Search the Community

I ordered 2 VSF Subs from TT back in June 2022. The second order arrived in 3 weeks after confirmation of payment. It was a very high quality VSF SS Sub that was shipped quickly and worked perfectly. The first order wasn't received until 6 weeks after payment and after numerous emails with Andrew and receiving a shipping confirmation that did not exist for nearly 5 weeks. Upon arrival, the first order which was supposed to be a VSF Sub, it had a movement that rattled like a baby's toy. There is no way this was a VSF quality Sub. After contacting Andrew a few times, sending pictures and videos of the rattling movement, he refused to return the item and would only "repair". If the item sent to me was a true VSF Sub that I paid a lot of money for, like the first item received, there would be no reason for a "repair". VSF quality is very very high which is why customers pay a lot of money for the VSF models. Be strongly caution from ordering any VSF models from Trusty Time and Andrew. You might not receive the item you ordered and paid the high dollars for when it arrives, months later.

The dial has a pearl finish. Very pleased.

Hey just found a really nice rep of UN. HERE ON TTW What do you think about this piece?

Hi guys! Today I’ll be reviewing the Rolex Deep Sea Sea Dweller (DSSD) Ultimate. I want to preface this review by saying that this is my first review on this forum. I’m a relative newbie when it comes to reps, but I have been a lover of fine watches for many many years. Being new to this there may be things I fail to cover or simply do not know, so please don’t hesitate to ask me other questions. And I am always open to suggestions on how to make my reviews better and more valuable to others. Background: I am not a Rolex enthusiast. In fact, I don’t care for the looks of most models of Rolex watches. There are a very few of them that I like, but the DSSD is certainly one of them. I love the look of this watch. It’s hard to pick out exactly what it is that makes me like this model when I do not like most Rolex watches. The ceramic bezel, the caseback, the rehaut and the face are some of the things I like most about it. I have never seen the gen of this watch in person, so my only comparison to the real thing is through photos and YouTube videos. The Dealer: I purchased this watch from Andrew at Trusty Time. He has been outstanding to work with and I plan on leaving a thorough review of my experience with him on his section of this forum later today. Please check it out if you plan to purchase from him. Here is the link to the watch I purchased: http://www.yourtrust...roducts_id=6579 This is the detailed description of the watch copied from the website: ROLSD017 - Deep Sea Dweller SS Blk Asia 3135 Ult V The Ultimate Version of DeepSea ...Same Deep rehaut as Genuine. Crisp Engraving within Lugs, Excellent Pearl and Lume on Dial... Correct 10 on bezel.....Updated Bevelled Edge Date Window....Parts interchangeable (Except Dial and Movt) interchangeable with the Genuine. Made with a Genuine watch as Sample... MOVEMENT: Swiss Eta 2836-2 Movt CASE DIAMETER: 43mm THICKNESS: 17.5mm DIAL COLOR: Black Dial, White Dot Markers, Blue Lume on hour markers and needles and Bezel Pearl. CASE MATERIAL: Solid 316F Stainless Steel BRACELET: SS Oyster Brushed Bracelet with New Design Divers Extension FRONT GLASS: Dome Sapphire crystal BACK GLASS: Solid case back with Titanium Seal, 2 piece case back BEZEL: Full Ceramic Bezel With sandwich numeral insert (modded to Correct "10", bezel RLACC01001, maintaining the Ultimate V's Pearl). Unidirectional rotating Bezel. HACK MOVEMENT: Yes CLASP TYPE: Flip Lock DATE INDICATOR: At 3:00 position (set via crown, beveled edge date window) OTHER REMARKS: Close 6 and 9, one-piece screw down crown with o-ring with thick crown tube (same size as genuine). M Serial numbers and model numbers between lug and rehaut. Waterproof from factory to 5 atm...50m Ordering/Shipping: I ordered this watch (along with a Panerai reviewed elsewhere) on Jan 13th through Andrew’s website. I received a confirmation email immediately. I received QC photos on Jan 15th. The watch arrived on Jan 28th but it had spent a full 5 days in the possession of customs at JFK, so taking out that delay the order-to-receipt time was 10 days which I consider to be excellent processing time from China to the US. The watches came well packaged. Each had a rubber bezel/case guard, was wrapped in thin plastic sheet, then folded up in a lot of bubble wrap and placed inside a thick Styrofoam box. The Styrofoam box was shipped in a standard cardboard box. You could drop this package off a 10 story building and the watches would be fine. First Impression: Talking the watch out, I carefully cut away the plastic film and removed the rubber bezel guard. I was amazed at how nice this watch looked in my hand. The quality of the appearance, and the fit-and-finish of this watch was way better than website photos or QC pictures could represent. This is a beautiful watch. I find myself sitting there like an idiot just staring at it. The watch is heavy and has a very solid feel to it, which I like very much. The top of the case and bracelet are brushed while the sides are polished. This contrast gives it a nice, quality appearance. The ceramic bezel is gorgeous. It is very shiny and the numbers and hash marks are crisp and clean. The case back is awesome and is one of the reasons I bought this watch. I thought that maybe the titanium alloy back would look cheesy in person, but I was wrong. It looks very cool. The band also looks very good. All of the links swivel nice and freely without having a loose feel to them. The Solid End Links (SEL) fit nicely into the case. The clasp works well and is easy to operate and adjust, but this is the first place I noticed a slight lack in quality. More on that later. Here's some photos: Further Investigation: The Crown - The first rep I purchased had a serious issue with the crown and the stem not engaging the movement correctly, so I had to send it back. So the first thing I did was to pull the crown out and test it. The crown unscrewed from the case very smoothly, and had a very solid feel. The crown pulled out nicely and had a nice tactile “click” at each position. Manually winding the watch (in the first position) is smooth with a nice resistance to it. Setting the date (with the second position) was also very nice with each day clicking by with a little snap at each change. The hands also operate very smoothly and without any slop when adjusting the time (at the third position). The Rolex Crown emblem (I think there’s another name for this, but I can’t think of it) looks good on the tip of the crown, and the grooves around the side of the crown are crisp and nicely machined. The Bezel - I then checked the operation of the bezel. It turns nicely without the very stiff resistance I’ve felt on other bezels. Not too tight, but not too loose. The clicking sound as you turn the bezel is also nice. I know it sounds strange, but I’ve turned some bezels and the clicking sounds hollow and tinny which gives an impression of cheapness. This bezel does not have that. The ceramic on the bezel is a deep polished black with a very high-gloss shine to it. I was concerned about the numbers on the bezel looking sloppy on the edges where the white meets the black, but with the naked eye, they are razor sharp. I’ve noticed that some pictures that are blown up very close will show some very slight irregularities, but this cannot be seen with the naked eye. The pearl also looks well constructed. It is perfectly centered in the triangle at the top of the bezel. It is raised with a tiny steel tube and filled with the lume. The top of the lume is rounded and polished and despite its tiny size, looks well made. The grooves around the outside of the bezel are also very nice. I will admit that this is one area I can tell the different between the rep and the gen. The gen’s grooves seem to be more precisely machined with sharper edges. However, in person they are so small that I think it would be very difficult to tell the difference without a loupe. With a high-res photo comparison, this will be one of the parts in which you can see a difference. The Case Back – Like I’ve mentioned, this is one of the things I really like about this watch. The dark titanium alloy back is held to the case with a stainless steel ring. It has a unique look that I’ve not seen on any other watch. The ring has engravings along the edge with “ROLEX OYSTER DEEPSEA – SEA-DWELLER 12800 ft = 3900m” written on it. The engraving is relatively deep and black in color. I don’t know how accurate the font is to the gen but it is crisp and spaced evenly between the edges. The grooves around the bottom edge of the ring are sharp and look well machined. The Bracelet – Like I mentioned earlier, the bracelet is brushed on the top and bottom and polished along the edges. It has nice quality feel to it. There are small screws holding the removable links vice pins, which made sizing the bracelet very easy. I was very careful in removing the pins because I didn’t know what the quality would be like. But when they were out I took a good look at them and they appeared to be solid and well made. The bracelet on the wrist is very comfortable and did not pluck the hairs off my arm like so many other watches do. The Clasp – The clasp on the DSSD is very cool. It folds down on itself and secures with an authoritative snap. Then a smaller clasp folds over the edge of that one to hold everything secure. On mine, this second clasp has a slight defect as can be seen in the photo. The top right arm of the clasp is bent slightly outward and leaves a small gap from the edge of the larger clasp. I think that I could probably wrap it in cloth and tap it lightly back in place with a hammer, but right now it doesn’t bother me very much. I also don’t want to risk damaging it so that it doesn’t work. If anyone has had experience with anything like this before, I’d appreciate your advice! This clasp has a very cool “Glidelock” feature where you pull out the top of the clasp and pull the end of the bracelet in and out for fine adjustment by 1.8mm lengths. Pushing it back down engages teeth in the clasp that holds everything steady. It works very well. It is designed for divers to quickly adjust to the thickness of a wetsuit sleeve, but it also works extremely well to fine tune the precise fit of the bracelet. The very edges of this “glidelock” clasp are not machined very precisely and have a sloppy edge to it. This would be extremely hard for anyone who is not specifically looking for it to notice. The fold out parts of the clasp is probably the one area of this rep that I think could be improved. The build quality is fine, but the printing of the Rolex emblem looks very cheap. You can judge for yourself in the photos. This concerns me very little because the only way anyone would ever see them is if I removed the watch and handed it to someone to inspect. Even then, I’m not sure it’s bad enough to immediately draw attention to it. The Crystal – The crystal looks beautiful. It is not as “domed” as I had anticipated, but it is slightly domed when looking at it from the side. Visually, the crystal sits perfectly. However, if you run your finger around the edge of the crystal (where it meets the bezel) it is not seated exactly flush. I had heard that this was common with this rep, so I was looking for it. Had I not read about it, I may have never noticed. I think that this might be able to be fixed with a case press, but that’s just a guess. Anyone else who’d like to chime in on this, please do. I may try to fix it in the future but as it is now, no one would ever notice this in a million years. Before I received this watch there was some question of whether the rep or the gen had the small “Rolex Crown” etching on the crystal. Well I’m here to clear that up. They both do. It is very, very difficult to see with the naked eye, but if you hold a powerful flashlight at the right angle, it’s there. I managed to catch it in one of the photos. It’s hard to see, but when you can see it, it looks well done. The Face – The face of this watch is gorgeous. It’s very simple which I like. I’m no expert, but everything looks nicely aligned and positioned. I cannot speak to the accuracy of the fonts, but the quality is excellent. Everything is crisp and clear. The lume has a nice blue color when freshly charged, but is not very bright. There are really three levels of brightness on the lume of this watch. The brightest is the hour markers, then the hands, then the pearl. I charged the lume with an extremely powerful aviation flashlight (185 lumens) for 30 seconds. The hour markers were adequately bright and the hands were also adequate but noticeably dimmer than the hour marker. The pearl was barely lit at all. If you wanted to mod this watch, I would say the lume is the first place to start. However for me, it’s not that much of an issue. I will probably leave it as is for some time. The lume also dims down to nothing within about 30 mins. My attempt at the lume shot (I need to get better at these!) The Fit – I have exactly a 7” wrist. I’m not sure how that fits in to the world-wide average, but I feel my wrist is average to slightly below average. The watch looks very well proportioned on the wrist to me. Unlike some of the larger watches such as U-Boat and Panerai, I would imagine that just about anyone could wear this watch without it looking too big in diameter. I will say that the watch is fairly thick and if anything, the watch sits up high off your wrist. But it’s no show stopper. You’d have to be analyzing it to notice this fact. Conclusion: I spent $408USD on this watch. Considering the gen costs more than $10,000USD I’d say I hit a gold mine! I’ve heard that Rolex watches are among the most widely (and cheaply) repped watches around. Even people with gen watches are constantly asked if their watch is real. However, this watch screams quality. I think just about anyone who wasn’t a Rolex enthusiast or AD who took a close look at this watch would have to determine it was real. The watch is absolutely beautiful. The things about it that are not accurate are so minor that they almost don’t warrant notice. I am very happy with this purchase, and very happy with my experience so far with Andrew at Trusty Time (www.yourtrustytime.com). Again, if there’s anything in my review that wasn’t clear or if you have any additional questions I can answer, don’t hesitate to ask. I hope you've all found this review informative and helpful!

Hey everyone, I wanted to start by saying how grateful I was to find this forum and the wealth of information it holds. Over the years I've collected a few reps along side a few gens and it was very much so a solo experience. My previous job has me traveling to Asia with somewhat frequency, so I would just purchase a handful of quality reps there and bring them back for myself and friends. Since changing roles, my travel has stopped and I needed a way to find quality products with real reviews., I spent some time googling and never felt comfortable purchasing online as I assumed the worst as far as quality. Well, that has changed after finding this site! I've ben searching for a Milgauss for some time and thanks to the reviews I was able to see for Trusty Time, I went ahead and purchased one! It should be arriving shortly and I'll definitely be doing a review once received. Alright, that being said. I need some help! Previously there was an older gentleman that ran a small watch shop that would do work on reps. A few years back, he closed and since I haven't had the need for any service. A few things I've read so far seem to imply I should be taking the watch I receive in for service almost immediately to ensure it's oiled and working properly. Is that accurate? If so, what type of service should I be looking for? That's only one part of the problem. Additionally, I am not sure the best way to go about finding someone in my town who will work on reps. Is there a good way to understand who will and won't without flat out asking? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!

After a couple days of research I decided to buy the REP Aqua Terra, 15 000 Gauss. However just before I pulled the trigger stumbled upon this... This dealer (Trusty Time) claims they have a swiss ETA in theirs I was quite intent with the miyota movement but it seems the Swiss ETA is most likely superior I'm not sure with which one to go with, theyre all Trusted Dealers :\ On Puretime / Trevor Watch their AT 15 000 Gauss' have Miyota movements 1) Does Trusty Time actually have a Swiss ETA in theirs? 2) If so, is the choice obviously the REP with the Swiss ETA or is there more to consider?

This is a continuation of the thread where I reviewed Trusty Time and the Planet Ocean. Following the successful purchase of a 42.5mm Omega Planet Ocean I decided to purchase a present for my mother and to treat myself to another watch. I decided to buy the Swiss movement Aqua Terra (Black) for myself and a Constellation Eagle (Quartz). I originally decided to get the Blue Aqua Terra but after seeing the QC pictures the shade of blue did not even look close to the gen so I thought I would play it safe with black. After waiting patiently for delivery I finally managed to get the packages. I slowly examined my mother's watch to check the quality of the metal etc and clasp etc. I then proceeded to check that it actually worked after fiddling around with it for several minutes the watch did not seem to actually work and I thought that the battery must have been dead, in addition the watch was too small for my mothers wrist and there were not enough links for included and it was quite tight on her wrist. I then went on to inspect my Aqua Terra and found the watch to feel a lot lighter than my Planet Ocean, its as it the links were hollow or something and the watch felt like it was an obvious rep. It felt pretty flimsy and the movement was actually loose. Andrew at Trusty Time assured me that I would be getting a sturdy one as the factory does "checks" before they are sent out. After looking at the watch for a few moments I was find as I was just happy it worked. so I wound the watch and started wearing it. about 20 minutes the watch started to stop when the second hand reached the 23rd minute marker. I was advised by Andrew to smash the watch hard against my hand to get the watch going again, which it did, but this is not a practical solution. I emailed him several times saying that I wanted two new watched that worked and that I wanted a different watch entirely or even a different model because I do not want the hassle of going through the whole process if the "fixed" watches messed up again. he said that this was not possible and I could only get it refurbished. I was seriously pi55ed off because I had spend over £500 on buying watched from him and he wants to refurb me these two broken watches, I paid the full price for a brand new rep and he wants to fob me off with these broken reps? I am currently in the process of sending these back to the factory and they will no doubt take months to get these back to me. I wanted to let you all know that whilst some replicas are good the AQ and the constellation are not so I would avoid these two models in particular. the look great on the pictures but we all want a watch that can tell time right ... I'll keep you all updated with the process. Thanks.

Just received my Black Submariner 16610 rep from Andrew at Trusty Time. Was a little worried about customs as was shipped EMS over the last week or so but no such problems! Very very impressed. It's my first rep so starting at the shallow end. It's just your basic Asian movement $160 rep so not looking for perfection but thoroughly impressed. If I had a couple of small criticisms it would be that the bracelet feels a little sharp at the edges and more 'jiggly' than i'd expect a gen to be. Again, for $160 it still feels quality and looks 100% the real deal. The other point is that there is a teeny tiny mark on the inside of the bezel pearl, so small I couldn't get the camera to show it. You can hardly even see it with the naked eye. Only just slightly if looking at it from a certain angle, and then you'd still have to know it was there. One rep in I'm already wondering what my next one will be, oops! Will get some wrist shots once I've removed a couple of links this evening. Apologies for the photos - only got my iPhone with me at the moment and certainly no David Bailey!

I wore this watch everyday about a month after receiving it before I decided to write a review to make sure that everything was in working order and will be able to work in the long run. I placed an order for the Ultimate Planet Ocean 42mm with the Swiss 2824 movement from Andrew at Trusty Time back in late December and received it before Christmas (Most recent link is here). I loved my gen Midsized Omega Seamaster Professional, but the size of the watch (at 36mm case diameter) started to bother me, as I wanted a watch that was more substantial in weight and presence on the wrist. However, the one I got from Andrew had problems from the beginning with the crown and tube not screwing down (one turn or less to release) and the movement not working correctly (eventually stopped working all together). When it completely stopped working, I emailed Andrew and explained to him my situation and agreed to have it repaired and I shipped my watch back to him on December 27. It was a few weeks into the mailing process that I realized that it takes a long turnaround time thanks to the mailing system in China after it leaves the US (explained in this post here). Eventually, after a bunch of emails throughout the months I get an email from Andrew with a picture of the repaired watch on a movement tester and a picture of the watch with the EMS label with my adress on it, it was shipped on April 20 and was delivered to my home on the 27. In the return box, I received my repaired/replaced watch, a dial (Replaced? I'm not sure), and a frame of the ETA movement. My impressions of the repaired UPO is that it is leaps and bounds better than the one originally sent to me in December. The movement winds well and can be wound by the wrist movements (unlike the one I got originally); additionally the crown/tube is much improved, it takes a good 4~5ish turns to completely unscrew it to the first position (for winding) and screwing it down (bonus is that the feet of the logo sits almost parallel to the wrist when screwed down or point down into the wrist for clarification). The materials of the bracelet, case, and crystal are very good and is almost feels gen (as I own a Seamaster Professional as a rough reference for comparison, as they are two different watches in the Seamaster lineup). The deployment clasp is good, whether or not the engravings is correct is ignorance on my part and the diver's extension works but is fussy when you want to close it back up. The only real aesthetic inaccuracies that someone can really call me out on are the bezel pearl (which isn't centered in the triangle) and that the raised Omega logo sits a tad too low above the Omega lettering on the dial (which is a bit less noticeable). The AR (anti-reflective) coating is present and often appears blue, but in certain lighting conditions will show the correct purple color; additionally the AR coating is easily prone to scratches when the crystal brushes up with solid objects (the repaired watch I got back had a few hard to notice scratches if you looked at them at an angle and a L shaped scratch on the bezel; I'm not too worried about those as it adds character to the watch and I'm more than glad that it works). The ETA 2824 movement is actually what Omega uses as the base movement of their 2500 caliber movements for the gen version of this watch (in which they modify this movement with George Daniels Co-Axial escapement); however, the Co-Axial escapement results in an irregular 7 beats per second as opposed to 8 on most automatically wound watches (like older Omegas and most modern Rolexes). This ETA 2824 movement doesn't suffer that lower beat rate (as this movement more than likely does not have the Co-Axial escapement installed) and has a nice smooth sweep and is rather robust which should handle a good amount of time without service; also, this particular movement keeps time really well, my aged gen Seamaster Professional keeps the time well as I wear it everyday and was serviced a few years back by Omega). The lume is were it shows a bit of weakness, it's not as bright as my gen when charged under the same light source for the same amount of time; the weak lume is the most apparent on the hands of the watch as they are dimly when charged under a light source. However, fluorescent light seems to charge it well as well as natural light, LED light doesn't like to mesh with the lume from what I observed when I used my phone's LED camera flash (in flashlight mode) to charge the lume. This watch fooled my uncle who loves Omegas and was shocked when I told him that it cost only $300 and change and that it was a rep. Needless to say he was rather impressed and wanted one for himself. To conclude this review, besides the small aesthetic inaccuracies and the lume, it is a rep that is definitely worth owning that is really close to the gen in many ways; as well as to commend Andrew for his patience and service for my watch during the repair process. Definitely let him know if there is something bothering you during the QC pic phase all the way to when something happens to it. My plan for my next rep is that I want is a Rolex Submariner in either the non-ceramic (like the D or Z serials without holes in the case and without the rehaut engravings) or the ceramic version (as long as it's accurate). I got a cheap Canal Street sub rep in New York as a souvenir but I want to have something like my UPO or gen that I can rock daily. I really wished I could of gotten the BK TW sub before he sold out, but I am looking at the TC sub and a ceramic sub from Andrew (since searching the forums didn't yield much on the Ultimate sub from TT, ROLSUB0017). That's my plan and my review, thank you for reading.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever had to send their rep back to their seller for repairs and how long it took for a turn-around. My UPO V5 42mm had suffered from the crown/tube issue and on top of that it stopped working. Upon closer inspection (removing the case back) the movement was missing a screw that held it to the case and caused something to snap in the movement that caused it to stop. So I emailed Andrew of Trusty Time and he was kind enough to take the watch back and repair it, that was 12/26/12 and no updates (besides being processed through a sorting facility in China on 1/5/13) to the tracking number that USPS gave me to track. I understand that February is a no good time for any package to be stuck in transit (because of Chinese New Year and additional holidays) but it's been almost 3 months. Any suggestions on what I should do? I've sent emails back and forth for a while and I just sent an email before making this post for any updates. Thank you.

Hi guys, I am new to the world of replica watches. I am looking for this Omega and I have not been able to find it anywhere. I have obviously come across other version of the speedmaster but I would like this specific version. I could not find it on Andrew's site, and I looked around the others as well. I found one for 70 dollars on some random Chinese site, but I don't trust them with my credit card. Has anyone come across this watch on their Rep searches??? Thanks guys. It is the Omega Speedmaster 323.32.40.40.04.001 Here is a pic for reference, borrowed from the Omega website.

Hi All, I'm looking at buying a rep Rolex Day Date II in Yellow Gold with Champagne dial and the presidential clasp. Came across the one on TT's website, and having bought a fantastic Hublot from him last year - definitely willing to give it a go again. Just wondering if anyone has purchased this model before, what is the quality of the gold plating, how is the weight of the watch and how much wear and tear is happening on it (gold rubbing off) etc? Any advice greatly appreciated.

Hello guys, I'd like to begin by introducing myself. I'm a watch lover, have owned a few gens (mostly Cartier) over the years, a newbie to the rep world, but am very intrigued by the quality of today's reps compared to gens. *Lengthy story below, bear with me* Here my first journey in this hobby begins: After closely examining and really studying up on good reps, trusted dealers, etc. I decided to make my first rep purchase from Trusty Time. I ordered a Hublot Ice Bang (I believe it was a V6 *noobie alert* with the platinum plated bridges and all) about a month ago now. About two or three days after ordering Andrew contacted me and let me know about the current situation with the factories, and the raids that seem to be plaguing them. He told me the Hublot factory was closed due to these raids and it could take 3-4 weeks for them to get my watch in stock and ready to ship. I told him this was no problem, I could wait. In the meantime, I had been looking at some PAMs and had read that the 111 M from Noob was a pretty good rep so I decided that while I waited for the Ice Bang I would order one of these to entertain myself with. Andrew confirmed it was in stock and a week after the order was placed he sent me QC pics, which I glanced over (noobie mistake) and approved, and then he sent it out. After waiting another two weeks for the delivery to arrive (held up an entire week in customs), I got the watch and absolutely loved it. However, upon further inspection I noticed that it was not an M Series like I had ordered, it was apparently an N, or so the case back reads. I loved the watch anyways, so despite having been sent the wrong Series (partly my fault, didn't notice the N serial in the QC pics) this didn't bother me much. I had read the Ns from Noob were great as well (perhaps better?). Anyways, having learned my lesson I decided that when the QC pics for the Ice Bang arrived I'd inspect them more carefully. They arrived a few hours ago, and I immediately noticed that the strap that it featured in the pics (gummy aligator) was not the one I'd asked for (I wanted the smooth rubber one) so no biggie, I informed Andrew and he said he'd change it. But then I noticed something that worried me. Now, remember I am very new to this so I may be terribly wrong about this but, I noticed that the ceramic case had a matte finish to it on the watch in the QC pics. Now to my understanding, the gen Ice Bang (numerals), be it with the tantalum or tungsten bezel has a kinda shiny/brushed black ceramic case, while the Ice Bang Evolution (stick markers) has the black matte case (like the All Black II). So I believe what I was looking at was kinda a rep hybrid featuring the Dial from the average Ice Bang (with numerals) inside the ceramic case of the Ice Bang Evolution (who's dial is supposed to be stick markers instead of numerals). Needless to say I informed Andrew. He then insisted that the case was correct, even after I sent him a stock QC picture from his website which I believe contradicted this. He then said that, that was the last watch left, that the factory had recently reopened for a couple of days and had been shut down again due to the raids, possibly for another two weeks. He said if I didn't want the watch he would offer me a refund. I took the refund. I may be new at this but my gut and a bit of research led me to believe that the watch wasn't right, not even in rep standards. I am awaiting the refund but I know Andrew is good for it. Well, now that I've told my story, my questions to the seasoned veterans on this board are as follows: 1. What do you make of the mix up with the PAM? 2. What do you think of the issue with the Hublot Ice Bang? 3. How much do you think the raids, lack of stock, etc. influenced the situation with both orders? 4. And most importantly, what trusted dealer can send me a proper Ice Bang V6 now? I've been looking forward to this watch for a month and am now completely lost as to how to get my hands on one.