plaifender

To me sounds like Freddy might be hinting to a similar point that David Starkey brought up the day before yesterday. His rationalization is dumb and based on nothingness. He says that the white culture has made the mistake of embrassing black culture through music and style and this has led to the riots. I'm guessing some of you might probabaly agree with him. What he doesn't admit, is that political themes in music have existed forever. The Who, The Sex Pistols.. I mean come on. There's no way that this riot can be boiled down to black culture becoming popular. His argument seems to suggest that white people are even more peaceful. Stupid if you ask me.

I'm american. I live in Spain and am married. Have bought a house here and one day will probably raise a family here. So after 30 years of living of spain, and I identify myself as american I have a problem as well?? If you say yes.. I say f*** you. If you say no, I have no problem, then I ask.. Why do you hold me to a different standard than your Mexican friend you encountered in the street? p.s. Are you "indigenous" Freddy? Last I checked.. immigrants that came to America hardly EVER assimilated to the established "indigenous" population we had in the states. Starting as far back as christopher columbus and the pilgrims.

haha.. congrats.. but I have no idea why you're surprised.. Didn't you have like 1,000 posts within your first month of membership!!! Not to mention Moderator status after barely a year I thought you'd gotten 5K a long time ago!! hahaha Congrats to you S! Keep up the fine work my friend

Kudos Woof. Maybe I should have been a bit more clear from my response, as I made it sound as if being proud were a sin. I'm an american in spain, and will always be "proud" to be one. What I think is dangerous is when you think of how the word proud is used in the context of nationality, regionalism, ethnicity etc. I also happen to be black and 1/4japanese.. If you ask me if I'm proud, then of course I'll say yes... But on a deeper level, it's kind of a silly thing to be proud of. No one ever says, "look, my tongue is pink... I'm proud of it. " The issue of pride had relevance to Freddy's comments because freddy seemed to be surprised that the Mexican seemed proud of Mexico despite having been in America for 30 years. As an example in a different context: I myself am an American living and working abroad. My wife is Spanish and I plan on being in Spain for at least a fairly significant part of my life. In 30 years if a Spaniard walks up to me on the street and I tell him that I love my country the United States, I don't expect him to be surprised that I love the country I was born in. Meanwhile, Fredddy seemed to be surprised when the mexican man told him something to the same effect. I guess to sum it up: "pride" is contextual and has nothing to do with immigrants' decisions in going to another country.

Yeah, seriously. Or at least half-seriously... Do you have something to add woof? Your response is kind of ambiguous.

@ Freddy: I think it's interesting that you infer that there are some cultures that are inherently "better and more successful" than others because of their moral values. What cultures are you specifically referring to, and what do you mean by better? This is blatant and utter non-sense. If you're equating "rap" music and culture to crime and violence.. you're terribly mistaken. Violence has ALWAYS been around.. and there's NO IMPERICAL evidence whatsoever to suggest that there's more or less violence now, than there was when you were growing up. The only thing that's changed is the availability of modern man to kill many people very quickly with the advancement of weapons technology. America is responsible for 200 years of violence and oppression against innocent human-beings that were considered "non-human". EVERY culture on earth has experienced oppression and violence at some point. To ignore that fact and every consequence thereafter is to ignore causes and contributions to the current state of affairs. You talk about "homogeneity" as if it were a positive word. Spain is a "homogenous" society in terms of skin color, does that make spain better than say, France? Does a heterogeneous society have more to worry about than a homogenous society? I really don't think so. To me the word is completely neutral. After 30 years of living in the U.S. your surprised that a mexican man would want to be anything but American, but within your thought process lies the problem. Asian and European immigrants didn't come to America to "Be Americans" (as if being American was some cool fad at the turn of the century). Asian and European immigrants who came to this country, came for economic reasons. The "american pride" part came secondly, and it was something taught to them, not inherent in having an American passport. I'm offended that anyone would second-question the love of any man's home, whether that home be Mexico, Japan or England. Despite what we teach ourselves, pride is NOT positive and does not unite people when the pride is based upon uncontrollable factors that have no merit behind them. Example: Are you proud to be an American? The answer is probably yes, but have you asked yourself why? Why should you be proud of something that you have no control over? Did you ask to become American (chances are probably no). Are you a white male? Are you proud to be a white male? If so, why should anyone be proud of being white, black, brown, yellow or green. Pride should be based on merits and valor and not on inherent physical traits OR circumstances that cannot be controlled. Have you worked hard your whole life? If so, don't you think that you should be proud of yourself for achieving everything you've achieved? In the end, we are talking about a clash of cultures, but we shouldn't be looking at some cultures as bad and others as good. Good and bad exists in all of us, and the discussion should really be about the circumstances of how this anger came to be expressed, not about the negativities of an artistic sub-culture.

Benvenuto!!

Great strap, great watch, bad combo. Something a little sportier might be more fitting for the driver's boutique

Great to have you here. Welcome!

Sorry TeeJay, but if we wanna get technical, the children of immigrants are citizens and unlike many of their parents, often have full rights as any citizen would be. In the film The Godfather, Vito Corleone was an immigrant. His son, Michael (played by Al Pacino) is not remembered or ever thought of in our minds as an "immigrant". What indeed, IS interesting, is the connotation the word "immigrant" has. From a sociological standpoint i think you make a very valid point about immigrant families, but children born to immigrant parents aren't immigrants.

I was in Texas three weeks ago.. What was it that you wanted me to bring you? The forum censored out your word. I'm from Georgia and never carry guns across state borders. Posting a random gun as the solution to this post was neither sensitive nor intelligent. Sorry for my choice of words, but I simply didn't get the joke. Seriously, apologies for any way my words might have offended you.

Agreed. Opening the can of worms about Islamic extremism is a big can, but yes, I would agree that immigrant populations numbers aren't necessarily representative of the amount of coverage they get in the media or this "Clash of Civilizations" that Samuel Huntington first referred to in 1992. If anyone hasn't read it.. I highly advise looking for Huntington's articles which is the basis for LOTS of academic research and theory in the area of globalization, assimilation of cultures and the multiculturalism and europeanization of the E.U.

that's pretty dumb seroberts.. I'm somewhat of a gun enthusiast and I think you're dumb.. Give people guns in London.. that will make things better. p.s I'm assuming from your comments that you're just longing for the day that a riot will break loose in texas so you can use that on some people and teach them a real lesson about justice....

What exactly is so funny about my conclusions? Are they surprising to you? Actually, about 1 year of research on my part. Most data and economic outlooks are projected by independent sources such as universities. In my case specifically, the data that I base my conclusions on is gathered and collected by the Lawrence R. Klein Institute at the Universidad Autónoma de Madrid. Immigrant statistics are easily obtained through Eurostat and the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). Any information you'd like on the subject i'd be happy to share. The only pertinent data that the general public usually has knowledge of is the size of immigrant populations and their rate of growth (at best). The most obvious way that people reach conclusions about immigrants is using the information they already know (immigrant population increases) and correlating that information to the current general economic trends. Thus when economies are good.. immigrants are BOOMING (3 to 5 times more immigrants flowing into destination countries) but no one talks about immigration since everyone is doing well. When economies are bad, generally speaking we see abrupt falloffs of immigrant populations even before countries even release quarterly reports on the slowing of economic growth etc. Thus.. immigrants generally realize there are no jobs before the government even knows it. Yet.. once the economy has slowed, heavy attention is placed on immigrant populations even though by the time this has happened, most immigrants waves have already slowed massively. For example, here in spain, Immigration is a huge issue currently, even though, we're receiving 200% less immigrants per day than we were 7 years ago (when immigration wasn't an "issue" in the media and politics).

The worst problem with discussions like these is the concrete LACK of economical data to back up arguments like "immigrants are an economic strain on our society" According to almost EVERY economic outlook, forecast and immigrant case study in the European union, the burden to the social welfare systems in spain, france, germany and italy is miniscule in comparison to the amount of economic growth that immigration in these countries has produced. Immigrants are on average significantly less likely to use social saftey nets like health care, and social security for fear and lack of knowledge about how these systems work. Yet, when these systems are in crises, immigrants are the first ones to get the blame. In the case of spain, italy, france and the UK, health care systems are under strain from over-extended government ependiture and payrolls. Massive unemployment in spain is causing the government to bleed from within, 21% of people unemployed means that the government is having to shell out unemployment checks (often covering up to 80% of your last job's salary). Immigrants (both legal and illegal combined) receive less than 1% of all ths money spent on healthcare and social security. The other problem faced by this mentality is that it polarizes immigration into a political hot-topic when it has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with economics. Immigrants don't think about what political party is in power when they go to a developed country, nor whether or not they will be seen as a burden. Even when measuring and analyzing data of immigrants that leave their countries for political assylum, the underlying theme is economics, as the oppurtunities that they were afforded in their countries of origin diminished because of their political stance or the internal conflict within their countries of origin. The immigration issue is an interesting sociological discussion when it's politicized but the numbers just aren't there to blame immigration on economic problems. All signs and indicators simply point the opposite way. But most people couldn't even say what the average immigrant earns, and what percentage of their earnings are responsible for economic growth. Working people 100% ALWAYS contribute to economic growth.. and if you look at employment numbers for immigrant workers you'd be astounded to find that in the E.U. immigrants are almost NEVER unemployed. The myth of immigrants "taking" jobs has no economic grounds either. Although it makes good politics. Jobs simply don't work that way. The biggest and most challenging issue that europe will have to face in this century is the increasingly aging population and population decline. At current rates in europe, the population is going to shrink by about 40-50 million people in the next 25-40 years. At that point the problem will be equally as bad as now because we'll have TOO many jobs in europe and not enough people to fill them. Even with the extreme immigrant growth, there is a possibility that immigrant flows will not be enough to meet the demand of the jobs that will be need to be filled in the next few years. Of course, the eu will have no other option that to welcome immigrants as they have in the past (when economies are booming).Europe has always been a place that has traditionally produced immigrants, but the true test of EU will be whether or not it can play the reverse role in accepting and incorporating immigrants into european society. Europe's immigrants never did a good job of adapting to other cultures.. as they tended to simply Kill the native population or breed them out. In less extreme cases their european identities became STRONGER once they arrived to their destination countries (mainly the americas). Imagine if that were to happen in Europe?

great strap but not as perfect as my Toscana Carbon!! haha.. JK. You've got a really nice strap wwww

How'd I miss this discussion!! I'll probably be doing my thesis paper on immigration policy in the EU as the biggest challenge it faces in the 21st century. Don't even know where to start. Everyone from Texas that has commented on this thread.. I can say I honestly do not agree with. That is all for now...

LMFAO haha

DO NOT get the 3135. The movement is crap and completely cloned. Get the swiss ETA2836.

you are officially ALMOST in the jungle.. Rosegold.. EW.. unfortunately no decently priced solid gold models around. The Barichello II is available in solid gold but costs like 3,000usd or something ridiculous. Keep in mind.. that if your brother is around sultans and the like.. they WILL recognize that an AP is STILL VERY much Baller status. The Titanium Chronopassion is still upwards of $40,000. Any sultan or hip-hop "mogul" will know that, regardless of whether the watch is gold or not.

post a picture and we'll tell you Otherwise.. plenty of pictures of various movements have been posted at some point or another. Do some searching.

great thread

I never got an introduction like this... Welcome aboard melissa

UBI... i'm speechless.. your pictures made me drooool I'm on the fence about one of these or a ap diver... I think you just tipped me over the edge. With regards to the pricing of APs... Like someone else said... it's worth the price as long as people are still willing to pay it. Not even 3 years ago... people were paying $1,000usd+ for Hublot Big Bangs. Despite that ridiculously high price, people were still paying the money!!! It's all relative I guess. Maybe 3 years from now we'll be looking at superior APs that cost 250usd instead of 500usd... ya never know in this game.

Genuine watches often also have this blue plastic coating