By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 A friend and a fellow forum member asked me if I wanted to have his almost brand spankin' new "Noobmariner" for free. He said that that he had liked my reviews and would like to see this watch reviewed and photographed by me as well. At first I thought that I couldn't accept the gift... but I've read Puggy's and other guys' reviews of this watch... so I couldn't resist. I was curious, to say at least. This same fellow, who is well known of his generosity among other members too, wants to remain anonymous. It wasn't the first time someone made me a favour here, but giving a watch for free to someone you have never met is quite exceptional. I try to refrain from advertising the the dealers in my reviews, but just for clarification: "Noobmariner" is the same watch that TTK sells for $100, and that's where this watch originally comes from. Since I praised PT in my last review it's only fair to give credit when credit is due: Neil deserves kudos for bringing bargains like this to our attention. Yes, you read it right: The price of the watch is $100. It has Asian automatic movement which oscillates at 21,600 BPH. Ziggy has never made an excessive breakdown and review of the basic 21J Asian Automatic, and I guess it would be too big of a generalization to put them all into the same basket. But Ziggy describes these movements in his Watch basics review: Most need no service, and overall are new and clean and well oiled. The sweep isn't as smooth as ETA, but honestly you have to look really close before you notice any difference (and preferably put the watches side-by-side). This was my first (but most likely not the last) basic Asian 21J-powered watch and I must say I'm impressed by the accuracy and sweep. If you consider that you can get these watches for half the price (compared to ETAs) I'd say these watches are superb value for money. And even if the movement fails for some reason, a swap to ETA ($60 from Ofrei) is a piece of cake to any watchsmith. So... what do you get for $100? You get excellent, accurate and high quality replica. It doesn't have any of the typical flaws that all standard Submariner reps had less than 12 months ago. It has shiny, metallic rehaut, smooth 120-click bezel, almost invisible etched crown on the crystal, hollow link Oyster bracelet, datewheel and cyclops placed correctly (not too right on the dial/crystal), sharp, almost flawless dial and a reasonable pearl. But the most impressive detail of this watch to me is the satin finish of the bracelet and lugs. The bracelet had sharp edges and I had to file them smoother, but the steel is very shiny and impressive. When you receive this watch be careful not to remove the finish with any abrasive material. Just polish it with car wax or some non-abrasive liquid. It's very impressive as it is. And like I said, the lugs and case have very nice, accurate look and feel as well. Year ago the crown guards would have been sensational, now they're just "reasonable". They're a bit too thick from the bottom as usual, but have the good "spiky" and pointy look. I'll definitely modify them myselfat some point, but I wanted to review the watch in "out of the box" condition. What about the "rehaut"... or the "case depth"? Oh yes indeedy... the rep nerds have wasted so much time arguing and nitpicking about the correct depth and look which, in all fairness, are usually wrong on most old Sub reps. Nitpicking and arguing about these microscopic differences is part of the fun... but to me the more important thing is the smooth, metallic look... rather than some 0.1mm difference in case depth. Like I said, most replica Submariners have it wrong. The crystal should "merge" smoothly with the case. This is a picture of my old CN Sub rehaut. Notice how the rehaut is "cut in half", not smooth and straight and looks like it's made of two different parts: For any normal people this is nothing but ridiculous nitpicking, but for us RWG Trekkie bastards these are just standard everyday topics: Here's the "Noobmariner" rehaut compared to the genuine. The difference in depth is minimal, but the crystal sits too low on the rep. The old "TW case" was the only one having it better (it was actually a bit too deep). There are a few new rep 16610 models which have improved in this department too. Despite having probably 0.1mm too low rehaut the smooth, straight and metallic look is what makes this watch shine. It looks "correct" and substantial on the wrist. Now, let's take a look at the arguably the "Best Sub" 18 months ago: This was my old "CN Sub" with modified crown guards and better pearl. The only thing that was quite accurate on this watch was the dial and winding crown. Actually the crown looks good, much better than on most current replicas (including the Noobmariner, I might add)... The rest looks fundamentally wrong: bracelet, case, cyclops too right, etc. etc. What feels funny now... only year and a half later... is that people were willing to pay $400 (or even $600) to modify these reps. Now we get a rep that's light years better for $100... in out-of-the box condition. Difficult to say which has improved more in 18 months though: the quality of the Sub reps... or my photographic skills (sorry for the lousy picture). Conclusion: I have owned so many Submariner reps that I've lost count. Not as many as Tribal (or Tanfoglio... God forbid...) but many nevertheless. I'm not sure if this is the "Best Sub", I'll leave that debate for the Sub Trekkies. But I think it's safe to say this is at least very close to that title in completely unmodified condition. The pearl isn't great and the cg's aren't perfect, the winding crown is a bit too thick. But these are easy mods, the watch has a "good feel and look" (as described earlier) and EXCELLENT dial which are the most important things to me. The only thing that really makes the rep look visually inferior next to the genuine is the difference in luminous abilities. Noobmariner has typical, weakish replica lume. But then again the only unmodified rep watch that I've seen with even remotely impressive lume has been the Omega 4th Gen Planet Ocean. This review was really special and lots of fun to put together, due to the nature of this watch. Thanks again to the kind person who gave this gift to me (you know who you are). I'm not the biggest fan of the basic 16610 Rolex Submariner anymore (and I actually prefer the no-date), but you can't deny the appeal and history of this watch. Everyone should own one, and this watch being a gift, it's obviously a permanent mainstay in my collection. No matter what they'll improve in the future, I'm quite sure this will always be good enough for me. And once again... what really impresses me about this watch is the price: Like I said, it's completely ridiculous at $100! Now let me see... you get an automatic watch, visually 96% Rolex rep with high quality feel and finish for the price of a friggin' plastic Casio! Call the Bobbies, the noobs are spoiled... and the Chinese are taking over! PS: Will they suspect it's a rep? Of course they will, it says "Rolex" on the dial, doesn't it? Put it in a genuine box and they'll have a hard time believing it when you tell them. Thanks for reading. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Great breakdown and review! The bracelet and dial on the noobmariner are so good that I decided to use them in my 16610 frankenstein... http://www.rwg.cc/members/uploads/remoteim...31011-19253.jpg http://www.rwg.cc/members/uploads/remoteim...31011-19254.jpg For the money, the complete watch is a bargain... But the dial and bracelet especially stand out on this watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 fantastic read, great review, guess i gotta order one of those now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks guys. Yes, I have a genuine looking pearl ready for my Noobmariner. I think I'll do the cg's as well (eventually). Not because I think they're "essential" mods for this watch... but just for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Great review, enjoy the watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 As always By-Tor superb review! JTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 thank you so much ! superb review ! just 2 questions : is the glass sapphire ? and how is the timekeeping ? thx Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 thank you so much ! superb review ! just 2 questions : is the glass sapphire ? and how is the timekeeping ? thx Frank Thanks guys. Funny... good question. I didn't even think about the glass. I went to Neil's sales thread and he describes it "synthetic sapphire". The crystal looks and feels exactly similar as on the other reps I've had (that have genuine sapphire glass)... and much smoother on the surface than my MBW and Seamaster plastic glasses. Is there an easy way to tell? The timekeeping is probably something that you'd except: In the +/- 15 range (haven't measured it though). I can do it if you absolutely need to know. I'm not anal about the accuracy but it hasn't lost a minute in 24 hours... that much I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRG Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Great review and great watch , I'm still waiting for mine to arrive .... the wait is killing me! How long does it take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Bytor....excellent review which I share 100%. I recently bought a ttk noobmariner for my better half and when it arrived, I was very impressed, so impressed in fact, that I ordered another one within the hour. When you compare and judge reps, it is usually imperative to keep the price in mind. Just like a Rabbit GTI will not compare to a Porsche, a 100$ rep usually does not stand up to a "Swiss blabla" for 400$. Not in this case tough.... The noobmariner looks and feels like an expensive watch and the differences to the real deal are so miniscule, that 99,9% of the population will not see them when the watch is on your wrist. Put them side by side and someone with good knowledge about reps will see it.... but just how realistic is that in a normal day? I had a friend over for dinner, who wears a gen 16610. I looked at both and from other side of the table, they looked both alike. He noticed nothing. The movement - even though we know it is "just" an asian J21, has been as accurate (if not better) as my ETA's and if you're not the hardcore freak who uncases his reps every day...what the hell. Pugwash has popped the back of his noobmariner and the movement is ....ugly...but again...who cares? The running gag on all three boards I'm on is the famous "....who has the best sub?".... noob question. My answer is clear... it's ttk's noobmariner. I have yet to see a better rep value for money... because at the end of the day... even the beautiful MBW's, which cost four to six times the money .... are only fake watches. ....the only problem is... if now everyone orders a ttk noobmariner...they will take even longer to arrive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Great review as always. I have the same one, well at least i did until gf saw it and said thats a nice watch it`s just the one i want. So yes, she has it on her wrist and it looks verry pretty too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Great review By-Tor... You are right it's a great watch for the money.... Thats the same watch,like my MBW 1B only the etamovement makes the difference... Only thing is the clasp of the bracelet that is not good constructed... But hey,this one is a step forward tobecome the perfect Sub... Many thanks for the review.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Excellent words and pics, as usual. It's great that you got this watch and was able to do such a decent review. Like I've always said, this is the Sub to get if you're new. Bang for buck, TTK delivers on this one. I've had mine since I started in the rep game (feb/march 2006?) and it still gets wrist time. It keeps great time and still looks good. Shocking, shocking value. If you don't have one, even if you don't like Rolexes, you should get this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Excellent review and pictures By Tor!!! it is certainly the best bang for the buck and very easily upgradable! (one pearl + -maybe- an ETA movm't) Wear it well my friend! Cheers Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miquel Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 I was just thinking last night about ordering a 16610. HNow you have sealed my fate! Thanks By-Tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Shhh. He'll put the price up!! Anyhoo, kind of vindicates my campaign to support the 21J Asia movement in these. My Asia Planet Ocean has the same movement and there it doesn't even give the game away WRT beat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Bytor....excellent review which I share 100%. I recently bought a ttk noobmariner for my better half and when it arrived, I was very impressed, so impressed in fact, that I ordered another one within the hour. When you compare and judge reps, it is usually imperative to keep the price in mind. Just like a Rabbit GTI will not compare to a Porsche, a 100$ rep usually does not stand up to a "Swiss blabla" for 400$. Not in this case tough.... The noobmariner looks and feels like an expensive watch and the differences to the real deal are so miniscule, that 99,9% of the population will not see them when the watch is on your wrist. Put them side by side and someone with good knowledge about reps will see it.... but just how realistic is that in a normal day? I had a friend over for dinner, who wears a gen 16610. I looked at both and from other side of the table, they looked both alike. He noticed nothing. The movement - even though we know it is "just" an asian J21, has been as accurate (if not better) as my ETA's and if you're not the hardcore freak who uncases his reps every day...what the hell. Pugwash has popped the back of his noobmariner and the movement is ....ugly...but again...who cares? The running gag on all three boards I'm on is the famous "....who has the best sub?".... noob question. My answer is clear... it's ttk's noobmariner. I have yet to see a better rep value for money... because at the end of the day... even the beautiful MBW's, which cost four to six times the money .... are only fake watches. ....the only problem is... if now everyone orders a ttk noobmariner...they will take even longer to arrive.... Great review. A word on the 21J.. I have a gen 5513 and to be honest, the hand sweep more closely resembles a 21J than it does an ETA movement. I also have a 21J on my Omega GMT/SMP... now don't get me wrong, I love my 5513, but quite honestly the omega keeps as good or better time. From my very limited experience the 21J is a great bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowHat Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Great review, By-Tor! Thanks for the insights! Looks like the TTK 16610 makes the wish list! YH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 can anybody confirm that this is the same sub, that EL (with ETA) and Trusty sells ? they look the same to me .... thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 I believe it to be the same actual watch... The only difference is that Neil hand picks his and runs some extra QC prior to selling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 @Ubi.....I don't think they come from the same factory.....I do believe there is a difference....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks for the review, BT. You always spend alot of time and thought on your writeups. I will, however, have to disagree with your comments on rehaut depth. The rehaut on this watch is very thin compared to the gen. I don't know if the actual difference is 0.1mm, and I doubt that it is, but it is very noticeable. You poke fun at the sub nerds for obsessing over rehaut, but it is in fact the most eye catching detail, because it is really the one detail you can spot on the wrist from a distance. I see fakes ALL the time out in public and use the rehaut to spot them. If I see a watch with deep rehaut, I generally assume it to be real because there are SO many shallow fakes out there and because it's extremely difficult or impossible to see other details without grabbing the watch off the person's wrist!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 I believe it to be the same actual watch... The only difference is that Neil hand picks his and runs some extra QC prior to selling... I believe it to be the same watch, also. I have a non-functional TTK version (movement is broken) that I bought used from a forum member for the dial and the datewheel (planning to follow Ubi's lead in creating a Franken), and I have a brand new TWG version.... They sure look identical to me side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Fantastic post, excellent write up, comparisons, and pictures. At $100 you can't go wrong... Thanks, RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRG Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Neil, please put me out of my misery, when will I see mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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