Nanuq Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'm almost ready to post the photo from TZ ... as a "look what I found!" comment. I wonder if that would force his hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hehehehe, crazy [censored] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Nanuq - Unless you post on TZ under a different handle, I do not think I would cross-post. At least not yet. Your current post seems perfectly innocent because you were responding to someone else's question. But I think if you begin a new thread on TZ the same day you posted on the other site, especially after seeming to admit that you may have made a mistake, it would seem a bit suspicious. However, if, as I suspect, other posters begin to disagree with conrail's assumptions & things get contentious, then, if you fail to repost, I am certain that someone else will. I would be very interested to see Dowlng's reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 There are too many gen details in those pics for a knowledgeable collector to dismiss everything, which is why I suspect the 1st responder is more of a novice. Certainly, if I saw those 2 pics, the 1st thing I would do is look at the small details (which is where reps/frankens nearly always fall flat). How many reps/frankens have you seen of a Turn-O-Graph Deluxe? How many folded-link jubilee bracelets? How many riveted gold Oyster rep bracelets with the correct polished center links (matte edge links) & dents (that do not reveal the underlying base metal) have you seen? How many DJ Mystery dials? etc. etc. With those types of details, I would certainly call the GMT a gen (which it mostly is). Oh I agree absolutely, only a fool would consider those watches as anything other than the pieces of art which they quite rightly are, and given the amount of gen components in each, well, it's the same old discussion we've had many a time about what would happen to gens which, due to lack of available Rolex-Issue spares, eventually being repairs with aftermarket parts. Okay, so your pieces got to that point from the other direction, but it's ultimately a Ship of Theseus debate, and I would certainly consider them as 'the real deal'. What I was referring to, was more the herd mentality of "Someone's made a comment about reps, I'll jump on that bandwagon..." Definitely be interesting to hear how the thread plays out On a similar, if unrelated note, do you know any sources for the small arrow GMT hand which would fit on an Asian GMT movement? I seem to remember yours (or one you had in the past) was self-made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 No, TeeJay. I wish I did. That is why both JoeyB & I had to manufacture them out of other hands, which is alot of work. Hang on.................I cannot remember whether it had a small tipped GMT hand or not, but 1 of our sellers is now offering a quite reasonable 6542 rep. Let me take a look around & get back to you on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 No, TeeJay. I wish I did. That is why both JoeyB & I had to manufacture them out of other hands, which is alot of work. Hang on.................I cannot remember whether it had a small tipped GMT hand or not, but 1 of our sellers is now offering a quite reasonable 6542 rep. Let me take a look around & get back to you on that. That would be fantastic, thanks I seemed to remember something about needing to solder the tip on, and couldn't remember how it related to the size of the mounting ring of the hand for the movement's pinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 It was not 1 of our sellers, but here is the watch With a bit of enhanced patination for the dial (it might also benefit from reluming), hands & case, 1 of JoeyB's inserts & a Yuki bracelet & you have a pretty respectable '42. And, according to their description, this watch comes with a slow-beat 2846, so you would not need to do any of the GMT component transplants I had to do. The hand I built for my Phase 1 '42 was a true Frankenstein & it was all soldered together with silver solder (& alot of COLD sweat). The center ring came from a 1675 GMT hand, the center wand came from a generic hand (the 1675 wand was too thick) & the tip came from 1 of MY's aftermarket GMT hands (made to fit a 103x movement). Had the rep above been available back then, I could have saved myself ALOT of time, money & effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 On a similar, if unrelated note, do you know any sources for the small arrow GMT hand which would fit on an Asian GMT movement? I seem to remember yours (or one you had in the past) was self-made... How big a rush are you in? I am pursuing having the small arrow manufactured, so far no luck, but I won't quit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Nanuq - I think it may be time to post this link in response to conrail's comments. A completely innocent 'Is this where you saw those pics before?' Not only should that stir things up, but it would automatically link TZ into the fun without your having to risk suspicion by starting a new thread over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 It was not 1 of our sellers, but here is the watch With a bit of enhanced patination for the dial (it might also benefit from reluming), hands & case, 1 of JoeyB's inserts & a Yuki bracelet & you have a pretty respectable '42. And, according to their description, this watch comes with a slow-beat 2846, so you would not need to do any of the GMT component transplants I had to do. The hand I built for my Phase 1 '42 was a true Frankenstein & it was all soldered together with silver solder (& alot of COLD sweat). The center ring came from a 1675 GMT hand, the center wand came from a generic hand (the 1675 wand was too thick) & the tip came from 1 of MY's aftermarket GMT hands (made to fit a 103x movement). Had the rep above been available back then, I could have saved myself ALOT of time, money & effort. That's absolutely fantastic, thanks for the links I wasn't planning on doing a 6542, but had a vague project idea for a customized version of 'something similar', which might look like a 50's Original of the GMTIIC. My main issues were wether to go for something 'transitional' between the 6542 and the 1675, or something more accurate to the 6542 specs The work on the hand is fantastic, and another example of why your pieces are the pieces of art which they are How big a rush are you in? I am pursuing having the small arrow manufactured, so far no luck, but I won't quit! Absolutely no rush whatsoever, I'm just mulling over a potential project, and what would give the best results for what I had in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 This is the 1st time in 10 years of following gen fora that I have seen such a provocative post elicit effectively no response even though at least 30 forum members have viewed it. I have a feeling there is alot of offline conversation going on, which will lead to some serious bandwidth being used over this tonight or tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 So, I have to believe among our admin ranks we have 'technically' minded people who could: 1.) Query VRF (since they openly post IP addresses) 2.) Cross reference the Logs here at RWG ...and thereby identify users on the Gen formus VRF+TRF and RWG. Extracting the data from VRF would be easy, and a simple Pearl script to tear through the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hmmm... A cross reference of "troublesome" people from VRF/TRF might be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Really, in the end, aren't these all just wristwatches? It's fun over there, or I should say it was fun, posting up the photos of my gens. I got a lot of nice comments but it's dawning on me that it's mostly about "look at my new watch!" over there. That's fine and all, but in this place we get to talk about things like soldering up parts to make our own GMT hands. And minute details like the contour of a 6542 crystal retaining ring. That's my cuppa tea. I guess that's why I'd rather drive an ancient Rover instead of a sparkly new one... I'd much rather be able to completely disassemble it, fabricate new parts, and rebuild it again. That makes it "mine". I like that. It was fun and all, there's lots of fine people over there, but I think I'm home here with you lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well said. But I think it also has to be said that, here, gens & reps are all treated equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well said. Everyone is somewhere on a learning curve. I started out with an LCD watch that showed analog hands and I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Lots of newbies are learning and refining their tastes and turning to gens... some are developing the skills to fabricate parts from scratch. We're all learning, hopefully with no end in sight. It would be shocking to find someone in our corner of the watch world being ostracized because his watch didn't meet some artificial standard. That kind of snob is not welcome here. Nobody here is enough of an expert to look down his nose at anyone else. Period. There will always be someone smarter than me, with better watches. It's a humbling thought, one well learned. In the end, there's a huge variety of watches out there, because we're a huge variety of consumers. I'd hate to have to own one of your newer Daytonas (all due respect) but I'd love to wear a Jean Claude Killy especially if I'd been able to replace the crystal and crown myself. Truth be told, I'd rather have your Phase-2 6542 with a black gilt dial than my all original 1964 GMT with the radial dial. And the custom "dual date" feature! Life is short. Enjoy the day Freddy. Now where did I put those BSC fasteners? My exhaust manifold is leaking. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I'd much rather be able to completely disassemble it, fabricate new parts, and rebuild it again. That makes it "mine". I like that. There is something here for everyone (well, except Onze's boobie pics) from genuine to replica and everything in between. And as freddy said, all are respected. Whether you love a full blown franken, or love a budget build, the work done by people here is higher quality than the finest watch makers in the world. Think about the builds we've seen here by people who do not have the resources or machinery or a team of experts that world class watchmakers do have, and even experts can't tell if it's a replica. Only we can. It's amazing stuff, to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 They linked the pics to rwg? That aint good right? Isent this against forum rules to post reps on gen forums? Im just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Yes that is against forum rules. And every part of Freddy's watches is genuine. So....... is it a replica? In my mind, no more than my vintage Land Rover, with every piece from the front bumper to the back replaced with genuine Rover parts, or aftermarket if no more parts are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 True! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Nanuq is exactly correct. The watch in question was constructed (with the exception of the insert) out of gen parts, which is why we got a bit carried away. And, for that, I think we are all sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabularasa415 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 hahaha... I'm a member on the gen forums, and actually do quite a bit of buying and selling. I feel like a double agent, but reading some posts that other members make on the gen forums... well, it sounds like some of the members I see around here ::looking around:: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well, the thread didn't play out quite as I predicted, but I certainly got an interesting read out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispytonyv Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sigh, very poorly handled. I feel like a new member would have been banned for these shenanigans... aside from the broken rules, it just perpetuates the stereotype of rep owners as fake / shady people out to pull a fast one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sigh, very poorly handled. I feel like a new member would have been banned for these shenanigans... aside from the broken rules, it just perpetuates the stereotype of rep owners as fake / shady people out to pull a fast one. Totally disagree... A joke's a joke, this one clearly crossed a line and didn't quite fly, but so what? No one was saying "check out my new 'lex, I'm teh awesome!" No one was saying "who wants to buy this super-rare edition?" and naming a price. While there are some who say it's bad that gen owners know how good reps can be, I actually think it's good that they see watches looking identical to theirs which were a fraction of the cost. Let's not forget here, that Freddy's watches are built from genuine parts. They are as 'real' as the watches the gen owners circlejerk over, the only difference being that he has the skill to build his himself, all they can do, is slap down a credit card... anyone can do that I think it's good that it puts their noses out of joint and knocks them off their pedestals, it lets them know that not just people with fat wallets can have nice stuff too. If there's one trait I really cannot stand in others, it is elitism, and I'm never sorry to see an elitist put in their place. If that makes me a bad person, so be it, I'll get my comeuppance when the Lord feels it's my time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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