Rolex as status symbol or just "a plain dependable watch"?

[freddy333]

1 of the more thought-provoking threads to appear on TZ in recent days & Dave 'Mr. Numb-scull' Knoll once again hamhandedly locks the thread because he does not like the tenor of the discussion (instead of simply requesting posters maintain a more cordial/respectful tone). I thought it worth reposting here so the topic can be discussed without repression -

Some have argued that Rolex is merely a "well made dependable watch" and you buy and wear it to admire it for its craftsmanship, materials, finish, etc.

Others, myself included, argue that you have to look past the obvious and see it for what it is - a status symbol. All the marketing done by Rolex is aimed at selling you a lifestyle of privilege, class and distinction. They don't use Roger Federer for no reason!

We all know that Rolex watches are mass manufactured luxury items (which conceptually is an oxymoron) so the question is how do you see this brand in general? As a well made mass manufactured item or as a luxurious status symbol?

It's easy to answer "both" which also makes you part of the second camp. Therefore, if you do answer "both" or are of the second camp i.e. the status symbol, does wearing one make you an elitist? one of the privileged individuals lucky enough to wear one (regardless of how the watch was obtained)? If not, why not? Why do you wear Rolex and not say a Grand Seiko (the Japanese would argue GS is equally well made with arguably better technology [spring Drive] and about the same price on some models).

In other words, why do you wear Rolex? Because you are part of that lifestyle of class and distinction (and you wear it to make a statement about your success) or because you really think it is simply a good dependable watch? Can one honestly say they don't buy into the entire lifestyle argument of class, distinction and privilege when they go with a Rolex?

[ubiquitous]

Does it really matter why people wear something over another?

Personally, I wear what I like- Some of my collection is vintage Rolex stuff... Some is IWC, some is Panerai, some is Omega... Some watches have no name on the dial. I enjoy each for different reasons, but don't really care if anyone else notices, as it probably doesn't matter to them. Much like it doesn't matter what someone else is wearing to me. It doesn't hurt me personally if someone buys something for a status symbol; it doesn't have any effect on me whatsoever. Unless I know someone personally, I'll likely never see them again and even if I do know them, why they buy what they do is their business. I'm not going to judge or criticize their choices.

I think people in general need to stop worrying about what someone else is doing, and start worrying about themselves.

[Stephane]

I have no educated answer to that eternal question.

But I can only say this: allthough I have and had very very nice watches, a day without a Rolex is simply impossible.

Tonight I'm wearing my JLC after the Noob Ceramic Sub. Sure thing I will wear another Rolex tomorrow morning

So I guess I may state: I like them

Simple but evident!

[TeeJay]

An interesting topic to bring up, and one which is certainly going to get some interesting discussion here. I think by discussing it here, rather than on TZ, another facet of the discussion will focus on wearing a rep rather than a gen.

I think there are many gen Rolex owners who purchase the watches solely as elitist status symbols, but I know that there are also those who do not hold that view. I don't think that those two camps can be divided solely along the lines contemporary/vintage, because while there are indeed those who have their aged vintages and wear them on a daily basis, there are also those who wastefully keep them in safes, purely as 'value items' (personally, that makes me feel that people like that are missing the point of owning the product, and should instead just keep a bar of platinum in their vault) On the contemporary side, there are those who might want to purchase a watch which they feel is going to be with them a long time and give years of good service, just as there are those who want to 'buy a Rolex' so they can look like a bigshot and impress bar skanks and jailbait. They, like those who keep timepieces in safes, are missing the point of owning a watch and appreciating it for what it is.

I don't own a gen Rolex and would never buy one on principle (my anti-commercialism views) yet I do appreciate the aesthetics of the Rolex models, and feel that reps give me the chance to appreciate that aesthetic without having to buy the original. Much as someone might appreciate a fine painting and hang a print of it in their home or office (because they rather obviously cannot acquire the original) I don't think my appreciation of Rolex is to do with the perceived status symbol, simply because in my time collecting, Rolex has not always held my attention as a brand, and also, because I prefer the different dial formats of the Tudor line, which while equally collectable, are only really recognized by other serious collectors (never had anyone made a comment on my Tudor subs) and do not show the Rolex branding. Would I wear a sterile Homage? On the one hand, I would say no, simply because it is not a complete recreation of the original (just as a print of the Great Wave which was missing Mt Fuji would be inaccurate and incomplete) but on the other hand, I would probably be just as capable of appreciating it 'as a watch', and enjoying it for what it does represent, rather than what it does not...

Just my .2c, looking forwards to reading other's thoughts

[redwatch]

Agreed with both Ubi & Stephane. I wear what I like and could care less how I'm perceived by anyone who happens to notice my watch. In my year and a half since I joined this forum, I have only ever had one comment from a stranger and that was when I was wearing my old Bell & Ross BR-03. He said "cool watch" and that was the extent of the discussion. I don't wear my Datejust because I want to feel like I'm a member of the "special club". I wear it because I like how it compliments the look of what clothes I am wearing. I wear a watch as an accessory and to express a mood. I wear my Tudor to work most often because I feel it is a great every day tool watch that states I am ready to tackle the next big job.

Actually come to think of it, there was one other time when someone commented on the watch I was wearing. I do remember one time I wore my noob mariner to a strip club and one dancer immediately thought that I should get a lap dance from her because with my Louis Vuitton wallet & Rolex that I was clearly wealthy enough to throw some cash her way.

Rolex does have a brand name and with that name comes a certain perception with some people, but I have never really had an interest in what other peoples opinion were about me (especially based on which watch I was wearing at the time).

[wiesn089]

For me, Rolex is for showing off, plain and simple.

They have made exceptional watches but technology wise they are nothing special. Just look at a 6263 Daytona, it's a fine watch but no (technical) feature justifies its premium compared to a Speedmaster, JLC, Heuer etc.

Rolex is one of the most recognizable brands in the world, everyone knows its expensive, everyone know it's an accomplishment to own one. Primarily it's not only about its durability (which is impressive), its craftsmanship (marvelous) but also about prestige. Everyone will know you spend a lot of money (whatever that is) on what you're wearing on your wrist once you're sporting a coronet. Try showing off a Patek, no one will care, no one will notice.

Rolex does make great watches, but rarely anyone owns one for that fact.

[Nanuq]

That's it, I don't like the tenor of this discussion so I'm locking it down!

Seriously, I think we need to distinguish between vintage and contemporary Rolex too.

I love vintage models because the domed crystal takes me back to bathyspheres and Cousteau and Jules Verne and Sealab and mini-subs with thick plastic portals. They remind me of a simpler era of being underwater and looking out through a bubble or a face shield at a different world.

Nowadays we have dive computers and ultra high-tech gear. Back then it was an engraved no-decomp table on your watch's bezel. Now the gear is supposed to compensate for your mistakes, back then you were expected to have some chops before you got wet. Sure the new stuff is nice, and some might see it as a status symbol. Expensive and flawless. So new Rolexes fit that mindset (IMHO). It's all about high tech.

Vintage models remind me of when diving was an acquired skill. Now you can get "certified" on a beach in an afternoon and the gear will save your bacon.

My buddy used to complain that he hated his SD crystal because he had to lick it to read it through all the scratches. The new flat sapphires aren't like that. To me, that captures the whole deal right there.

So yes, I like vintage Rolex because it's a heck of a tough watch. And I wouldn't wear a new, contemporary one if you gave it to me. Likewise, I don't like the vintage chronos because there's too much "stuff" that you don't need.

[Stephane]

All good points here.

I wanted to add that I have never been pointed for wearing a Rolex.

My GF wears my DJ since a couple of months, and though she didn't want to, because she thought "it's too much to wear a Rolex", she has not yet been asked about that watch.

So, when it comes to have comments because you wear a Rolex...I'm really wondering if it is not exagerated to think that it happens so often.

It's been almost 4 years now...and not a single comment

[Nanuq]

Well said, Stephane. I think if you're wearing a Rollie so people will think differently about you, you will have a long wait. Truly, who you "are" does not depend on what you "own".

A few times people have noticed mine, the most fun was when I happened across a traveling Rolex show, so I stepped in to look at the new models. I was oogling a Daytona and my sleeve slipped up a bit. The guy in charge of the show leaned closer, sucked in his breath, and said "My GOD, that's a RED!!"

I grinned at him. No biggie.

[krpster]

I wear what I like and could care less how I'm perceived by anyone who happens to notice my watch.

If you could care less then why don't you

A lot of good points here. Certainly brand loyalty comes into play as well. For example a family where the father say owns that vintage watch the son or daughter may be predisposed to also get a watch of the same brand. Or it may be bought for them as a gift. Thus perpetuating the loyalty to that brand, image vs quality or not. For whatever reason, Rolex seems to have obtained that high level of customer loyalty and people also view it as one of those time pieces that can be passed down for generations. Chalk it up to marketing I suppose.

As for visibility, people who own a particular brand / model will often notice it much more at large then they would any other item. Like redwatch I couldn't care less what people think of what I am wearing. And in fact I have had just as many comments, if not more, wearing other brands than Rolex. I'd say in a lot of cases how a watch appears visually has more to do with the attention it gets rather than the brand. Most people wouldn't even know where to look for the brand markings let alone see them or notice them at more than an arms length away.

At the end of the day I think many if not most or all (around here anyway) wear it because they "like it". Why we "like it" is very difficult to define and would probably take some significant psychological analysis. But there is no denying that at least to some extent it has to do with image. I'm sure faced with the choice of two identical WM9 subs, one with brand marking and one sterile, I would choose the marked one. How about you?

[freddy333]

For me, Rolex is for showing off, plain and simple.

They have made exceptional watches but technology wise they are nothing special. Just look at a 6263 Daytona, it's a fine watch but no (technical) feature justifies its premium compared to a Speedmaster, JLC, Heuer etc.

Rolex is one of the most recognizable brands in the world, everyone knows its expensive, everyone know it's an accomplishment to own one. Primarily it's not only about its durability (which is impressive), its craftsmanship (marvelous) but also about prestige. Everyone will know you spend a lot of money (whatever that is) on what you're wearing on your wrist once you're sporting a coronet. Try showing off a Patek, no one will care, no one will notice.

Rolex does make great watches, but rarely anyone owns one for that fact.

I think this just about says it all, at least for me. While I do appreciate Rolex's history & numerous (& noteworthy) technological accomplishments, at the end of the day, it all comes down to that ROLEX sig on the dial face. Were it otherwise, I would happily wear any number of copycat brands that equal Rolex's aesthetics, form & function for a fraction of what is printed on the Rolex price tag. And, truth be told, I think the same goes for the vast majority of Rolex-branded watch owners (rep or gen).

That's it, I don't like the tenor of this discussion so I'm locking it down!

Smart a$$ (I knew 1 of you wise guys would post this ).

Nowadays we have dive computers and ultra high-tech gear.

And that just solidifies the case even further.

Before the advent of cheap, reliable quartz-controlled dive computers, 1 could make the case that Rolex was the most reliable & accurate timepiece for diving (& other work-related endeavors where Rolex was widely accepted as THE 'tool' watch by adherents of those pursuits). But, today, no one that buys a SDDS can possibly claim the same thing (that the SDDS is the MOST reliable & accurate timepiece for diving). It is pure high-tech jewelry (with a good dose of technically inconsequential bling added to the mix) that no longer serves any real-world 'tool' purpose. And I think the only thing that keeps a watch like the SDDS from gathering dust on dealers' shelves is that ROLEX lettering on the dial. And, soon, even that may not be enough since the Big Watch fad faded some years ago.

[Member X]

For many people, a rolex will be a mark of something significant, such as a birthday or an event, in the same way that some people get tattoos - these people are the ones I think are nicest to know as, with them, there is a story behind the purchase that is interesting to find out

I think the worst type of rolex (or any 'brand' watch) is someone vacuous enough to buy it because he/she thinks it will impress people. These are the people who usually are the least impressive when you meet them because they are usually arrogant douchebags!

I've had quite an interesting journey with Rolex, myself - I always used to hate them as I thought they were only bought by the latter type of people, and were therefore not a watch that I wanted to own. Since learning about reps, I've realised the history behind them, and the fact that the vintage stuff is cool because it was simply designed to be a tool rather than a statement to the world about how much money (or credit...) you have. So, as above, I'm veering more towards vintage cool than blatant in your face modern stuff and the overdone (IMHO) black submariner.

That said, I have got the blue ceramic sub from BK because I wear a lot of blue and I love the fact it's different and I WILL have a BK YM when I have some cash! lol

Rolex really must be credited with being a good marketing company. The fact that they feel they can abandon their long time customers looking to service vintage gens worth $$$$$, just so that they can concentrate on maximising market share in what is, now, pretty much just a fashion industry, speaks volumes to me. I would therefore say that there are very few modern rolex that will increase in value the same way that the vintage ones have - after all, where's the story behind the modern DSSD? or a oversize DJ/DD? They are just marketing ploys that have come too late to the game now the big watch craze is fading. (Although perhaps they might discontinue the line with the result being that the oversize will be rare and valuable in the future? Who knows, I wouldn't bet on it though... lol)

So... I'm not sure where I'm going with this really but I would probably summarise by saying that Rolex now is about marketing over quality or practicality/fitness for purpose, and that they seem to be focusing on maximising profit now rather than pushing the boundaries forward for the long term benefit and advancement of the brand and watches in general. I think this will be to their long term detriment as, ultimately, people feel secure in knowing that if they ever were in a difficult financial situation, they could sell their Rolex for a price not far off what they paid. If every man and his dog has a rolex in the future, and they're not collectible in the same way as the vintage ones are now, the market will drop off and Rolex will become like a korean car manufacturer - capable but overpriced for the quality, and ultimately worth little in the secondhand market, therefore not something that a discerning buyer will want to purchase new.

[freddy333]

I think if you're wearing a Rollie so people will think differently about you, you will have a long wait.

I have to disagree. I wish it were not so, but, in the real world, that is exactly the way it works. And every time I see people quickly turning their heads away (in an obvious (but unsuccessful) attempt at avoiding being seen gawking at my Mystery-dialed DJ), this fact gets reinforced.

While few people will actually comment about a stranger's watch, I have come to learn that many (possibly most) people (at least men) do notice what we wear. And what we wear does affect what others think about us. Certainly, some are turned-off by a Rolex. But it is the Rolex-as-metaphor for money (or the display of it) that makes some queasy. And that is exactly the point that I think Rolex & its adherents (like me) want to promote. Now, of course, you can promote success quietly (with a small, understated watch that makes an occasional appearance from under a buttoned shirt sleeve) or loudly (with a BIG hunk of bling that cannot be missed with sleeves that are rolled-up to Mars). Sort of the old money vs Nouveau Riche (new money) thing.

[Nanuq]

That said, I have got the blue ceramic sub from BK because I wear a lot of blue and I love the fact it's different

You want something blue and different? You can't beat this gen for $750

[Nanuq]

Smart a$$ (I knew 1 of you wise guys would post this ).

I have to disagree. I wish it were not so, but, in the real world, that is exactly the way it works.

Alright dammit, where's that BAN button?

Sadly, I think you're right. People have perceptions of us, and usually do not share them. *smacks self on forehead*

[freddy333]

Sadly, I think you're right. People have perceptions of us, and usually do not share them. *smacks self on forehead*

Not to worry. If you read some of my early posts on TZ (pre-2001), you would find that my feelings on this subject have done a 180 in recent years. Ultimately, (real world) experience trumped my belief system. Keeping up with the Joneses is a strong drive (if you have not seen it, rent 'The Joneses', which novelizes this effect taken to the extreme).

[jmarin.72]

All good points here.

I wanted to add that I have never been pointed for wearing a Rolex.

My GF wears my DJ since a couple of months, and though she didn't want to, because she thought "it's too much to wear a Rolex", she has not yet been asked about that watch.

So, when it comes to have comments because you wear a Rolex...I'm really wondering if it is not exagerated to think that it happens so often.

It's been almost 4 years now...and not a single comment

I agree 100% here with Stephane.An if you happen to hear a comment in my opinion it would be "Hmm...this is a fake right?"

Doesn't sound too much of a comment for a "status symbol" IMHO.What i want to say is that with Rolex being the most replicated

brand in the whole world someone who wants to make a status statement should rather consider wearing another brand.

[Nanuq]

Not to worry. If you read some of my early posts on TZ (pre-2001), you would find that my feelings on this subject have done a 180 in recent years. Ultimately, (real world) experience trumped my belief system. Keeping up with the Joneses is a strong drive (if you have not seen it, rent 'The Joneses', which novelizes this effect taken to the extreme).

Hmmmmmmm. Interesting. I find I'm just the opposite, I tend to wear my gens to mess with people's minds. You can see it in their eyes, they're thinking "Good Gawd, here's this schmuck in a ratty t-shirt and shorts, on a mountain bike, and he's wearing a Double Red? It's gotta be a fake."

I'm good with that, I couldn't care less if they think it's a fake. Then the double-entendre hits when they eventually discover it's a gen, and they get another look in their eyes.

Hmmmmmmmmm, thinking twice about this, 99% of people wouldn't know that it's a gen... they couldn't identify one. So I'm running around convincing people I'm a schmuck!

I'm good with that.

[Nanuq]

I agree 100% here with Stephane.An if you happen to hear a comment in my opinion it would be "Hmm...this is a fake right?"

Doesn't sound too much of a comment for a "status symbol" IMHO.What i want to say is that with Rolex being the most replicated

brand in the whole world someone who wants to make a status statement should rather consider wearing another brand.

Which begs the question... Why doesn't Mercedes make a watch?

[jmarin.72]

Which begs the question... Why doesn't Mercedes make a watch?

Because TAG beat them to it

[Stephane]

I agree 100% here with Stephane.An if you happen to hear a comment in my opinion it would be "Hmm...this is a fake right?"Doesn't sound too much of a comment for a "status symbol" IMHO.What i want to say is that with Rolex being the most replicatedbrand in the whole world someone who wants to make a status statement should rather consider wearing another brand.

Oh yes, that is something I remember I heard once.

Totaly forgot about that comment.

I was at the footbal match watching my son playing as every week.

A father of another boy noticed I was wearing a new watch.

The guy said "cool one, is it gen?"

I replied "Well it doesn't really matter but if you like it, it's yours for 200

[Ronin]

I have to disagree. I wish it were not so, but, in the real world, that is exactly the way it works. And every time I see people quickly turning their heads away (in an obvious (but unsuccessful) attempt at avoiding being seen gawking at my Mystery-dialed DJ), this fact gets reinforced.

While few people will actually comment about a stranger's watch, I have come to learn that many (possibly most) people (at least men) do notice what we wear. And what we wear does affect what others think about us. Certainly, some are turned-off by a Rolex. But it is the Rolex-as-metaphor for money (or the display of it) that makes some queasy. And that is exactly the point that I think Rolex & its adherents (like me) want to promote. Now, of course, you can promote success quietly (with a small, understated watch that makes an occasional appearance from under a buttoned shirt sleeve) or loudly (with a BIG hunk of bling that cannot be missed with sleeves that are rolled-up to Mars). Sort of the old money vs Nouveau Riche (new money) thing.

I agree 100% here with Stephane.An if you happen to hear a comment in my opinion it would be "Hmm...this is a fake right?"

Doesn't sound too much of a comment for a "status symbol" IMHO.What i want to say is that with Rolex being the most replicated

brand in the whole world someone who wants to make a status statement should rather consider wearing another brand.

I am with Freddy333 on this one, and the thing to remember is context. If you live in a rural setting, vs a city setting, or wealthy area vs area hit by recession this is all moot. Honestly, in my neck of the woods the REP to GEN ratio actually favors more GEN's so the "it must be fake" comment is out of context in this case.

Most of the bartenders, waitresses, and staff at some places may not say anything, but many KNOW and NOTICE as well. Depending on the place this could be good or bad.

To answer the original question: BOTH, but leaning to status symbol.

Rolex is to watches as Apple is to Computer/Gadgets. I know more people toting Apple devices around as a status symbol, then watch wearers these days.

[freddy333]

Hmmmmmmm. Interesting. I find I'm just the opposite, I tend to wear my gens to mess with people's minds. You can see it in their eyes, they're thinking "Good Gawd, here's this schmuck in a ratty t-shirt and shorts, on a mountain bike, and he's wearing a Double Red? It's gotta be a fake."

Very true. Taking this 1 step further, you should see the looks I get sometimes when I walk past a group of appropriately rigged-out yuppies wearing my rattiest old clothes along with my Mystery as I slide into a M-B roadster & drive off. Talk about double-takes.

Hmmmmmmmmm, thinking twice about this, 99% of people wouldn't know that it's a gen... they couldn't identify one. So I'm running around convincing people I'm a schmuck!

I would not say schmuck, but there are probably alot of people up there wondering how your rep lasted long enough to look worn (since most 'civilians' have been brain-washed into believing that reps are all cheap, pieces of junk that rarely last long enough to be wound a 2nd time).

Which begs the question... Why doesn't Mercedes make a watch?

They do. In fact, M-B just sent me the fall catalog of Mercedes merchandise, which includes watches (all quartz)

[TeeJay]

Rolex is to watches as Apple is to Computer/Gadgets. I know more people toting Apple devices around as a status symbol, then watch wearers these days.

I read an article a while back which pretty much said that anyone who owned an iPad was an elitist douche, and anyone wanting to own one was just a wannabe

To address the point though, I would say that like Rolex (in the days of old) Apple products had a reputation for being very good for their intended purpose (ie graphics based applications) and 'the tool of professionals'. Having used an iPhone for almost two years, I can honestly say it was the most versatile piece of technology I have ever owned, and was a professionally required purchase, rather than purchassing a luxury item for 'bragging rights'. To say I'm desperate to get it fixed, is an understatemnt, as every day I am unable to use it, I realize just how useful it was as a tool (not even necessarily as a telephone) I think Rolex, like Apple, is a damned if you do, damned if you don't product. If someone is to wear a gen, someone is goingto think they are an elitist douche, and if someone wears a rep, someone else is going to think they're a wannabe. Sadly, there's not the option to say "I'm wearing a rep because I'm not prepared to buy the real thing, but I'm really not a poser, honest!" I think as mentioned above, the only important thing is to wear the watches we like, and forget what anyone else might be thinking, afterall, if they have a problem, they're the one with the problem

[JoJo35]

Interesting foray into the human psyche here. I find the whole "status symbol" idea the most intriguing, yet sadly pathetic. I think the real question is, who are the real elitist? ...us??? ...or them???