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Exactly. Although I already own a few 1665 cases, I would buy an additional 1-2 1:1 cases in a heartbeat if/when they became available (at a realistic price). And I am sure that just about everyone else like me would as well. Imagine how many truly 1:1 1665 or Daytona cases you could sell on ebay!!!!!!!! In fact, just word-of-mouth sales, alone, would probably flood the marketplace, pushing just about everyone else (not selling true 1:1 cases) to the sidelines. Due to the potential numbers involved, profits from a case retailing at US$200 would be significant & certainly more than sufficient to offset both the development & small production run costs (if even relevant). The only real stumbling block I can see is Rolex (& any other gen makers whose repped 1:1 cases begin flooding the marketplace). The production of a true 1:1 rep Rolex case would test my belief that the rep factory bosses have arrangements with the gens that allow them to conduct their business in a mostly hands-off fashion as long as they are not producing exact 1:1 copies. In addition, I suspect, also, that if people here (at RWG) were involved in the production of such 1:1 cases (considering the knowledgebase available), it would likely spark an arms race with others (like NDtrading, etc, who produce 1:1.1 cases), wherein they would immediately jump on the 1:1 bandwagon, much to the chagrin (or joy, if you are a gen lawyer) of the gens' lawyers. Whatever the case (no pun intended), I bet the rep world would undergo a significant change if a true 1:1 Rolex case suddenly hit the marketplace. Oh, & add a 1:1 dial to the mix (imagine a 1:1 Paul Newman ) & all bets are off. To paraphrase the Vapors - I'm turning Japanese just thinking about it.

No argument there. I just think that if RWG members are involved in the production, the retail price (at least to RWG members, some of whom may be tapped to add to the knowledgebase used during development) ought to be more realistic. And as far as which cases would be good candidates for such an enterprise, I would simply use NDtrading's site as a production guide. I only wonder how long it would take NDtrading (& other sellers of Vietnam-sourced rep components) to drop its pricing (by 80%) once a realistically priced competitor appeared. My hunch is less than 24 hours, which makes clear how utterly baseless their pricing structure is.

Here's mine... The base was the MBK 6538. It is not a good way to start. The best bet would probably be a NDTrading case and go from there. I installed a MY bezel and a Brevet crown so far. It still needs a ton of work. I need a dial, hands, bezel insert, drilled lugholes, etc., etc. It's like everyone says, it's a DIY project.

MBW is okay but the red is too dark. You need a red that *pops*. Start there and then pay attention to the "O" and "L" in ROLEX. Get the right stick markers. I'd go NDTrading, Yuki and then MBW, in that order. You might even see if Kirk Rich can help you out.

I have a 1665 with a bunch of gen parts. I even have a 1570 movement installed by The Zigmeister. I would like to hear some comments about replacement dial besides the gen of course. MBK Yuki NDtrading. Which one is the best way to go. MBK definitively is o.k. but the date does not align well. Thanks Cyb

Options for the 6538 are somewhat slim. The economy option starts with the Silix watches with the chinese movements. Around $100, maybe less. Next is the watches with the eta clones- vintage no crown guard subs- Silix again, Paul, Josh and Andrew all have them. These are OK, but not as accurate as say the MBW. With some modding they can be fine- few people really know what a no cg "Bond" sub looks like anyway! MBW is really mid-range- don't know if you get a real swiss eta or a clone- but that's the rep industry as a whole, not any specific dealer- althought Eurotimez does guarantee you will get a 'swiss' if you pay the extra cartage. This watch is definitely a step above the low cost options, IMO. Finally, there are the pricey NDTrading and Jewelry and Watch models- these can run over a couple of thousand dollars and are powered by a gen Rolex movement- typically taken from a less expensive older donor watch.

Thanks Guys! Stephane....sorry I left you out of the list of Rolex experts. I was reading through the previous discussions on the DRSD on RWG. A replica will always be a replica, that's a fact on any Given Sunday. It's always a customary action for replicators to leave a distinctive "flaw" or 2 on their offerings, it's been like that all the while. While the MBW DRSD dial isn't perfect, the thickness at the 6 and 9 o'clock position of the indices seem just about right, compared to NDTrading. Alongside with the thin crown on the NDTrading dial compared to the more accurate MBW dial. That said, I have noticed some members prefer to stick to the MBW dial as from far, let's say a coffee table away or 2, the MBW dial does resemble more gen. However, upon closer inspection, the NDTrading dial's print is a better one, abeit the flaws stated above. Rolexes are infamous for variations on their dials, up to today. Pick out any D or Z series Sea Dweller and for you sharp-eyed folks, you will be able to see the minute differences on the dial, especially on the fonts, distancing and at times, the crown too. NDTrading is selling a DRSD dial with 1570 cal movement for a whopping USD $ 2250!! Crazy and tempted as I am, I reckon I will hold off this poisonous route for a bit. The hunting game is the juice....let it flow, let it waterfall....

Unless you get lucky & find a 1-off run from some independent seller, the NDtrading dial is about as good as you will find. But keep in mind that the small handful of people who will know (or be able to appreciate) the difference between a double red & a double Martini are the same people who will know the difference between a gen dial & all the aftermarket or a so-called 'repainted' dials.

Off the bay at USD $ 145. Am onto a 1665 project and besides NDTrading, am in the market for a DRSD dials..... I can spot some flaws on this dial but yet would like your opinions. --- Ubi, Freddy, Lani, Mezz.... Been reading the past few threads from the yesteryears on the perfectionary roads with this DRSD. Of course, many discussions have been laid out with regards to the "Reds" family. In your opinion, would you drop money on this dial or stick with an MBW dial? The distancing between the SEA DWELLER, SUBMARINER 2000 and 2000 ft = 660m is too obvious to the point that it's thrown off the symmetrics balance. Other than the 7mm trilock crown, 1570 cal movement, what other mods would you recommend? Appreciate your input as this is my first Rollie Frankenizing Project. Thanks in advance, Pre V

20 years old, so a 16660 with saphire crystal? My suggestion: - Wait for the new WM9 Seadweller - Buy a NDTrading 16660 matte dial or wait for a glossy gen dial on the bay - search for a gen tritium bezel insert - Let some of our modders drill some lugholes - Send the hands to Ziggmeister to have them relumed to match the dial - Get an aftermarket 285 crystal without the laser edged crown (I think clarks had some) - Buy some gen spring bars The 93160A bracelet that will come with the WM9 Seadweller is semi correct for a 16660 as many watches had the original 93160 (without the A! Does not have cutouts for removing the spring bars) replaced with the newer 93160A during the service. The parts and the watch will cost you about USD 1100. To create a used look a bag with screws works nice

Hi Bro, where do I get the MBW and NDtrading case ? Both look great!

Thanks, TMG. Is the case NDtrading, Phong or what?

I do not know what 'Y' is & I believe Phong & NDtrading are selling similar cases. These are made to fit gen 1570 movements & probably the most accurate, but they are also the most expensive. MBW cases are good, but will require some grinding to get the gen movement to fit, since MBW cases are made to fit ETA movements.

I would want to see more of Yuki's case, especially the Hev side & caseback (he only displays the front). But if it, as I suspect it may, turns out to be the same case that NDtrading sells for 4-5 times as much, then I would ditto ShawnBeever. Otherwise, with the caveats SB indicated, you can do alot with an MBW, a dremel, a handful of gen parts & alot of time & patience

I agree with Freddy 100% One option might be to come up with an early Explorer dial and make it an Explorer- is it the 1016? Maybe NDTrading has something like that. Of course, it is an interesting franken on it's own.

Tis a lovely dial for sure... But methinks I smell NDTrading here.....

I think the sharpness rule fell by the wayside when NDtrading & Jewelryandwatch & other aftermarket dial resellers began producing higher quality printing (NDtrading dial - 100% aftermarket - printing was very crisp unlike typical rep dials) Now you really do need to pay attention to the tiny details (distance between index markers & lume dots, squareness of rectangle markers, correct coronet shape per dial version, texture of dial face, etc).

I have the same 5514 case with working HEV. Almost done mine.. just need to send the dial somewhere to get it aged. I have a nice NDtrading white sub dial i may install instead. Then it will be a 5514 with white submariner service dial. My white sub dial is already modded. I would just have to mod the feet to fit my 2846 ETA movement... dizz

Thanks everyone, Im getting a NDTrading case woohoo. Freddy333 you really are a walking rolex bible. thanks

Cats - I hate to be the sole black cloud, especially considering all of the time & effort you have put into this (which is obvious since the case looks tremendous). But that dial does not match the case. It is too large (the minute & Swiss markings at 6 are almost completely hidden beneath the rehaut) & the fonts & crown are just wrong. I think you need another dial that is more up to the level of the case. A stock MBW would be an improvement & an NDTrading would be a big improvement. And, while I love the daylight color of the lume, I think the bright glow in the dark just exaggerates the problems with the dial. I do not mean to hurt your feelings, but I am just being honest.

Gen - ebay. Aftermarket - NDtrading or Jewelryandwatch for Vietnamese-made with nearly exactly dimensions or Eurotimez (see Collectors forum for website) for MBW/MBKs that are more reasonably priced & will accept many gen parts. Use the Search for details.

It would be nice/helpful if Yuki provided more pics (from different angles) of his cases (not to mention more cases), but I suspect his cases are the same that Phong & NDtrading sell. There is nothing about Phong's or NDtrading's cases that make them any better than a standard rep case, except that they will fit gen parts (& they are constructed out of the same quality metal & come with the same crummy inserts, crowns & crystals as any off-the-shelf rep). And there is absolutely no reason to be paying 4 times more to Phong or NDtrading for the same quality you get with a $200 rep watch. For reference, I paid about $200 each for MBW 5514 & 5513 cases (both of which accept gen parts & contain gen movements)

Definitely Stephane for the Single Red (my mostly gen double red is not for sale) nejad - Your quickest option for an assembled red franken would be to buy from Phong or NDtrading. The upside is that you get an assembled Red or Double Red that is as close to the real thing as you are going to get (short of building it yourself). The downside is that commercial franken builders all tend to cut alot of corners & quality suffers. However, you can always buy 1 of these assembled frankens & then have a reliable watchmaker perform a full service to correct all of the problems. Either way, as Nanuq said, if you want a good Double Red & you want it quick, it will be expensive ($3,000-$4,500).

Congrads on the acquisition. I mostly agree with the above, but the 6538's main claim to fame (aside from the Bond connection) is its oversized (8mm) 'Brevet' crown, which is rarer than hen's teeth (unless you are willing to spend upwards of $1,200 for a barely functional part or $1,500+ for a good 1 & you would still need to track down a 24-8000 tube). The good news is that a 6536, which is 1 of the projects I am working on below, is essentially the same as the '38 except that it is fitted with a standard 6mm Twinlock (or Brevet) crown. All of that aside, I would swap out the lens & insert/pearl. Personally, I am not a big fan of those Nato straps, so you might also consider a gen 7206 rivet bracelet with 65 end links. But, of course, that is a judgment call Having said all that, you also need to be aware that your case is larger (thicker) than a gen 653x Sub. That is probably the biggest difference between the NDtrading & rep case. So it may not pay to spend alot on gen upgrades.

thats a nice project watch. i would start with a clarks crystal and better insert.. maybe a gen crown. You'll never find a Brevet one but maybe a old style 702 triplock or a new 703 would be a somewhat acceptable service replacement. I'd do a little sanding on the case to take the sharp edges down and send the dial out for some vintage work or swap it with an NDtrading dial. I dont know much about these early subs so i cant comment on the dial. I would bake the dial for a bit to turn the writing a bit more of a gold color then have it lumed with vintage looking tritium paint.... then of course you toss in the gen movement