I'm on my second noob 16610 they are great value just wished I had one eta rather than 21j , I have also got a WM9 16613 , and there aint much of a difference given the massive price diff $49 vs $700+ . The thing I find is that they both seem a tad smaller than the Gen , I dont know what it is but mine appear smaller. If you have the Cash go TC or BK but the alternatives aren't as shabby as some make out. I swim in mine all the time. Most people seem to think all Rollies are fakes and teh only ones who will really know are the Folks on here