EuroTimez

Oh btw, my contacts in china told me that the price of NEW ETA dropped by like 5-10 usd a watch ---which is good for me--- because most dealers in GZ (not talking about our little community but about general dealers out side of the forum too) have stepped over to COPY ETA, so the price dropped slightly to balance it out... but 5-10 usd is not much...

Great post RobbieG.. Gen new ETA are available but like robbieG mentioned they're quite expensive, this I can tell you as I know the buy-in prices. The movement is however lower than 200 usd, as I think they the factories do buy them in by the 1000's. I hear that the agencies there are a sort of mafia-based (must be too, they bribe CN goverment with money, luxury cars, etc, I hear a few inside information) The different agencies will fight each other for competion sake, but will work together when there is a treat or a new agency coming up... the heads or al least the ppl running managing also come generally speaking from same/nearby cities and are of one tongue. It might sound god-father like but it is some-what reality. I heard some info how they get ETA movements; They run it thru official HK watch companies that are really big and is really 100.000 movements alot?! It may appear to be alot but do you know how many millions of watches are being produced so on a bigger global scale it isn't really that much, how many millions do ETA sell in asia b4 they stopped doing this ?! I know MBK buys his movements separately from within TH. I know his stuff is real as I have all my watches caseback open and marked. on the side note he also sells ETA-COPY movements so if you don't deal with the boss but with the shopfront you will most likely receive an COPY-ETA movement in your MBK (they will say anything to sell). In a matter of fact I talked to him a few days ago to confirm a larger order and he said I had to wait several days because the ETA movements he got were low and had to order new ones. I know one source where I can also purchase ETA movement from an real official company here in TH at around 120-150 usd a piece but it may take several months to be had. So I don't think there isn't any ETA movements around. I think it's just that the cost-price of ETA is getting expensive and some watches and some factories are switching and some only to be had WITH COPY ETA MOVEMENTS. some ROLEX DD factories will only supply with COPY-ETA for instance. I had one order where I had to make 2 watches into 1 because the one he ordered came only with COPY ETA movement but he PAID for GEN ETA movement, so had to get the dial + movement from one factory but case and body from another. Personally I've seen quite a few ETA-COPY brake down so I just don't sell them generally unless at client command. My prices are also more realistic generally starting at around +/- 300 usd for NEW GEN ETA movements. Just think of it what RobbieG is saying is very accurate try getting a gen ETA at 209 usd!!! Forget it! Dealer must also make a living! The case and all the rest is a piece of cake for the factory to make but the movement pushes the prices is most expensive ---most if not all bigger dealers have stepped over to COPY ETA, that's why your seeing them so much on the forum, perhaps they will throw in a few GEN ETA's to some members who are well known / outspoken (as some members have openly said that they get special services from certain dealers as they were with them from the beginning which is in itself nothing wrong with---. Been telling this for a while... 1.COPY ETA (readily available and most easy to be gotten) 2.RECYCLED ETA (rusted, mixture of copy and gen etc) 3. REAL ETA (+50-100 usd more expensive then COPY and more difficult to be gotten) Two Problems, 1.Customer wants it cheap and will believe too-good-to-be-true advertisements. 2.Dealer blantantly lies (and still does), and can always hide under the vaque cloud of "I dropship --how should I know", oh it's an incidental case (as many won't complain "openly", don't know to how differentiate, will never touch the caseback" so it's really profitable to be dishonest! Of course they know coz they order from the factory, if you pay 100+ usd more at the factory and you're a so-called BIG BOY believe me they know.... I mean even you guys know, so how can BIG BOYS with connection to the factory NOT KNOW.... but why would they sell you the real deal if they can save 100 usd on a massive scale 100 usd x1000 watches = 100.000 usd.... And I think they sell alot more than 1000 watches so.... GO FIG. It's not like you been lied to before... Replace a few that openly complain, keep the difference of the ETA vs ETA copy!!!... I guarantee tho that mine are GEN ETA MOVEMENTS, and It may be proven/disproven at any time...

@ ubiquitous, that shot you took of the PP in your hand is very cool, the dial really pops out nicely there... Dammit i hate you (in a good way You have the PP in your hand like that, I had to have different lights --now I use a home-made lightbox ...for all things!-, a big camera (Sony R1) and alot of time just taking pics, I already have hard time taking wristshots So you all like the PP Nautilus?! I must admit they really have something special, the dial is superb, didn't realize it until you see it in person! here a few more....more pics --pictures don't do the watch justice for more pictures please go HERE Don't worry can get any Nautilus that MBK holds with GEN ETA 2824-2 movement!!! if you need a specific variation ---let me know "specifically" (pref with pics) ..... ---I personally wouldn't recommend the COPY ETA version just like I don't recommend Ladyboys (thailand they're too many and hard to tell the difference... if you can't tell the difference you're screwed!!! -haha) the real deal is slightly more expensive.....but hej who am I to judge, just my 2cents?!---- In the meantime enjoy... My favorite version; BLUE DIAL! Grey This MBK one has a DOT at 3 -but mbk also them without dot?! --accuracy?! Deep Blue Black A little PP bonus. Aquanaut; NEW VERSION AQUANAUT is also AVAILABLE but pics will be taken tomorrow and posted in couple of days...

see Rolexman (TAG) it wasn't that bad after all gud one gud one SCOOBS!

That is 100% sure a ETA copy movement!!! Guaranteed! The first 3 pics I'm talking about in the first post!!!

Hi MArk (rolexman) nice review, very good shots. Like to see it when you put the GEN ETA DW in. about the DW allignment let's first of all remember we're talking about fractions of fraction of mm. I think it's exagarated to say it is disalligned. Pictures also appear way bigger then real life watch. Generally in regards to DW: It is very hard to get straight as I don't make the watches, it has sometimes something to do with the printing... we even tried to allign it even better at my watchmaker, but this turned out to be useless and time-consuming which I won't try again (all the hands need to be taken off, dial, then the DW and then reseated, then checked if it is okay etc.. What I think is most important instead of "trying to hold me accountable to interpetations which can be broad in regards to DW" I think it's most important you get a watch that functions the way it should "as a rep" + QC that I do which is reality -no white lie-. Which dealer can offer you this service?! Some dealers don't care if you're DW is Totally off... no control, For all interested please read my policies, what to expect and what NOT on my website www.eurotimez.com / about us.... According to Rolexman the date is alligned, but even if it wasn't (like on a fraction of mm)..... un-alligned datewheels (remember we're talking about fraction of a mm which is zoomed out from a picture) is a commen flaw that I cannot do anything about.... even GENS can have this issue. If it was really like TOTALLY unalligned like it was HALF HALF of the screen then okay you have a legit case--- I wouldn't sell it like that. That is my interpetation. But please think from a dealer perspective, try returning a watch to the factory and tell them the DW was fraction of a fraction of a mm un-alligned, then when after 5-10 replacements (which I won't get from the factory, they will stop selling me any watches if I would be so anal) you discover that all watches have this slight un-allignment because of the "printing" for instance. Then think that I don't sell one watch a week, I sell many watches, and I have many orders going which all need to be ordered, QC, shipped etc, so I cannot spend a week trying to fix a slightly un-alligned DW. If FXRANDY even says some gens have worse allignments, so really it is hard and let's REMEMBER we're talking about REPS at REPS prices, NOT GEN PRICES (lets be realistic)... my QC is really afforable for everybody, I'm not asking 120+ usd for it, generally I'm 20-40 usd more expensive than the top asian cartel dealers (who drop ship, no QC, no nothing) my prices are incl QC + added value + free registered airmail shipping, also can ship from within EU, and currently have low rates on optional EMS / Within EU shipments (as part of the cost we pay from our own pocket). Hope this helps to give some insights of my QC...and services...

Got off the phone today with MBK / MBW, chatted with him a bit, and I asked him several days ago to make a 5513 dial in white! So today I follow-up on it and he agreed and have it already ordered from his factory. So stay tuned as I will get them as soon as they're done Check my section for other MBK watches, or even better my website www.eurotimez.com --eurotimez catalog/MBK He said however or I might be mistaken, that he didn't made the 5513 in white writing before. So I don't know how tribal could have gotten a white 5513 dial -you sure it MBK?-. Maybe I heard it wrong as sometimes I get lost in our conversations as I order stuff and we chat about all sorts of things. He said it would take about a month to complete the dials, so I'll be the first to know when its done he said.

I think you would have to wait for TRIBAL review for that one! He knows the WM9 (which is quite expensive) and soon he will have the new EUROMARINER so lets see what he says shall we?... Please take a look at this topic http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...mp;hl=eurotimez Hope this helps...

Hi Perry, Iceberg is right, the dial is not worth much as it's quite incorrect, the DW is quite off --as in very off--. The movement depends price depends on the age, what you did with it --is it abused?!-- and if it is a gen ETA, because MBK sells also COPY ETA movement... I have a special agreement with him that I only GET REAL NEW ETA in my MBK / MBW watches ( i have them double checked-inspected at my watchmaker anyways but so far he has always honoured his word with me ) ... but if you don't know the boss and you buy from the shop-front / staff they will sell and tell you anything.... so it depends on the state of the movement. And yes, MBK did made Daytona 6263 -- I saw it myself, with a slim case, but no A-symetrical pushers-- so it is flawed but still an MBK made Daytona!!! But no modern Daytona, he sells modern Daytona's but he told me that it is not his made but CHINA factory made --- with other words he told me that it's the same as the CHINA daytona which is fairly accurate but sec @ 6 will still be a hit/miss kinda thing...

You got 3 grades, 1.Copy ETA 2. Second grade (recycled, old stock, hybrid between ETA and Copy ETA, rusty ones etc) 3. NEW ETA (this is the one I sell). At 240 usd, and at 219 usd if I look at my buy-in rates they won't have anything left... 219 is out of the question!! The 2824-2 are very expensive more than the 2836-2 so IMHO I doubt it is a gen or it must be old-stock/recycled.... If Rodwc would take some pictures of the movement, I'll take a look at it... because COPY ETA also have stamps and engravings on them... I need high quality pics from different sides tho... But the best way according to my watchmaker who opens every single watch-case-back, said the best indication is to look at the ROTOR, take off the rotor and you will see the difference if you know where to look for... But at 219 usd that is close to impossible! I just have my doubts, perhaps some dealers would like to do volunteer work or maybe they have a good heart who knows?! I could be wrong.... You got 3 grades, 1.Copy ETA 2. Second grade (recycled, old stock, hybrid between ETA and Copy ETA, rusty ones etc) 3. NEW ETA (this is the one I sell). At 240 usd, and at 219 usd if I look at my buy-in rates they won't have anything left... 219 is out of the question!! The 2824-2 are very expensive more than the 2836-2 so IMHO I doubt it is a gen or it must be old-stock/recycled.... If Rodwc would take some pictures of the movement, I'll take a look at it... because COPY ETA also have stamps and engravings on them... I need high quality pics from different sides tho... But the best way according to my watchmaker who opens every single watch-case-back, said the best indication is to look at the ROTOR, take off the rotor and you will see the difference if you know where to look for... But at 219 usd that is close to impossible! I just have my doubts, perhaps some dealers would like to do volunteer work or maybe they have a good heart who knows?! I could be wrong....

Hi, If the DW is a problem I can have them MADE, yes I said that correctly Have them CUSTOM MADE... I just lack the KNOWHOW of how the gen should look like, does anybody have a spare GEN DW or the blue-print for the correct DW...... (need to order them by 2000 pieces so better get them done well the first time ) Then we can get something going??? I even looking into getting some dial produced, in contact with some factory but Again I lack the KNOWLEGDE and I'm fearful that they won't do a good job as it's quite costly, they even said I can have better lume if I provided them with the stuff.----lets keep that for the future--- But the DW should perhaps be a good start??? The noob are great watches, really for it's price tag, I sell them fully inspected at 120 usd... (without inspection it's no use to purchase one as 80% will have minor/major flaws) I love them dont get me wrong! ( I got 3 of my own, one on a leather strap DG2813, one on a silicon rubber strap DG2813, one ETA version on SS strap) Yet I personally feel it lacks the feeling of MBW / MBK, like if you ever had an TW or MBK / MBW you know what I mean, I been talking to MBK alot and he told me a thing or two, he says his cases and straps are made of a higher grade steel... I don't think cutting out the Noobdial slightly larger is a solution on a massive scale, it's too nerve recking very creative solution tho if you got the skills for it... Also everybody has they're pet-peeves and to me the DATE-MAG was one of them ... I know many ppl hate the ENGRAVINGS but personally I kind of like it --doesn't bother me--, it's really not that visible on the wrist, and I talked to MBK and he will have the ENGRAVINGS Re-done in the near future... The engravings will only be HUGE and OBVIOUS to the ppl that HATE it, because when you focus on something that bugs you, dispite how small it in reality is -- it will "appear" that a mouse is an elephant... It's very subtle but at the GTG Tribal can show it to you! all of the above are going to him first

YEP Mickey you got it right! More than the Noob but a whole lot less than the MBK , rehaut depht on this one and the glass height is better than the noob, I think that the teeth like BK said in his review about all the 11610 is suppose to be sharp in which MBW / MBK scored the highest grade - the noob failed slightly in that aspect- and the case I'm using MBW for this Euromariner is exactly that, gen bezel construction, fat tube, better crown, bigger accurate date -but not too big like the standard MBW / MBK 11610. Lets focus on TRIBAL REVIEW THO --I dont want to take away the show--... The first batch he should have in 1 week or so... so stay tuned

Hi Frank, No worries, thanks for the feedback. I think (but I'm not certain let experts confirm) that it can be a bit different from gen submariner to submariner... the date mag. yes you are right it's not completely filled the gen but neither is the euromariner if you look closely there is space around the date... its just kind of hard to take a straight shot good shot. NOOB VS EURO GEN (this gen looks slightly bigger than the picture you send) EURO VS NOOB

These pictures aren't photoshopped in any sense (I don't even have the time for it, but I'll take it as a compliment that you like my pictures Only thing I did was... only RESIZE for Web (as you dont want to see 2mb with 2500x2000 pixels for one shot) and My watermark on it... A and the date isn't 3x (which is way too big, IMO there isn't any rep which has 3x, I think the MBK is more like 2.7x or 2.8x slightly too big) .... see this pic... MBK / MBW vs EUROMARINER, the noob was slighlty too small, the MBK was slightly too big, but EUROMARINER is reallly spot on IMHO... please note that it's quite hard to shoot the date-mag as you need the right ANGLE and distant, light etc and esp hard with two reps next to each other but I can tell that it is really close if not spot on to the gen, then any other rep I've seen. Altho it might be a bit "wrong" to praise your own watch, the date-mag has always been more or less my pet-peeve and this time IMO it's pretty darn close. MBK (2.8x) vs EURO (2.5x) NOOB (2.3x) GEN

It's quite nice, a bit busy like Capice said but very nice indeed. I just personally have never been a fan of Rubber straps, perhaps with leather would suit me...

Tribal... hejjj You got Mail

No ROLEX ENGRAVINGS ROLEX ENGRAVINGS REHAUT and DATE MAG....EUROMARINER COMPARED TO NOOB... I'll let Tribal have the first batch of EUROMARINERS so stay tuned to his posts/review guys Very excited myself to have Tribal do a review for the whole community, can't wait

Double post...

eh do you guys mean this one??? please take a closer look to the dial, I call this EuroMariner and JohnG is right, the rehaut is really quite good but the picture wasn't that accurate to the MBK watch unless perhaps it's an older version...

That is not me or my partner... that is all I can say... Look also at the picture I think it is a gen... look at the CG it is too perfect, look at the DW.

@ Vlydog, I ordered the watches, but at the time MBK was in CHina and told his ppl to ship me 2x 5513 with 5513 dials.... However when I picked it up 2 days ago it had a 5512 dial on it.... I have to reorder your watch again. Should be here in 2-3 days... so please hang in there... Cool project that your setting up... here is your 5517 dial... that came in 2 days ago.

There have been quite alot on this topic, I would respond earlier if I hadn't caught a flu and been in bed... but I'm BACK! There are 3 so called ETA movements available in most reps. 1. Copy ETA (cheapest) 2. Second grade ETA (somestimes, old rusted, recycled, mixed with ETA and COPY ETA, old stock ETA) 3. New ETA ---massively expensive sometimes they buy in rate is 70-100 more usd then price of the COPY ETA movement. So fig out what you're getting! Most dealer didn't care to tell you all sorts of "white" lies (and are still continueing) like ETA 2813 --- which has nothing to do with ETA but is just DG 2813 movement, superlume -- eh superb lume, ETA 2892 ---which turned out to be a SEAGULL, they didn't hassitate do to that so what makes you think you be getting what you paid for NOW?! Jeroen's case is just a tip of a hidden Ice-berg, many if not most don't even know how to differentiate between ETA / COPY ETA even if they open their caseback which most clients won't do. And then if if you discover that it is a COPY movement then how many % will complain openly... The NEW ETA is around it is just not what your getting, because most dealers simply don't care what they give you.... And ppl who do care like PT can only confirm the movement when it is too late... as it already in EU... You should always check by the source... AND ....OH YES..... THEY (the dealers)know what their selling you..... As they have contacts with the factory, and they have to pay bills too.. So if they order a UPO with real ETA from the factory they pay a different rate then when they order a UPO with Copy ETA movement.... Besides that they're close to the factory they should know... Coz even I know this and I'm just a small dealer in comparison. but like I said b4 it is easier to look the other way and play innocent. The dealers most if not all will sell you nr 1 and nr 2, and when ppl like JEROEN discover that it is a COPY (copy ETA comes also with ETA markerings mind you, 99% looks like ETA movement I've seen so many of them)... then it's easy to say "oh it's the factory" "oh this and that".... But I believe that they know as the prices that their selling the So-called ETA 2836-2 or other ETA movements are too low....believe it or not... Problem is two-fold... 1 they (dealers) don't care what you get (outside or inside)... and go for the quick cash... 2. (customer) you want to pay as little as possible and expect to get all the BLING (like TTK once said).... and whats it fast etc etc I sell the UPO with real ETA for 330 usd and I really make minimal profit just for your information... It is 100% guaranteed to be NEW swiss ETA as every single caseback has been opened (AND MARKED by my watchmaker).

The watches coming from china (in thailand I don't got the proper equipment, but I can assure the noobs are waterproof for swimming after silicon grease job, hadn't had one fail yet) From china, all non chrono watches.... All undergo a waterpressure test till 50m --from now there is also a sticker on the watch when it passes the 50m test--- (only NON CHRONO WATCHES, chrono watches wouldn't make sense as their usually only 30m water resistant). It goes into a dry watercompression, all rubbers gets silicon grease and if you open the case back you will see it is marked by my watchmaker that it passed QC. Hope this helps.

@ Spy, Sorry been a bit sick... but I'm BACK! The main difference is the movement. I would go for the asian version because they're much much cheaper than the swiss version... 120 usd for asian. 280 for new swiss ETA (not second grade or COPY ETA those are -50 usd cheaper). The asian comes with an 21.6k movement, while the ETA comes with an 28.8k movement. If you want for the long long long run then go for ETA.. If you want it as an addition to your colleciton but not as a serious keeper go for the asian... I now sell the ASIAN DG 4813 movements 28.8k separetly at 25 usd (if you purchase a watch with it). So then you can have the movement swapped yourself. You would have one spare 21.6k movement just in case anything happens. Hope this anwers your question... Overal build ouside built, looks, quality of the asian vs swiss outside of the movement is the same.. rg Chris