_brian_ Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Long story short: Well known watchmaker FxrAndy, who is even a moderator here, told me he can source a movement which he described as "this is a Genuine TAG new Calibre 16 chronometre movement" for 300 Euros. As FxrAndy made the movement swap in my TH Carrera too and also sourced new Tag Heuer hands, I paid to him 469,50 Euros (movement 300,- Euros, new Tag Heuer Carrera hands 49,50 Euros, AR 60,- Euros and service costs 60,- Euros). After I received some fotos of the completed watch work I even asked FxrAndy: "can you please confirm that the rep movement was swapped with a gen TH new calibre 16 movement?" The answer was:"yes brian i can confirm that i have swapped the movememnts". This is the movement I received in the watch: And this how a genuine Tag Heuer Carrera movement called Calibre 16 looks like: As you can see, there are two blue screws in the movement I received (Nr. 1 - under the plate, small part of the screw head can be seen - and 2), so this obviously NOT a gen Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement. The color of the part under Nr. 3 is also wrong. The geneve stripes are completely different from gen (Nr. 4) and the screw heads look the wrong size (Nr. 5), whereas there are also some small scratch marks on the heads. I contacted a well known TH "expert" on rwi and he also told me that it's not a genuine Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement. After complaining about the movement FxrAndy took it back and sent me all the watch parts back without assembly (as I asked) and 300,- Euro. As I cannot use the hands without the movement neither and I have doubts that they are gen hands, I asked FxrAndy about taking them back too, but he refused to do so. In the end I suggested to FxrAndy to make a compromise by refunding at least also the service costs but he refused this too. I do not like to write all this and make a rep forum members nick public. However I beleive it's not the right way of doing watch service and I also did everything I could in order to avoid to make this public. I contacted FxrAndy several times and also moderators on different forums, but I'm still waiting for getting back at least the service costs. For me it looks like that someone tried to scam a fellow forum member and even wants to get paid for it. In private pms I was assured that it's not fair to keep the service costs but if someone has a different view or I miss something, please let me know about it. I think it's also a good story for noobs, as I really did not expect from an established member with over 10.000 posts that he would sell a movement as gen - which was obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocram Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I've had just positive transactions with Andy and I am pretty sure he won't risk his reputation for a few Euros. Maybe there are different versions of the movement out there? Maybe Andy got scammed himself while ordering that movement? This will get sorted, but I think Andy doesn't do anything wrong. At least I hope so. Sorry, I don't know anything about Tag. But I know the way Andy works. Sent from my iPhone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 It looks fine to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzenuub Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Did you contact Admin of this board about this yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I must admit mate... I really cant accept that you were scammed in any sense of the word by Andy... I have found him to be nothing but the most honest of guys .... I do not know enough about the C16s except they are a 7750 just like a Breiting C11 I think it is... but my first question would be.. Are there versions of the TAG C16 since I think these go back 30 years or so... regardless though... I am sure, now this has been posted... Andy will provide his side..(if thats the right word) of whats passed... Either way sorry to hear of your disappointment mate... but I am certain its not what you are suggesting.. I am still not sure why... given Andy's unarguably standing on this forum ... why this has been posted and most especially with the aspersions being made... surely this is an admin matter first and foremost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 This is a long time, honorable member of the boards. Perhaps it is gen. Perhaps during the swap, some flame blued parts bin screws were swapped, who knows? It doesn't seem very smart (or profitable) to try to pass rep movements off to a forum full of rep specialists. The one single solitary pic you provided of the mvmt is so flash-soaked, it's hard to make any conclusion (for instance in the cdg). Under the balance, is there ETA markings? Are those screws even blue, or is that dark color due to the exposure? More than one nicely exposed picture of key areas of the movement would go a lot further to prove your case. Your making a very serious accusation that puts a members credibility on the line. My advice would be to provide more information (pictures) as soon as possible. Until then my honest opinion is you got a little ahead of yourself posting such harmful accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I must admit mate... I really cant accept that you were scammed in any sense of the word by Andy... I have found him to be nothing but the most honest of guys .... I do not know enough about the C16s except they are a 7750 just like a Breiting C11 I think it is... but my first question would be.. Are there versions of the TAG C16 since I think these go back 30 years or so... +1 And by knowing FxrAndy personally (IRL) I know he would NEVER put his reputation at stake for a couple of €.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I don't see the need for posting this on every forum before trying to work it out with the Admin here, where the alleged scam activity took place. I don't think that one picture is going to convince anyone that it's not gen. Anyway, it'll be interesting to hear the other side of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 +1 And by knowing FxrAndy personally (IRL) I know he would NEVER put his reputation at stake for a couple of €.. +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzenuub Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I don't see the need for posting this on every forum before trying to work it out with the Admin here, where the alleged scam activity took place. I don't think that one picture is going to convince anyone that it's not gen. Anyway, it'll be interesting to hear the other side of the story. + a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Scope Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I just had a great transaction with Andy.I do not think it makes sense that he would send you a pic of a rep movement If he was trying to scam you. I am sure this will be cleared up. I think I would wait for a response from a Admin before posting this. Just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojjben Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 As written on another forum, I have only good experiences with Andy. There has to be a flipside on your coin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 This has been discussed within the Admin area...maybe Brian should acquaint himself with who is actually on the team .....and I assure you all there is a lot more about this than the OP has written. Still this is not for me to post up but I will point (our very much valued team member) Andy to this thread so he can give you the full details of what went down here. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_brian_ Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Did you contact Admin of this board about this yet? Yes, of course I contacted moderators here and on other rep forums too. As I mentioned I tried everything I could in order to avoid to make this public. I have more pictures of the movement, which is 100% not a gen TH Calibre 16. On the following picture there is the blue screw on the upper side (Nr. 2 on the first pic): Here is a better picture of the geneve stripes: Here is one more foto of the gen movement: The Tag Heuer Calibre 16 movement did not and does not have any blue screws. All the other details are wrong, except the rotor. It seems like a sort of franken movement with gen rotor, but it is not a gen Calibre 16 movement - otherwise Andy would not have taken it back. The only issue here is the question regarding the service costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_brian_ Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 One more thing: Anyone, who is interested in the whole conversation with Andy, please let me know, I will send it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Ok lets get some facts out here.... Three points... 1)Andy did not lume his dial the gen is not lumed, Brian knows so much about the watch and the brand that he did not even know if the gen had lume or not. 2)Andy removed the movement complete and refunded the money (€300) that he paid for that, but unless he can prove that the movement is not a tag cal 16 then i do not wish to refund any more 3)He now wants the labor cost back which include the removing and fitting crystals and wr testing (which is complete and fitted in his case) and a lot of running round to find his parts Personally I think the Op has a lot to answer for. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I found this picture and it looks like a old version of the same movement with an update Rotor http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tag+calibre+16+picture&view=detail&id=25B1F45AC1264D1C2E9BFA02CF4B7469F34F85E0&first=0&qpvt=tag+calibre+16+picture&FORM=IDFRIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I sold brian a movemewnt that was sold to me as a Tag heuer Cal 16 by a very trusted source, I did the work for brian but before Brian had even recieved the watch back he was questioning the movement as he belived the Dental Polishing and stripes were wrong, When he recieved it he was not happy due to the 2 blued screws and him questioning the authenticity of the movement so with out further question i asked him to send it back and on his request i removed the movement and refunded him the money that he paid for it and send it back to him. a few days later brian then said that he wanted the money back for the work which included removing and fitting crystals for AR and the run about trying to get a set of gen hands which is not the easyest of things to do as i am sure you all know. My responce was that if brian could indicate why he thought that the movement was not gen (bar the admittedly 2 blued screws) then he would have a case. This was also the case when he asked another moderator to mediate. If when my mistake by not spotting the two screws had been pointed out politly i would have more than likely made good the screws and discounted the work that i had done with a refund and a masive appology on my part. But as the coments were less than polite and with no evidence and grounding other than what sounded to me like buyers remorse then i was less than accomodating. Also if this has been posted on all other boards WHY when the transaction was on this one, secondly offering the PMs to any one who would want to see them is also not a nice thing to do as it is a personal measage, but if people want to read them please let them, they may well laugh when they read how you asked me to lume the dial as the gen (gen has no lume on the dial) Guys if you all find that i have scammed brian i will pay him his €60 it wont break my bank, I did refund him with out question the cost of the movement and do the rest of the work and postage with out asking for a penny, i have not argued with brian as i dont do that. But bear in mind that the €60 was not just for fitting the movement but for AR fitting and removal and lot of running round to get a gen hand set. And still I belive that that is a Tag heuer Cal 16 that happend to have two blued screws in it. if any one cares to do the reaserch there are more varients of the Cal 16 than you may think and they all come off ETA production lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I found this picture and it looks like a old version of the same movement with an update Rotor http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tag+calibre+16+picture&view=detail&id=25B1F45AC1264D1C2E9BFA02CF4B7469F34F85E0&first=0&qpvt=tag+calibre+16+picture&FORM=IDFRIR That would be the non Chronometer version of the Cal 16 without decoration Oh and can some one send a link to the other boards threads to me so that i can respond on them all please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzenuub Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 At RG thread was edited and closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 That would be the non Chronometer version of the Cal 16 without decoration Oh and can some one send a link to the other boards threads to me so that i can respond on them all please You are correct Sr. apparently they are different variations http://www.bing.com/...ure&FORM=IDFRIR http://www.replicarolexeta.com/watchpicture/replicaTagHeuerwatch057007.jpg I am not really a Tag Expert so I can not comment on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Just a bit of info for you all Just so that you have no doupt and maybe a bit of education. A tag Heuer Cal 16 is nothing more than a some times ( chronometer grade 7750 with decoration made by ETA a division of the swatch group who Tag are also a part in this picture you have from left to right top row, A longines (part of swatch croup) Cal 678, A 2008 Tag Cal 16, A standard 7750 next row is and asian 7750 cal 16 taken from Brians watch individual photos in same order also from ciborgmans post A non chronometer non decoarated cal 16 Now your watch Taken by me before i sent it to Brian for him to see I confirmed this is the new cal 16, by trusting the person who sells them to me. by looking at numerous images on the internet and looking at numerous watches at ADs you may also want to compare with the new asian cal 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_brian_ Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 "i removed the movement and refunded him the money that he paid for it and send it back to him. a few days later brian then said that he wanted the money back for the work which included removing and fitting crystals for AR and the run about trying to get a set of gen hands which is not the easyest of things to do as i am sure you all know." Let's get the facts right: On the 9th of June I gave Andy my bank details and sent the following pm after Andy refused to take back the hands: "Ok, I understand that you do not want to have the hands back. I cannot use them without a gen movement neither. The 60 € for labor is also compeletely useless for me as the watch is not completed in any way. I cannot see why I should pay for both of these. Let's settle the case and refund the movement+labor costs, which are together 360 €. On the other side I will keep the hands and you can have what I paid for it, even if the hands are no use for me." This message was ignored by Andy. The following day Andy sent me the watch parts back and after five days the 300 Euro refund arrived. I had the following pm on the 14th of June: "The 300 € for the movement arrived, but you forgat to refund the labor costs, which are 60 €. I do not want to make your nick with this transaction public or leave negative feedback, even if I still feel [censored] off. When the labor costs refund arrives, this case is settled for me." This message was also ignored by Andy. BTW this is how the movement was described to me on the 4th of May: "€300 for the movement and it has silver polished screws just like you want,, not cheep but dont forget this is a Genuine TAG new Calibre 16 chronometre movement and you pay over 400 for a standard new non decorated 7750 that is a good price" After I received the watch and made my complaints about the movement Andy wrote to me: "Yes it does have one blued screw, i admit, and that is the way i got it." It's strange that both of the blue screws are under other movement parts so they cannot be seen or changed easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 At RG thread was edited and closed. Got a link i cant find it Dont worry i found it thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Dont forget brian that while i was ignoring your PMs i was sailing in the baltic sea and i had that written in my sigature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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