Mille Miglia that comes out to less than $2000. Too bad I don't have the dough because I have been eyeing that watch for a long time!

You got me all excited...went to buy that Chopard for less than 2 grand and it appeared at slightly over three in my cart w/ shipping, a little more expensive than atlantictime.com and jomashop.com. Maybe the promotion is over?

I would like to treat my wife on yet another rep.

After a beautiful two-tone Omega Constellation (as worn by Cindy Crawford) and sharing my IWC Portuguese (like Sophie Marceau), I think she would like a SS Franck Muller Conquistador with white dial.

These days bigger watches seem to be OK fot the ladies.

Does anybody have a partner that wears his SS Conquistador for man?

If so, was it easy to adjust the bracelet and please include a wrist shot!!

(any wristshot of a Conq for ladies would also be appreciated!)

P.s. yes I know the PP 24, Cartier Tank Fr. and some Rolex or Tags for ladies are also great...

As far as men's FM's on women: Ms. A has completely comandeered the solid 18k Casablanca (39mm X 32mm). I get to wear it maybe once every ten days. As far as the Conquistador goes, the men's version is a mm bigger each direction than the casablanca and considerably thicker...I doubt my wife would wear it.

Unless you're planning on a shared watch, why not pick up the excellent ladies conquistador and fit it with nice pastel colored croc or currently-fashionable-on-ladies-watches stingray strap and a gen dial? The ladies dials are constantly available on ebay in almost every color, and as long as you're comfortable removing and replacing hands (a couple of hours of practice w/ a hand pulling tool on an old beater and it's easy) you can swap the dial in 5 minutes yourself.

Ditto that - I'm too scared to even wear mine now and it's one of my favourites too. Now it will just sit in a drawer gathering dust (assuming the mineral crystal comes back in one piece).

I feel your pain, Finepics and Jonathan. These projects can suck, bigtime. I wonder if it would be worth it to see if someone can do a very cheap run of AR glass--maybe for the price of 1 sapphire crystal we can each buy 3 glass ones to have on hand as sapres, and thus not be afraid to wear the watches.

On a general note, until someone does the dial and back, my 212 won't be getting enough wrist time to scratch the crystal anyway. Now that's the project--a correct 212 dial/back/rotor-foil package!

Going to buy a "golded" Tissot. I know the coating is very tough and much longer lasting than gold electroplating but I have never seen one in person. Any experience?

I've always heard that the principle advantage was that you can get a durable plated surface on steel which is very difficult to do w/ electroplating.

As far as the looks, about a year ago I was looking for a (unsuccessfully) for a source for gold PVD plating and ran accross an Web article about the process on some industry website, which I can't find now. One of the the things they were touting about PVD aside from it's durability was that it didn't have the "plated look" I have no idea what the "plated look" is-- I've only been tell a well-plated watch from a solid one by weight--but the PVD industry people apparently think there is a difference. Maybe the PVD goes on better, and avoids some usual flaws visible in electroplated watches?

Also about a year ago I posted a link about some chinese company claiming to make gold PVD plated tungsten alloy watches which weighed the same as 18k---looked pretty good to me and I was hoping the technology would bleed over to repmakers, but haven't heard anything since.

Just for durability alone, I'd love to see PVD gold on our reps.

Sometimes it takes a while--in this case six years--but the American people always figure it out. Unchecked and arrogant power has never set well with us, and two days ago we proved it still doesn't.

Ken, a couple questions:

Are all of the suits 3-button?

And, in the RWG anal spirit: is there pic stitching on the lapels a la the "gens," or will my tailor have to mod them? I'm dead serious--out here in DC, lack of hand stitching would be an instant and fatal tell on a suit purporting to be an armani...

If you ask most non-watch people how much an Omega watch costs, they'll guess at $300. Try it; you'll be amazed.

That's exactly right, and Panerais even less (funny how the non-WIS can sense that, based on materials and per-piece mass production costs alone, both Panerais and Omegas probably should sell in the 300-500 range--the intrinsic value on those watches is the name, which have no meaning to the non-initiated.)

Anyway the only time I've been legitimately "called out" was by the PAM WIS ninny at the local AD--don't forget that probably 95% of the people who would say "nice fake, buddy" couldn't begin to tell you why the watch is a rep--they're just making assumptions.

My obsession w/ accuracy is just a part of the fun of the hobby. Deep down I know spending 500 bucks on mods likely won't fool (or not fool) a single one of the people who meet me. Normal people don't know what sub crown guards are supposed to look like, and don't care to know.

BTW, if you ever do get called out by an in-the-flesh paneristi I reccomend saying, "Did you actually think I'm stupid enough to pay 5 grand for a $500 watch? I'm insulted."

Thanks for the info. Another movement manufacturer is always a good thing. I am hopeful there will be others. It is interesting that Swatch is pulling out of various segments just as sales of mechanical watches are growing at a substantial rate. Then again ETA movements is such a small percentage of their overall sales it won't matter. As long as there is money in it, new manufacturers wil come and the Seagulls of the world will improve their movements.

And if the "Swiss" are not careful, movements will go the same way as cars (at least in the U.S.). Today the higher end Japanese cars are getting better reliability marks than Mercedes and BMW. Mercedes sales are suffering as other countries and manufacturers get better and better.

Just curuious, is this business strategy--pulling out of a market then suing the [censored] out of anyone that steps up to fill the gap--an old strategy in buisiness or a copy of some new 21st Century schtick US tech companies have raised to a high art--Microsoft, HP, MySpcace, etc.

It seems that I'll be the first one to make an review for all of you guys.Based on what el has told me it's just a slight smaller from a gen....1mm.....since the gen with that 1mm extra is really huge...I mean huge...maybe it's not that bad that these guys have resized this one a bit

So I'll be ordering one in next 2 or 3 days and as soon as I get it I'll post some wristshots what I persume interests you the most.

Cheers

I think some of the websites that people are getting the measurements from are wrong--I bet cartier dissmeniated some confusing or mistaken info. The piece I tried on last week at the local AD was a lot more than a mm bigger than the non-chrono which is the same size as the chrono rep.

Great news if it's true. Hopefully it is screwed in, but is it still a base metal that is coated? Will it have problems like the 187 with scratches showing through to base metal on the markers?

My guess--and only a guess-- would be still rhodium plated since the gen markers are white gold, right? They probably felt the need to rep the extra shine...but hopefully this time they put a couple of extra mils for you sub fanatics.

Just got my new strap for my watch, a Mario Paci XI. I love it and the buckle is great. My new gen Speedy is getting ZERO wrist time and feels small after wearing this sucker. It's got a few deep scratches but I am awaiting a tube of Polywatch and a nice polish cloth that should fix them up.

Nice combo! Did panerai ever make a california dial marked panerai? Sorry but I still need a little status symbolism with my vintage watches...

Whoah...there's actually a chance these can be genuine? What am I missing? Rolex changes crown versions by putting foil over older crowns? Of repmakers change Rolex crown versions by using poil over genuine pieces? Very interesting!

This is one of the UGLIEST watches I have seen so far. I could put up with the 187 because it was a chrono, but this thing is nasty. These were meant to be deep sea diving watches and should stay there in the depths and darkness. Is everyone jumping on the band wagon because it says panerai, or are peoples' taste getting worse?

Keep in mind everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is just mine. If you like this good for you, but if I pass you on the street and laugh don't be mad.

Maybe if Freud was around he could explain the demand for Panerai Subs, but I sure can't....more rep R&D money down a 2000m deep [censored]....

Love those vintage tools. They translate to true hand craftsmanship and skill. But that PAM dial collection is what really makes me jealous...especially if any of them are gens!

One of the first reps I saw on a web site was a Zenith and I loved it. Then all of the Zeniths disappeared. What happened to them? Any coming back?

Usil

Sweet! Where can we get the dudeless version? Does the small seconds work and the escapement move?

Absolutely! 'Back door' stock is a common phenomenon where items are made under licence in the Far East.

There is of course the point that ETA themselves grade their movements and mark them accordingly (The Zigmeister did a fantastic post about this over on old RWG) so they are willing to accept there are tolerances in their product.

Furthermore, ETA will use different parts in production depending on availability (eg. the shock protection on the balance wheel can be either Incabloc or KIF-Flector, distinguishable by the different shape of the retaining spring).

I have absolutely no doubt this is 100% true, and also that there are many "not-really-quite-ETA ETA's in our reps, but just as a matter of real world experience: I have never had a problem with a bum movement in a rep if it was 1)verified as one of the above mentionted "versions" of an ETA movements or 2) a decent model of chinese movement that I had serviced immediately. I have had problems with 1)crappy chinese movemnts (Asia 7750, asian movements with complicatons added at the rep factory, etc.).

It is very interesting to investigate our movements...but I hope new collectors don't worry too much, and as a result clog the forum and dealers' inboxes with "Is this movement really a real swiss ETA" questions.

Statistically, they can expect to never have a problem as long as they:

--buy watches powered by a movement that a respected dealer advertises as ETA and

--send all of their seagull, etc. powered reps to a smith as soon as they're delivered.

Once you cut past all the rumor, speculation, and ass talking that goes on about movements on this forum, there are only 2 basic questions:

1)Is a given movement made in an ETA factory or at a chinese factory that makes similar movements and/or near-exact copies of ETA movements?

2)If the movement was made in an ETA factory (no matter where) was it subjected to euqally stringent quality control standards that 100% Swiss mademovements are subject to?

If you have a movement made in China in a non ETA factory all bets are off--quality depends on the movement model (they range from really good to complete crap--do your DD on the search page) and even the individual piece itself (Almost all of our watchsmiths agree that there can be lots of variation between individual pieces)

As far as question #2: A lot of unnecessary teeth gnashing, IMO. Think about it: Given the number of movements ETA sells and the percentage of them made outside of switzerland, they would go out of business in months if they had less stringent QQ in it's non-swiss factories than they do in their swiss factories

Bottom line: If a watch is powered by a legitimate ETA movement, I don't worry. If a watch is powered by a well regarded Chinese movement, I don't worry but have it serviced immediately upon delivery. If a watch is powered by a poorly regarded chinese movement, I don't buy it.