fitipaldi Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Hi, in august 2009 I bougth a watch from a dealer not listed on RWG trusted dealers, but he has been recommended by several members. I paid him by Paypal. The sale was very good: he sent me pictures of the watch and he answered all my questions. Until then was all perfect. My hell started when I received the watch. The watch presented a jerkiness in the seconds subdial at 3". I sent the watch to The Zigmeister to service it in order to solve the issue. The Zigmeister told me the watch was impossible to service. I decided to contact the dealer to send the watch back to him. I asked him about his return back policy and what happen when if the watch would be lost in the trip; he stated he will assume 50% of the lost in this situation. I sent him a video showing the issue. I sent the watch to him on november 10th by regular airmail (without tracking number), item declared like a gift with a value of $20. Since today, he didn't receive the watch. I talked with the post office (4 times) and they told me China customs maybe retained the parcel. I was trying to solve this issue with the dealer for the last 2 weeks and he hasn't been helpful. He changed his own rules and he refuse to assume the 50% of the lost. I sent him the invoice of the post office like a proof of the parcel, but he still refuse to give me anything! In addition, he answered my emails with a delay of days. At this point I'm very frustrated with all this situation. Today I decided to go with more radical measures and I want to initiate a Paypal dispute to recover my money. Before to go ahead with this, I want to know your suggestions please. Is it worth to go ahead? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 What are you going to tell them, that you bought an illegal watch? Replica watches and PP disputes aren't a good thing, in my opinion. Sometimes it's better just to write it off and move on. But in the end, It's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitipaldi Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I was thinking to tell them I bought the watch thinking it was a gen. But I don't know. I'm very upset and maybe I 'm not thinking clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeefan Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 How much did you pay for the watch? Why did you ship it back without a tracking number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeefan Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I was thinking to tell them I bought the watch thinking it was a gen. But I don't know. I'm very upset and maybe I 'm not thinking clearly. WTF? So you are going to lie to get your money refunded? If we are talking about a thousand dollar watch, then I could see why you are so upset. But if this is a $100 watch, sometimes you have to just accept it, take the loss, and move on. Pitfalls of the hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concepta Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Hmm..does not sound like Tony at all! He is always a stand up guy! I buy 99% of my watches from him. You want me to talk to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitipaldi Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thanks to all by your suggestions. I paid $404 for the watch. I choose to send the watch by regular airmail because I had never had issues with this shipping method before (I sent 4 watches to Andrew and he always received them) and also is 5 times less expensive, and the dealer was not agree to refund me the money for shipping. The problem is this is the second time I have issues with him. I had another watch returned to him (he received it) and after discusing a lot, he was able to change it by other model. He sent it but to a wrong address and the watch was returned to him (1 month waiting). On december 7th he sent it again and I'm still waiting to get it. At this point I don't know what to think. Bad luck??!! I don't understand why he didn't follow his own rules. Now he's risking his reputation and losing customer (me, my brothers, my friends and some RWG members). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchnRoll Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Unfortunately, you are at fault now. You expect him to replace the watch or refund your money with no watch back to him. You should have sent it EMS with a tracking number. Sorry that you had a bad experience but If I send something without tracking...and it doesn't get there...who is at fault? My advice is to buy from Joshua. Edited January 8, 2010 by WatchnRoll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitipaldi Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) I have the post office invoice. I sent it to him, for third time, two days ago, and I'm still waiting an answer. All this situation is not my fault, or maybe it is for changing my usual dealer. When I paid for something I expect to receive a flawless item. I know it's part of the hobby. I have all the proofs the watch presented issues and it was sent to him. The big point here is the bad customer service. I have problems before with some watches bought from Andrew and he always gave me excellent customer service. Once I received a dead watch and he sent me immediatly a replacement (he didn't wait to receive the dead one). It's 100% shure I will not buy from him anymore; neither my brothers and friends. I'm waiting his final answer to create a full detailed topic about my problem. For now AVOID THIS DEALER. It is true he is selling watches $30 less than regular dealers, but if you have issues like me, you will lose all your money. Edited January 8, 2010 by fitipaldi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Well, regardless of whether you should or shouldn't file a Pay Pal claim, there is no point in doing so. This from their terms and conditions. File a Dispute/Escalate to a Claim. In order to be considered for the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy, you must first file a dispute online in the PayPal Resolution Centre and attempt to resolve the dispute with the seller. The dispute must be filed within 45 calendar days of the date that you made the payment to the seller. In the event that the dispute remains unresolved then you must escalate the dispute to a claim under the Buyer Complaint Policy within 20 calendar days of the date you filed the dispute. August until now is a long way over 45 days, so forget that idea, and maybe just continue to try to have "friendly" discussions with the seller. Offshore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dropbear2008 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I regularly get parcels from China (not watches) and 6 - 8 weeks with regular mail is not out of the ordinary. Tony is has always come through for me and I am sure everything will work out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Whenever you ship back a parcel to a dealer, use a registered tracked service, pretty simple, and an absolute must! Never use a non tracked service, or a courier style service...... It is the dealers responsibility to get a watch to you in one piece, safe and sound, for which they take responsibility. On the flip side, it's your responsibility to get the watch back to the dealer in one piece, safe and sound, for which you take responsibility. Ultimately you let yourself down by shipping the watch with the cheapest method available to you, it could take months to get there and may never show up. How would you know either way? There is no parcel reference in the system..... Talk to Tony, maybe he will do something, maybe not. Until he has the watch in his hands, I doubt he, or any other dealer, would do anything.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSentier Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Read this all and must add my 2cents. As mentioned before, a watch w/o tracking number and not being received by the dealer is - hard to say this - your problem. Having similar issues as you, I can give you the honest advice: stay away from PP dispute. Nobody will be the lucky guy in this PP vs. Rep-game. And don't lie... I guess, the very best solution is the offer from concepta. If he has the possibility to talk to Tony and it seems that he has a good relationship to him, go for that. That is what a forum and great members can do for you. I am still having an issue, that a watch was lost in the depths of postal services, the seller didn't ship it trackable and uninsured, so it is his responsibility to solve the issue. A polite conversation and honesty - on both sides- can bring you the solution and satisfaction. Don't know anything about Tony and never had a deal with him (cause i am in europe), but guess there are members with lots of good experience with him. Ask concepta for intervention, forget PP. just my opinion good luck, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thogaa Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Paypal will not help you in this case. They only refund your money under buyer protection if it is an eBay auction. Outside of eBay you can only get your money back if the seller still has the funds in his account (tried it) So even if you win you loose. IMO you lost the watch when you posted it w/o tracking. Purchase your next rep at another dealer and forget about the whole thing. I don't see how this can be part of any dealers customer service to replace an item he didn't receive and I'm sure dealers selling hundreds of watches won't scam a customer for a single watch. If you were on the other side of the counter I don't think you would offer that kind of service either. Move on to the next watch and let it be is my advise. To rage and mock is gentlemanly, to grumble and whine is not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I've always found Tony okay to deal with. I returned a PAM with a faulty power reserve via regular airmail and it took about a month to reach him, but it did get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest techlogik Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Do what I did...ship it by EMS Air with confirmation tracking number. It cost $35 in the US, but you have proof. Otherwise, SOL friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitipaldi Posted January 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) thanks everybody for your advices. I'm really appreciate them. You are right it was my fault sending the watch by regular airmail. Shipping with tracking number to China cost around $55 here in Canada and I didn't want to spend more money. Well I think I learned a lesson by the hard way. Never again I will leave Andrew. I'm trying to contact Concepta to help me. RWG did it again!! thanks again Edited January 9, 2010 by fitipaldi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Look at the pics on his web site.. look familiar?? they should.. they are pirated images form one of our trusted dealers here.. He has been known to sell less desirable movements. but don't be too hard on yourself.. we all learn the hard way at some point and time.. it could of been worse.. that may not be any consolation .. and hind sight is always 20/20.. I just stick with the dealers here now.. no matter how good the deal "looks".. bargins are not always what they're cracked up to be.. True too.. live and learn.. AC/Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Well the pictures are stock factory pictures, that Tony obviously has access too. I mean, otherwise, how does he remove the watermark on each and every picture that the other dealers place on them? As for the less than desirable movements, that is the first I have heard of it. Unless you mean the Asian clone Rolex "style" movements that ALL the dealers are selling, the ones that are sold for about the same or more than their true Swiss ETA counterparts, for a much bigger profit no doubt, and then tend to fall to pieces and break in no short amount of time..... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 so an a7750 shouldn't judder at all? mine does :S my chrono hand is juddery too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thogaa Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 so an a7750 shouldn't judder at all? mine does :S my chrono hand is juddery too... All mine do. Some worse than others. I just returnet a BS (blacksteel not [censored]) Skyland jerking about 4 seconds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 so an a7750 shouldn't judder at all? mine does :S my chrono hand is juddery too... The two versions of the 7750 movement (low beat= 21,600 and high beat 28,800) work out to be roughly 6 beats, or 8 beats per second respectively. So in theory the high beat version should be a smoother sweep, but I have owned a few high beat 7750's that have had a chronograph second hand that skips just as bad as a low beat version..... Certainly I hope the second hand skipping was really, really crazy bad in this particular case (quartz level), certainly otherwise I would not consider it to be a fault at all, if the watch keeps good time and is cosmetically sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hmm..does not sound like Tony at all! He is always a stand up guy! I buy 99% of my watches from him. You want me to talk to him? Same here, I have purchased five reps from Tony, not one issue. Sometimes he Is a little slow whith the tracking # but thats about It. I really dont pay to much attention to tracking # anymore so no big deal for me. I had one watch that looked like I might have to send back. Tony said no problem. I was able to resolve the issue with my local watch repair person for a few bucks. Im really sorry to hear this, send me a PM If you think I can help you out, you never know, good luck Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Well, regardless of whether you should or shouldn't file a Pay Pal claim, there is no point in doing so. This from their terms and conditions. August until now is a long way over 45 days, so forget that idea, and maybe just continue to try to have "friendly" discussions with the seller. Offshore. Very good advice Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Well the pictures are stock factory pictures, that Tony obviously has access too. I mean, otherwise, how does he remove the watermark on each and every picture that the other dealers place on them? As for the less than desirable movements, that is the first I have heard of it. Unless you mean the Asian clone Rolex "style" movements that ALL the dealers are selling, the ones that are sold for about the same or more than their true Swiss ETA counterparts, for a much bigger profit no doubt, and then tend to fall to pieces and break in no short amount of time..... Cheers! They are not stock factory pics.. members are going to believe what they want regardless .. that is what is so funny with these issues.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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