Pre V

This is indeed a sad day as I woke up to the news of MJ's death. There's no doubt about MJ's reign in the pop-music world and how his originality rippled throughout the industry, with artistes replicating his art form till today --- which I am sure will extend to the future sounds. A cardiac arrest happens just like an accident, it can happen anywhere, anytime...especially when one is nearing 5 decades of living. RIP... we'll miss your presence.

JJ, I am feeling what you are contemplating right about now. Have been venturing out to the gen forums and am in search of more gens (after my latest acquisition of my latest Tudor Snowy). Your list of wants are seemingly so exact for you know which variations you are desiring --- that's where knowledge comes into the picture. Indeed, the lume job you've posted blew me away --- just about the best I have witnessed thus far. For me, it's always been keeping a good mix but in the past 5 months since I came back onto the rep scene, it's like a crazy rodeo when it comes to acquiring reps. In the past week of so, I have been clearing out those reps which I do not wear anymore and in an effort to help out fellow collectors complete their projects, I feel that if the modded or unmodded reps will help them out in their quest, why not? What comes around goes around, keeping them in the circle perhaps will see the rise of rep-stories in the near future. After all, it's almost always a hovering directional limbo that we all face, sometime in our collecting experience. There are 3 facets to our realms (based on the comments posted here): 1) Gen collectors who have bought reps found that at a fraction of the price, they are satisfied. Subsequently, some have sold their gens, to put their money to better use (eg. investments, paying off debts etc) 2) Rep collectors who have bought gens, and found that the satisfaction that gens bring cannot be compared to reps. In turn, the reps are sold. Some have came back to the rep-world, others have crossed over permanently. 3) Gen and rep collectors who selectively keep their franken, modded timepieces as well as making gen purchases (as and when a good deal arises). The journey to them means more than buying a completed assurance off the shelves. Whichever dimension one collector belongs to, it all boils down to the horological love that one embraces in accordance to his or her financial capabilities. If you were to hit a 1st prize on a Lotto, Super7 or 6/49 tommorrow, and ended up with millions, will you change your collecting patterns? That's for sure a hard question, for there are many other interests in our lives that make up the mosiac-ness in us. I know that I will go crazy on Vintages Rolexes, Panerais, perhaps Patek too?

Hi all, I got this Patek in a trade several years ago but never got a chance to positively ID it. Been researching online but to avail. So wondering if there are any Patek experts out there who can ID this timepiece. Not sure what movement is embedded but sure is keeping very good time. The sound of the movement is soft but audible. Definitely not the typical movement as the dial is a: 1) 2 register with "Seconds" at 3 o'clock 2) "Hour" at 9 o'clock 3) Singular minute hand Adjustment of time is via small crown at 12 o'clock.

I often find myself in this situation --- abeit sticky and always around the block, I tend to keep the feelings gained from genuines apart from reps. It's always been a toss and turn, and seperation of such feelings hasn't been easy. As I venture out in the world of gens, something just pulls me back into the sea of reps-frankens-hommages-projects.... There's no question about the real deal at all, but bearing in mind that the real deals do have their variation. One can debate the notion of genuines undergoing impeccable QCs and QAs while reps don't. It does sink in to our perception that " why don't we just get rid of our reps and clean-slate ourselves with genuines, after all, that genuine feeling surpasses the rep, a Rep will always be a Rep." --- maybe, definitely maybe..... But until I come to terms of the full satisfaction of genuines will supersede that of replicas, I will always remain in both spectrums. With the Submariner Red in question, will it be possible to acquire a project piece close to accuracy at a fraction of a price of a genuine? The answer lies in the existence of these forums where knowledge of the know-hows transpires the actual workings and achievements towards perfection. Let's face it. We all like to work on something that we can call our own. The process is intriguing and propels us to another, and the other..... but like everything else in life, once we've owned or possess that finished product, we yearn for something more, be it genuine or another franken. The essence of greed lies in all of us, the wanting more, the needing more. Wristing my genuine SD at the moment (its been a long time ---almost 30 days), does empower me to a certain extent but 2 days from now, an MBW will most likely take over for another extended round of wrist time. What works for some doesn't neccessarily work for others --- individualism at work and play. If your decision is to clear off all your replicas, then it's yours and yours only to be made, for that lovin' feeling I can tell is starting to fade away like the leaves in an Autumn setting. It's all good for finally, your realization has devoured your love for reps ---- and your new love for gens I am sure will keep you comforted for a long time to come.

Definitely one of my favourite renditions from Rolex! You've got a prize there!! I love it!

Thanks for all the comments. Indeed the hands are aftermarket. I have already made a comparison with my friend's Snowflake and there are 2 observations (after eddog's findings): 1) The Hour (Triangular-shaped) hand is "shorter". 2) The Second hand's back-portion is "shorter". This has led to a firm conclusion that the hands are aftermarket. After reading this, I gave the seller a call, and he's agreed to send another set of hands from his other Snowflake --- in exchange for this aftermarket ones. Thank you all for your observations. It's the collective eyeballs that will rectify this situation I am facing. Well, looks like gens need to be reworked sometimes, as you never know how some aftermarket parts can be swapped in without collectors knowing. It's through investigation that we are able to deduce such variations. Will keep you guys updated once this "hands-issue" has been resolved. *Watch has been serviced over the morning and is back in my hands. :* TGIF!

Indeed R! Will shoot for a faded one if possible.... An update on the dial: I have checked out the back of the dial and it's a Le Prelet. The letterings are exactly the same as the one you photographed: Will take more photos when I get my macro lens in action. Meanwhile, Snowy's still apart at the moment.

Excellent information guys! This is really a good discussion going on. Thanks for the pictures of the dial-backs. This 7021 will be undergoing servicing in a couple of hours and I will take more updated pics for referencing. Just got an email from CWP and they have the 5513 insert in stock....contemplating on going with CWP or genuine vintage insert... Going to take it slow now. Meanwhile, I will be taking this Snowy to the Rolex centre and get a new bracelet on, so as not to overstretch the original one. All your comments are valuable and much appreciated.

Thanks Stephane, appreciate your reply and insights! Trust me, I was encumbered in fear just now and am still quite skeptical --- which is quite normal for most of us who dwells in both spectrums. So I will take more pictures of the back dial (once the watch has been stripped down) and see if there are any imprints that might confirm the authenticity.

Hey Stephane! Looks like we simultaneously press the "Reply" button. The images of the movement and caseback has been posted. Experts, can we hear some chimes ? be it small or loud? Cheerios!

Thank you my friends! @ kruzer00 and vlydog: The datewheel on this 7021/0 is an alternating "Black and Red" version. I understand all the concerns that have been addressed here. This is the 1st time I am venturing out in the Tudor genuine territory and having heard of a limited 1:1 Snowflake dial copies a decade ago got me shivering for a while a couple of hours ago. When this Snowy arrived, immediately I took her to see a long time Tudor collector to have her examine, under both naked and microscopic-aided eyes. The case checked out OK with the correct engravings of serial and model number. The bracelet and end-links too are OK. The bezel insert is definitely an aftermarket but no biggie as I am looking to have it replaced with a gen 5513 insert with tritium pearl for a match. Now, the big question is of course, the DIAL. In the photographs, one can't really see the apparent blemishes in between 11 and 12 o'clock, but there are fading lines. So for the past couple of hours, my collector friend has been researching online for 7021 references and told me that the dial might be questionable. Having read Ubi's reply on red's thread on help on building a Franken Tudor, I saw his postings of his 2 gen dials. Immediately, I sent out an email to him citing Ubi's references (thanks Ubi!). As he has a Snowflake himself but in the 9xxx series, there were variations. However, it was Ubi's reference pictures that helped us ease up on the questionability of this Snowy. The dial on this 7021/0 is very similar (if not identical) to Ubi's dials. I checked out the fonts distancing, fonts shape (especially the "O" with the left curve being thicker than the right curve of the "O"). So I was somehow reassured....*takes a breather* This beauty has been wristed on me for the past couple of hours but somehow, the second hand seems to be stopping intermittently --- which spells out the need for a full service and strip down. In the next 24 hours, I will have my watchmaker strip this baby down for a full-servicing and at the same time, check out the dial. @ Ubi : I have placed the MC 7032 on hold for now since I have plonked quite a stash out on this Snowy. Just so happened that I recieved a contact from someone who has a Snowflake dial for sale --- this has transpired into a possible 2nd Snowflake but this time round a Franken. We'll see how that goes. Meanwhile a "Moonwatch" is calling out to me, the vintage versions. Once again, it's been my dream to own a piece of historical goodness and thanks to Ubi, Lani and the rest of you Rolex fanatics that showcased your "Rolex Only" collections that made me take this leap. Gens or Frankens, I love them all...no discriminations for the timepieces have their own individual stories and distances covered. Here are the original images from the shores at Bay:

Having done some research online with regards to Tudor's Submariner range, in particular the Snowflake --- in reference to the angular-shaped hands that spells unique in comparisons to the lollipops. 2 years ago, the prices for genuine Tudor Snowflakes were hovering in the range of USD $ 1700-2500 depending on age, condition, and box & papers availability. These days, they range between USD $ 2500 and onwards. Condition wise, give or take, these are vintages and I believe there are safe queens, but queens are not what I am looking for. I am looking for a Snowflake that have seen places and been exposed. So last week, I was on the bay and this 1968 Tudor 7021 caught my eye. At 41 years old, this 7021 is indeed in pretty good condition with fair amount of desired scars. You bet! I was in love. Picked up the phone and called the seller and after a short negotiation, the deal was sealed. This beloved snowflake just arrived minutes ago, so you guys are just about the first to view this Tudor, one that I will wrist very often. Just this week saw the sale of a Steve McQueen 5512 "Circa 1967" sold at a whopping USD $ 234,000 at Antiquorium. Talk about vintage crazy people....I guess I have became one of them today.

Thanks!

Hi all, Just pop the caseback of an oldskool PAM49 and wondering what movement this is. Thanks for your input.

I think it looks just symmetrically fine Ubi! Had some lopsided ones on my projects and spent some time re-adjusting....problem is : the more you adjust, the more you want it perfected, with the 3 and 9 lined up, the more observant you get, the more picky you become. I've learnt that near-perfection is just as good as perfection.

Very nice Rolex collection all of you have! Genuines: Sea-Dweller ref. 16600 GMT-Master II ref. 116710LN Frankens: MBW 1665 DRSD MBW 1680 In the hospital now for a loose rotor and check-up.....

Congrats Nanuq! This 1665 DRSD is the Creme de La' Rolex creme! I can't imagine being in your place right about now but I sure can feel it through the pictures! What a historical keeper!

Bruno, is that a service Tropic 39 or Superdome Tropic 39? Divano, love your DRSD! Am in the process of modding mine up and the price list of parts I have been getting from those at the Rolex forums, goodness....it's will be in the thousands if I were to go all out. and that's the fun part of it. Is your 1665 still using the MBW insert?

Thanks for the kind words my friends! Yes I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of the "upcoming" prevendome dials Ubi! Your Pre A 002 is fantastica! dluddy: Your collective quality PAMs never ceased to amaze me. coolfire: Appreciate your concern. It was and still is a rough time for me. I am sure we'll be able to meet up one day and view these pieces together. You've got a great collection yourself too!

If this quest ever ended, it will be in the event of the sudden stoppage of my living years (which quite incidentally almost ended 7 days back --- involved in a serious vehicular accident which I walked away with a couple of scratches). To take my mind off the traumatization waves that are tiding in, I have decided to maintain, if not, strengthen my passion into my projects. So here we go....some updated pics and timepieces. This day, 2 more Pre A 0002 Luminor Base were completed with the help of FGD's brilliant dials, T's 48 crowns and Davidsen's case and swiss movement. The most recent mod on my 201A was the stroke of luck when I found EL's 201A caseback in NOS condition. Indeed, this case is very thick compared to DSN's 201A caseback. This just about marks the completion of my 5218-201A.

This is definitely good news...perhaps we should all get Verified Business Accounts to enjoy such savings....substantial it may be in time....

Hey swdivad! Where have you been my friend? Still remember Quarks? He will be headed back down-under in a couple of weeks. Beautiful 196 DLCs!!

Love the 111!