Guest Sql_pl Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I have an opportunity to get a nice clean gen 16610 with box, papers etc... Have to say it is really tempting... but I wonder what is your opinion - with so good reps like WM9 - is it still worth getting a gen Sub? Now that the rehaut is OK, dials are superlumed, bezel assembly is the same as gen... What do you guys think? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 If you appreciate the fit-&-finish of a gen (which no commercially made rep can match) or want resale value, get the gen. Otherwise, I find it difficult to justify the price differential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I think the price would really be the determining factor, Maciek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Well the price is not that special as it would be around $4400.00 but it is a rare thing that it is located around 180 km from my home, inside my country so it would be a hand to hand deal which is good. I see they are being offered for some nicer prices in US but I am not a huge fan of high value overseas shipments... It is a D series watch but first sold in 2008 so I guess it was sitting for 2 years somewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 To be honest I would not buy another gen now that the WM9's are getting better and better with each series unless as Randy says the price is too tempting. Only the fit and finish of the bracelet really makes the difference in the rep in my opinion. I would buy a gen of something else and wear the rep Sub. just my thoughts Maciek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks a lot guys. If the WM9 is really that good then I think it really is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Maciek, no surprise that I say: buy a gen. µ Ever since I look at watches, the Sub has been my goal. Now that I have it, it will probably be the last I sell. But 4.400$ is a bit to high in my opinion. Why don't you try the r-l-x.de sales? It's a great place for you as not far away, so no taxes. Forget the US: you'll pay taxes anyway and I'm not sure the sellers are as "serious" as on the German forum. Anyway, get a genuine, if the watch is your fav or one of your fav...for all the others, stick to frankens EDIT: Us sellers maybe less serious with overseas buyers I mean. After all, once the watch is gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I agree- $4400 is a bit high for a pre-owned 16610. I bet you can find one for less if you are willing to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Yes I guess I will shop around and maybe find a better deal but in EU it is not that easy - most watches are waaay more expensive in EU. As for gen/rep thing - I have to say first time I really appreciated all the small details was when I bought my gen 112. I was totally bored with PAMs after numerous reps and figured I am totaly done with Panerai brand. But then this 112 showed up, I bought it and now I am so in love with it I barely wear anything else. But it is a bit different with a PAM - we do not really have any good reps of classic handwound ones... while for Rolex we have WM9s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Honestly, I don't know. Subs hold their value pretty well. I don't make a lot of money, so $5,000 is a lot for a watch. Even if there's a 1:1, I still don't care. With the 16610 I always feel like somethings missing. I don't get that feeling wearing my rep SFSO or PO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Honestly, I don't know. Subs hold their value pretty well. I don't make a lot of money, so $5,000 is a lot for a watch. Even if there's a 1:1, I still don't care. With the 16610 I always feel like somethings missing. I don't get that feeling wearing my rep SFSO or PO. 100% agreed. A Sub must be 1:1 ...for me. That is because it is my primary love watch. In example, I have others for which I don't care: Ingy, PO, Explorer II.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 For resale value, absolutely. For reliability, gens are also luck of the draw. My '96 16610 was a piece of sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 The 16610 is such a 'middle of the road' Submariner, I would have to say it's not worth it. There are more interesting variations available, and the reps of the 16610 (such as WM9s) will look just as good on the wrist, for only a fraction of the price But that's just my .2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcook Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Having had both genuine and highly modded WM9 16610 I would not buy the gen again. With some modding the WM9 is such an outstanding rep that I always felt that the gen is not worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I suggest you go visit an AD and hold a gen 16610, you may be shockingly disappointed about what the $7,000CDN price tag gets you (minus their 18% offering of course). After playing with my MBK (which isnt even as good as a wm9v2)and visiting an AD to play with their gen sub I would not spend $7K on a watch that has maybe $500 worth of anything in it, I cant justify it ONE bit. I couldnt wake up every day and hold this piece of stainless metal and be satisfied that it cost $7K. There is SO MUCH more that this amount of money could buy and I couldnt factor the amount for the materials into this price tag. I wouldnt spend more than $3500 on a genuine sub. So if I were you I wouldnt unless I have to much money and im getting bored of lap dances. I think with all the attention and perfection we put into our reps they actually come out more polished in fit and finish, where as the gen felt kind of sloppy in feel and appearance. After seeing this watch in the flesh and inspecting it for a good 5minutes, from the pics I see of wm9s V2 it actually looks spot on, amazing really that wm9 could build this watch for probably $300(speculating) and Rolex has to charge $7,000 +tax for the same steel and glass. (note the new 14060 is only $400 cheaper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 If you're a "Sub guy", then it's worth it to buy a gen. If you're only so-so about Subs, a WM9 should be fine. In my case, I'm pretty much like Stephane, it's my go to watch and gen is the ticket a lot of the time. Three gen subs, a couple of frankens and a bunch of reps. It is nice to wear the reps when I'm 'beating' around though. I realize prices are less here in the states- you could find a decent 16610 for $3500-4000 and maybe for $3K if you looked hard and were patient. You see new on ebay for $5250 from the reseller guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Keep in mind too the cost of service for a gen. Rolex especially is very picky when it comes to maintaining quality of their time pieces. My first Gen 116710 I purchased new from a AD. They were hosting a Rolex event for a free inspection, cleaning and polish if you purchased a watch from them. Of course I signed up as it was FREE and their were limited spots available. Upon picking it up, my face was glowing at how sparkly new my watch looked. I could not have been happier. Right up until I was handed the bill! The cleaning and inspection was free, but I got hammered for new crown, crown stem, full gaskets, clasp and bracelet link! Of course it was outside of warranty! For me this was the first and last gen. Rolex I would own. Nice thing was I sold it for what I paid for it. They do hold their value! Rep Rolex for me, from then on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 if its really "your" watch - go for it - you can get them with a little patience for 2500 Euro + i saw modded WM2 for sale here close to 1000 Euro .... that's not worth it still ALL this tiny faults that makes you go crazy - at least me my choice : stay without Sub - maybe WM9 V3 cheers, Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Not worth it. Especially at that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 In terms of value? WM9 is what isn't worth it to me. Mod it to the hilt, franken everything... Thats thousand(s) of dollars to have the same reply as the guy with the $100 noob sub when someone asks about it. "Its a rep." No watch is worth $5,000, $10,000.. $100,000.. None of them. For the most popular toolwatch ever built, fully in house, most respected watch co. in the world, owning the gen would bring a lot of satisfaction at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 But of course, even the gen will still get the "Is it real?" question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 just buy a seiko. BEST VALUE ever for a tool gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 But of course, even the gen will still get the "Is it real?" question Franken/built-up WM9- $1200+ Genuine 16610- $4400+ saying/knowing "It's real"- Priceless. For everything else, theres Mastermeister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ha! Instead of a Seiko, I bought an Invicta last week- I'm kinda liking the Miyota 8215 movements in them and you can't beat the price. http://www.shopnbc.com/product/?familyid=j177927&rap=2774&WT.mc_id=CMail_1489479458&cm_ven=cheetahmail&cm_ite=product&cm_lm=cm:mac@hmdbuilders.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcoast68 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Three points to consider; 1. Do you want it, 2. Can you afford it, 3. Can you justify the price. Its asking price is a bit on the high side, but, since this is local to you, and can be had in person, that may be worth a little of the cost to you. Did you try to haggle on the price? Since it is a gen, if you don't like it or get buyers remorse, you can probably sell it over again and get most if not all your money back. Personally myself, I would never pay more than $3k US for one, and a vintage Sub is more fun when you build one yourself. For me, there is a world full of diver and sport watches that are way more rare and interesting than a Sub would ever be. My .02 Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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